msnowman

We have a local builder who saves his scrapwood and puts it out in a trailer along the side of the road for anybody to take. There are plenty of scraps in his cast offs that we have been able to use. Perhaps you have a local builder who would save his scrap for you?

YiS

Michelle

Brent - I saw the comment you mentioned and share your view. To specifically target "Cub Scout Yellow Shirts" is extremely sexist as its only female Cub Scout Leaders can wear the yellow blouse.

I think Scouting would look a lot different if it was started in today's world. One of those differences (IMHO) would be making it co-ed. I'm not saying that is necessarily the best idea, just that it would prolly be how Scouts would look if they started now. I think you'd also see more Technology based skill requirements and less Nature based requirements. However, that doesn't mean that the program as it exists now is without merit. Without a place to learn about the outdoors and people to teach them, many boys would never leave their bedrooms, tv sets, video games.

YiS

Michelle

I appreciate everybody's insight as it has given us various angles from which to examine this.

TRLarue - The question wasn't really whether we could count one event twice. It was "does a 1 day Council run Cub Scout Outdoor Event meet the spirit of the "attend day camp" part of the "Attend Cub Scout Day Camp OR Cub Scout/Webelos Scout Resident Camp" requirement"?

The leaders want to do what is best & fair for new the boy, while staying fair to the other boys, so it isn't a question of being interested in bending rules or tweaking requirements for this one child. It is more of a question of "would we be cheating him out of something he has earned by doing this activity?".

YiS

Michelle

Thanks for the replies. This scout is a first year Bear. He joined us in September and has made great strides (earned his Bobcat at the Sept Pack meeting, gung-ho in activities, active mom, etc.). He and mom spent the night Friday night, in spite of high winds and driving rains (ah, Maine in the Fall...a few degrees cooler and it would have been snow) and took part in all of the activities Saturday. He was the only first year Scout who spent the night - all the others came up on Saturday only.

YiS

Michelle

There is some debate atm in our Pack over what would constitute Cub Scout day camp. We had a new boy join our Pack in September, so he missed regular CS day camp. However, this weekend he is participating in a Council run day long Cub Scout outdoor activity which included a family overnight last nite.

Does a single day long Council event/family overnight meet the spirit of CS day camp? One of his leaders thinks it should count, the other has their doubts. (I'm neither, so I'm not entitled to an opinion but was asked for my thoughts...I'm still unsure).

YiS

Michelle

I just read the on-line version of the G2SS from the BSA website - the night time driving is a "should" not a "must" -

"7. All driving, except short trips, should be done in daylight."

Good thing - like other northern groups we would continuously be in violation of the G2SS. Nephew came home from a Camporee at the other end of the state - 4 hour drive, got home at 11pm....lots of night driving there.

YiS

Michelle

Nephew made his in a zippered pencil bag...the kind the elementary school children would put inside their 3 ring binder. It doesn't fit in his pocket but it sure does travel well in his day pack, backpack, notebook, etc.

If you are looking for something small that will fit in a pocket and hold a couple of band-aids I'd suggest the snack size zip lock baggies.....or how about the tube that M&M Mini's come in?

Hmmmm....I like that idea....I'll have to write that down for Readyman. lol

YiS

Michelle

Last year we had a pair of twins share a partner (in this case their Dad). I see no reason why two Tigers can't share an adult partner. However - unless it has changed just recently, for someone other than the custodial parent (non-custodial parent, guardian, aunt, uncle, etc) to be a Tiger adult partner they have to fill out an Adult leader application, seperate from the boy app. Granted, I haven't actually read this year's boy app, but in the years past there was a note on the application that said non-custodial adults had to fill out the adult app.

YiS

Michelle

I am Nephew's den leader for the group he is DCing for. I'm not going on this family camping trip because I'm away that weekend. We aren't going as a den, it is not a Webelos overnighter, it is a Family camping trip that a few of the families have signed up to go on. One of the Pack adults who is going is our Baloo trained ACM. I'm not sure who else is going from the Pack but do know that at least 3 Cub/Guardian pairs are going. Getting him there won't be an issue as any of the adults would be willing to drive him.

Thanks

YiS

Michelle

To avoid threadjacking I thought I'd bring my question here.

When Packs camp it is family camping - each Cub Scout needs their own, personal adult. Does the Den Chief need to bring his own personal adult as well? My initial thought is no, since he is a Boy Scout and they go camping regularly.

