msnowman

CNY - Since currently the 4 active boys are from two different patrols, you effectively have 2 2-boy patrols (though maybe it is 3/1...its been so long nobody really knows who is in what patrol), neither with a PL. Perhaps when troop elections come around there will be patrol realignment. These 4 boys, if they were a FT patrol could work as a unit and have some Patrol pride. For camping trips these boys do work as a virtual patrol...but I personally don't think that is necessarily good use of the patrol method (but then again, I'm still learning, I'm not the SM or a boy, so I am willing to concede I could possibly be less than correct).

YiS

Michelle

1. Is your troop boy led?

It had been nearly been boy led into the ground. A new SM took the reins in February and is working w/ the PLC to give the boys a better base. The boys are still doing the leading, but with a bit more adult guidance.

2. Do you make good use of the patrol method?

No. Too few boys are active to make 1 good patrol, let alone two.

3. How many boys are in your troop?

Active? 4. Registered and occassional participants? 7.

Why the difference? A lot has to do w/ boy led into the ground as mentioned in #1. Its also a troop heavy on older (14+) boys who are also active with a Ship or Crew. The Pack has 0 Webelos this year so there are no new boys coming in.

4. What has your troop meeting program been the last few months?

Lots of sitting around and chatting about little to do w/ scouting.

However, since the end of January this has improved. There has been a camping trip per month, the PLC is developing a plan to work towards a canoe trip (intro to backpacking, backpack cooking, day hikes, etc.). There has also been meetings devoted to preparing for the Council Scout Skills show.

YiS

Michelle

I'll side with the "start with the shirt" group. I'm not hearing (or rather, reading) a refusal to wear the complete uniform but rather a concern for losing Scouts by requiring more than the family can afford, thus the new Troops desire to create a uniform closet.

The suggestion about a paper route made me laugh. I can't speak for sunsetandshadow's rural area, but in our rural area only the adults have paper routes because they are all motor routes, meaning delivery is all made by car because of the distances involved. Absolutely encourage the boys to get out there and raise money, perhaps they can pool earnings to start bidding on ebay (via an adult w/ computer access or other means). This way the boys will have pride in helping earn their way, plus paving the way for others.

It isn't the uniform that makes the Scout, its the Scout that makes the uniform.

YiS

Michelle

The single biggest change from Bear to Webelos is that the parents are no longer the ones to sign off on requirements. As the WDL you would be the person to do the signing off. However, with that being said, it does not mean that you can't get the family involved with specific tasks. The requirements for Family Member and Traveler are far more conducive to being done on the family level than strictly on the den level.

For achievement pins that are outside your comfort level for leading, try using parents or merit badge counselors....or Boy Scouts who have that merit badge. Make use of all your available resources.

Good luck and have fun

YiS

Michelle

I do not now, nor have I ever smoked. However, back several years ago when a "major tobacco company" was running a "Miles" promotion, I did take advantage of my smoker friends and collect the said pieces to obtain items. Among these were a tent, sleeping bag, duffel bag, binoculars and canteen, all of which are still in very good shape and getting plenty of use by Boy Scout Nephew. HOWEVER, as a family we feel that the "advertising" on these items is inappropriate for the Scouting atmosphere. So, to that end we make use of the handyman's secret weapon. All offensive labels are covered over with a healthy serving of silver or camo duct tape. This works for us. A Scout is thrifty - buying another set of things we already have would not be very thrifty in my opinion. Duct tape is a far more cost effective option.

YMMV

YiS

Michelle

1 - Why not register anxious mom/dad/guardian as a committee member? Not that makes any difference on how they act or should be treated, but if they want to tag along anyway get 'em on the hook as part of the program. Our Pack has one anxious father who wants to attend Cub Res camp w/ his son. Our answer was "No problem, we'll get you signed up as a MC and you'll be good to go".

As far as the parents interfering or treating their Scout different, I guess you'd have to take advantage of "re-educational opportunities" and work to show the parent how boy-led is a continuous work in progress.

Nephew has been in the Troop a year now and I have not gone on any of his camping trips. Besides the fact that I hate to camp, I feel its important for him to have time to grow w/o me there. He learns he can count on himself, and when he can't do it himself he learns that he can count on others to help when asked. He is also learning that he can be counted on. These are lessons that I don't think he would have gotten in a year had I gone on the camping trips as he would have continued to try to come to me for help, advice, input. Granted, its nice to know he respects my opinion, but its much nicer to know that he is learning to be a young man of substance and self-sufficience. I have stopped by on the middle day of some of the Fri-Sun Camporees when they have been close to home. I say hi to him but really spend more time getting to know the SM or other adult leaders at camp w/ him and watching the Boy-led dynamics. I have asked him if he minds if I stop by and he has always told me "no, you don't even talk to me or bother me with my buds". I guess that is high praise because then he turns around and says "you know, when you went to camp w/ me when I was a Web II that was our own little Pal & Me". I so love that Nephew boy of mine.