Our Pack is planning on doing a family camping adventure at our local Scout Camp for JOTA/Spooktacular. I have no intention of going (I don't have a Cub, just a den) but Nephew is willing to go w/ his Den (he's starting his 2nd year as their DC). The other adults who will be going will be happy to have him along. Does he need his own adult?

YiS

Michelle

Another field test from Nephew - he wore them to Webeloree this weekend, it rained hard the whole time. He was not cold, they dried quickly and stayed comfortable to wear. Also - these pants have been washed 3 times in the week that he's had them - they are holding up well thus far.

As a side note - he has said "I'd wear these anyways, even to school". Can we ask for a better youth testament?

YiS

Michelle

Lisabob - I'd probably simply decline to sit on the BOR and let someone else take my place. There are 2 boys in Nephew's troop that I actively dislike, don't allow him to invite over, etc. There is no way I could possibly be impartial and open minded for a BOR for these specific boys as I simply dislike them. I feel declining to sit on their BOR would be the far more honorable thing to do. However - you don't sound like you dislike the youth in question, so maybe you would have an easier time being open minded towards them.

I think asking yourself this question before going in to panel a BOR is definately shows you want to make sure the boy is treated fairly by everybody.

Good luck

YiS

Michelle

There is a (imho) a bit of flawed logic behind the not letting in gay men because they would be attracted to the boys in their charge. If that is true, than perhaps women shouldn't be allowed to be leaders either, since (in theory) they are straight they would be attracted to males, which would include the boys they are leading. I'm not debating if gays should or shouldn't be in Scouts. That is a horse long since beaten to death. I'm simply addressing that one bit of logic.

Okay - leaving the horse and tossing some fresh flowers on a very old grave.

YiS

Michelle

If it was a Webeloree than I think it should be kept age appropriate. Showing them boys having fun doing stuff they want to do but aren't old enough yet, at an event specifically for their age is akin to setting out a plate of brownies and telling them they can't have one.

(Does her best Snidely Whiplash impression WAAHAHAHA!)

They can see the cool stuff they will get to do by visiting a troop at a camporee or klondike. But at an event held just for them they should be able to participate in all that is going on. As an aside to that - showing them the program areas as part of a tour or telling them while on the BB range "over there is where you'll be able to do Rifle and Shotgun merit badges as a Boy Scout" is great....but taunting them w/ slightly older boys doing those things is a bit unfair (in my opinion). Again - its because the event was specifically for Webelos that I feel this way.

YiS

Michelle

Since the website is scouting.org and not specifically BOYscouting.org I see showing pics of female Scouts as embracing the diversity that makes BSA a worthwhile organization. Since BSA is the parent organization for Sea Scouts and Venturers, why not show them on the website? Clicking on the Boy Scout tab on the left brings pictures of boys, as does clicking on the Cub Scout tab (all be it smaller boys). Clicking on the Venturer tab brings pictures of both boys and girls. There have been plenty of pics on the website homepage of boys (people here - myself included - enjoy picking the uniforms apart ). So they have had a couple of weeks of diversity - no harm. And maybe it will get a teen boy to check the site...that can never be a bad thing.

YiS

Michelle

As a DL, thank you. Thank you for being willing to help with the Den & Pack program. Thank you for being willing to be a part of your son's life (as well as the lives of the boys around him). That might sound like a no-brainer but you would be amazed at the number of parents who don't even want to sign him up for Tigers when they find out that they have to participate with their child. You will find that you will get as much out of your time as a Leader as your child will get out of his time as a Scout.

Absolutely wear the uniform. The 2nd biggest regret I have back to my days as an ADL is not getting the uniform. I didn't think it was that important...I was "just" the ADL. Well, perception is everything. I didn't make it important or feel like I was really part of leadership...so I wasn't. Does that make any sense? Ebay is a great source for used uniform parts.

My biggest regret as an ADL? Not getting training until later in the winter. By then I was frustrated with the boys, the den, the pack, the whole thing. Get training and don't get stuck in the mind set of "I'm JUST the ADL". To at least one little boy you are a Goddess, a World, a Rock, a Teacher (in addition to chef, maid and chauffer).

YiS

Michelle

Nephew got his new pants this weekend (After coming home from Camporee, but in time for his Cub Scout Meeting as Den Chief and Court of Honor). Everybody was impressed by his new pants and he absolutely loves them. The material feels better than I expected - a little different than swim trunks but not much. One of his favorite features is the built in belt....which he already twisted in the waistband but that is par for the course w/ him.