YiS

Michelle

The difference between Cubs and Little League is that girls can go out for Little League if they want to. It is an available option for them, Cubs isn't.

Ultimately each Pack will handle this issue as works best for them and the families they have involved. What works in Tiny Town, Maine doesn't necessarily work in Large City, Nebraska. As long as the boys aren't being short-changed and are getting a well-rounded, fun and interesting program, we will continue this way.

I love this Scouting family

YiS

Michelle

Ed, I respect your right to your opinion, even though it differs from my own. My situation is very similar to what Lisabob described. Besides, I'm a softie...our den's one sister is 4. I don't have the heart to tell her she can't paint or sculpt w/ us just because she is a girl. Girl or not, she is still a small child, with the easily hurt feelings that come w/ the age. No, we don't plan our meetings to include her, we do what we are going to do and the boys get first shot at materials. But when its a 30 color pack of Sculpty, no boy wants to use the pink and lavendar. Far more is gained by letting her participate than by needlessly telling her no. Besides, the family that Scouts together stays in Scouting longer (IMHO).

YMMV

Michelle

One boy in my den has a younger female sibling. She usually participates w/ our den if we are doing a project that she can do also. She doesn't earn achievements, etc like the boys do, its their program, not hers. However, our Pack strongly believes in Cub Scouting as a Family Activity so if we do an event where the families participate, she (along w/ any other family member) receives patches, etc. For example, she sat thru the service for Scout Sunday along w/ her brother so when SS patches were being passed out at B&G she and a few other siblings received them also.

Lisabob - too bad your council doesn't allow "non-cub children" at resident camp. Ours does and some families plan their vacation around the whole family going to camp. The other children go as leader dependents. Unless that's what you meant - non-cub children of leaders who are attending camp can go but general, non leader children cannot. In that case, our camp is set up the same way.

YiS

Michelle

The definition of sport doesn't seem to be a concrete thing sometimes. Marbles and chess are games, but that doesn't make them sports. Hiking isn't really a game, nor does it seem to be a sport by itself. However, if Map & Compass were changed to Orienteering that could encompass hiking (and Orienteering is definately a sport).

Good luck on your quest

YiS

Michelle

John in KC said "Leaders have to apply empathy and understanding of family finances to the "which Class A uniform" question for a Webelo. A leader inistent on the de la Renta shirt MUST HAVE a Plan B for those who are in financial straits, especially if the current Blue shirt fits well."

It really doesn't matter what the leader is insistent upon. Unless something has been changed just recently, the leader, Pack, Troop, District, Council has no say in if the Webelos wears Blue or Tan. That choice is strictly up to the family. So, the leader can insist all they want, but in reality they are S.O.L. (Sorry, out of Luck).

YiS

Michelle

I agree Eamonn. In another thread a poster asserted that if we weren't embarressed by what we say we should be putting our names and home towns on our signature. I used to put my name/town on my sig, but stopped when I realized it wouldn't take a lot to track me down if someone was so inclined. For me its a personal privacy issue, not one of "hiding".

YiS

Michelle

I have used the below listed site for Blue & Gold Leader recognition. https://people.creighton.edu/~bjs74318/bluejay/pack114/library/scout-ldr.html

Though this one would be nice also - http://www.usscouts.org/bbugle/bb0002.doc

One suggestion I can make is to give each a small flashlight (because they light the way for our boys).

I used the Scout Leader poem above, split into speaking parts for each of the leaders. I did a whole candle lighting ceremony that tied in the "one light shines, but all of our lights together shines brighter" type theme. If you are interested you can PM and I'd be happy to pass it on.

YiS

Michelle

Everybody here makes some good points. Thank you Lisabob for present what is probably a common view from the Pack perspective. Our Pack had similar issues with our brother Troop (I prefer to think of the Pack/Troop as brothers instead of a "feeder" relationship). For the 3 years I was CM I tried to get den chiefs and there was no interest. And it wasn't just Den Chief. The troop simply didn't want anything to do w/ the pack. In 3 years only 4 boys bridged over to the Troop at all and only two of them have stayed. 1 year the 2 Web II's were treated miserably by the Troop and when it came time for their AoL they didn't want the troop to be involved in any fashion.

However, things are getting better. Both of the boys who have stayed are now serving as Den Chiefs to the Pack. One is a new Star Scout and the other is my 2nd Class Scout. We have no Webs this year (we do have 2 Bears as our oldest Cubs), so it will be a couple of years before the Troop sees anything coming back from the Pack besides Den Chiefs w/ leadership experience.

Relations between Pack and Troop are a two-way, year-round street. The Pack does not exist simply to fill the Troop, nor does the Troop exist simply to support the Troop. They both exist to best serve their portion of the young males that choose them. Just because a Pack and a Troop share a CO doesn't mean the Cubs feel a loyalty to a bunch of older boys they don't know. And that isn't a relationship that should be put off being built. Eventually those Tigers and Wolves will be 2nd year Webelos. If you want them to come to you then you need to come to them...frequently.