YiS

Michelle

I think there is a line between tradition and habit. In my mind a tradition is beloved and has meaning. A habit is just a lazy way to avoid having to make fresh choices.

I love tradition but think some people use that word to avoid having to take responsibility to make a change. My biggest pet peeve is the phrase "but we've always done it that way", especially when answering a question from a youth or a parent. If we don't have a better answer than that, perhaps its time to either find a real answer or re-examine the "tradition" in question. Sometimes an old tradition takes on more meaning when we discover the real reason for it.

Change simply for change sake is as foolish as merely continuing to do the same thing because you are unwilling to try to make a change. In Nephew's Troop they "traditionally" required all SPL's to be Star or Higher. At a recent election that meant 1 boy (out of eligble and willing). Nephew suggested opening it up to 1st Class and higher....taking a step towards changing a Troop "tradition". It was something he felt strongly about, thought about for a long time, and was important to him.

I'm not a highly religious person but I do use the Serenity prayer as a guiding principal....especially the "...and the wisdom to know the difference". I don't always succeed, but that's the goal to which I strive.

YiS

Michelle

Gern that would knock my Boy Scout out. One of the biggest pushes for him to want to learn to read was because nobody would read the cheats for him....(wow, was 4 really that long ago?) He gets a new game and immediately has to find every cheat he can for it.

As an aside - would adding Video Game Design or something along those lines really be such a bad merit badge? Not game playing, but the "writing and debugging" programming aspect? Okay - so perhaps it would be but right now I can't see how.

YiS

Michelle

That is my favorite odd National Day....I can't wait. LOL

Today, for the record, is National Hug a Crabby Stranger Day.

(Wouldn't that just make them crabbier?)

YiS

Michelle

I'll be interested to see what others have to say about this as well. We bridged our Bears to Webelos on June 11th. June 1st seems to be the "magic day" were everybody moves up to their next rank. During the summer they have worked on Outdoorsman & the Outdoors Award as a den, They have earned the Fishing Beltloop as a den, as well as attended summer resident camp. So, would their 3 months start on June 11th? Or Sept 10th when we had our first formal den meeting?

My gut feeling would be to start on the bridging date if they participated in summertime activities as a den, but others may have better insight.

YiS

Michelle(This message has been edited by msnowman)

I'm in the camp of as long as other youth centered groups are allowed equal access to the schools for recruiting BSA should be allowed to recruit there. However - class time is not the proper time for anybody to recruit for anything other than academics. At the recent open house at our town's only school there were tables for the Girl Scouts, PTO, Cub Scouts and Rec Department Sports. I didn't see a table for Royal Rangers/Missionettes, Awana, Spiral Scouts, Atheist w/o Foxholes or whoever else might want to get the parents & childrens attention. However, if they had asked to have a table, they would have been allowed to. Every group that comes to recruit has some sort of membership requirements. To think that BSA is the only group that has requirements that could be considered "discriminatory" is short sighted and naive.

YiS

Michelle

Goodness I hope that isn't the belief for changing it OGE. As cold as early November can be at least we are not buried in snow and wind chills. The ground is still (usually) bare and you can let the boys walk between houses....gonna be a whole lot harder to convince them (and their parents) that they want to get out of the car at all, let alone walk anywhere in knee deep snow (waist on a small Tiger) and 25 degree temps.

Mmmm, maybe someone from away picked the date for us...lol

I was just looking at our council's calendar (they finally got the on-line version updated) and noticed that they have changed the date for Scouting for Food from November to February.....I was wondering if this was a National, Regional or merely Council thing.

YiS

Michelle

Fortunately eating (and cooking outdoors) is age appropriate...and fits in with the activity pin we are working on ATM (Outdoorsman), so there is the natural fit there. The other one our DC has in mind is one of their First Aid meetings which are planned for the same month I had penciled in Readyman, so again, the fit is there. These two are spread out over many months (one in October, the other tentative for April), which I feel is good as it keeps the focus on being Webelos and having fun doing the stuff Webelos can do that the younger boys can't. We already have lots of Webelos stuff planned (Webeloree, Spooktacular, Aqua-nuts, etc) and there is more coming. They are also already looking forward to going back to Summer Resident Camp again.

Now that we have nearly a full serving of Cub Scouts (our Pack has Tigers, Wolves, Bears and Web I's for the first time in 3 years) the Webelos are ready to enjoy being the big guys in the Pack.

Thanks for the advice

Michelle