Pack adult leadership needs to remember that if they have an upcoming need for the Troop they need to let the Troop know well in advance. The Troop needs to remember that if they want the Cubs to join them at an activity, adult leadership needs to know well in advance as well. But, Pack leadership should also try to remember who does most of the planning of Troop activities and be willing to cut them some slack about advanced notice...Teenage boys are still learning the traits of good and responsible leaders.

YiS

Michelle

If I remember correctly, this year's Tigers still need to earn Tiger before they can earn Bobcat. If that is true he wouldn't be able to earn Bobcat before June 1st.

However, how about putting some of it back on the parents? There are 15 things that need to be done to earn Tiger. There is no reason the parents can't do the Tiger requirements with him at home while he works on Bobcat at the den level. That way, even if he doesn't finish Tiger before your Pack bridges over, he will have gotten to work on it, earned his pocket totem and a few beads and will still be able to be ready for Bobcat after June 1st.

Also - if another den in your Pack is planning a field trip that would fit one of the go-see-its he needs (Fire station, hike, tv station, etc), perhaps that den leader would be willing to let New Tiger & Parent come along...since the Tiger ratio is 1:1, it doesn't really add to the Den Leaders load significantly.

Good Luck

YiS

Michelle

(I'm probably not an o'wise one, though I do occassionally convince Nephew that I am).

This is in the Cub Scout topic area but it almost sounds like you are asking about Troop committee meetings, but regardless I'll give you what our Pack and Troop both do.

As far as the Pack goes, this came up last month at our meeting as we have some new leadership with the new charter year. I asked the question of whether it would be appropriate for our Den Chiefs to attend the Pack Committee meeting to see how leadership for the Pack works. The answer from our CC & CM, as well as the parents who attended (woohoo, we had 2 parents come, first time ever) was that it would be a wonderful idea for them to get another view of leadership and the planning that goes into the things that they see happening. Besides, as DC's they help conduct the program, they should have a say in what gets planned (this is our small Pack, YMMV).

The Troop includes the SPL in committee meetings, though I'm reasonably certain other youth members would not be turned away or forbidden to be present.

For both, if there is an "executive session" we seperate ourselves from the youth. There are times that things shouldn't be discussed in an open forum with youth members present. Specific examples that I can think of would include discpline of either an adult member or another youth member. Unless you are the youth in question (or the injured party perhaps) you have no business in that discussion.

This is also how our local schoolboard handles their meetings. While Schoolboard meetings are open to the public anyway, they do have 2 youth delegates from the High School sit in on their meetings, except for the aforementioned private sessions.

It works here.

YiS

Michelle

Yep, she opted for the Ship. Her application was submitted today.

Since I am a Cub DL and a Troop MC, I have no intention of taking on a leadership role in the Ship. My partner will be taking on a Ship Committee position as necessary, I'm staying out of that loop.

Roots & Wings...maybe that will become my new mantra.

YiS

Michelle

After starting in Cub Scouts with Nephew and being peripherially involved w/ his Troop for the last year we have recently become the guardians for a 16 yo girl. Other than having been one once I have no experience w/ 16 yo girls so I did the most logical thing I could think of - introduce her to Boy Scouts. Fortunatly our town has a new Ship and a Crew. She has just moved back to the area from living out of state for a while and was surprised to see that she remembered something of the youth (kids? is it okay to call them that at this age?) from when she did go to school in the area. I didn't push the idea, just presented her with the chance to meet the people involved. Her registration was submitted today. I'm hoping this will give her a positive experience and encourage her to stay in school (no, not because of Scouts, but rather because she knows more positive people and has friends).

Hints/tips/ideas would be helpful....puhleeeze?

YiS

Michelle

Adrianvs said "...I would submit that the purpose of the uniform is not to be something that a young woman (or young man, for that manner) feels is fashionable."

But see, if it were something that the young men and women felt was fashionable (or at least not horrifyingly out of date) I think half of the discussions about how to get our Scouts to wear the full uniform would be rectified.

As far as the earrings comment, I took that as tongue in cheek, though perhaps I misconstrued how it was meant.

The current uniform does nothing for anybody's figure...whether male, female, slender or not, it isn't intended to. But it should at least be comfortable to wear and serve its intended purpose. If that purpose is to look like an 80's flashback it does it well. If that purpose is to be a wearable outfit that serves the purpose of outdoor activities and promotes Unit pride than in my opinion it falls short.

YiS

Michelle

When Nephew wanted to be DC for my Wolf/Bear den I sent him to his SM who approved him and sent him on to his SPL. I told him he had to do it by the book and follow the chain of command....whatever that might be.

As a side note - Any Den Leader can request a Den Chief for their den, whether it be Tiger, Wolf, Bear of Webelos. It isn't only Webelos that have den chiefs. Tigers don't normally have or need them, but our District people said there was nothing to stop them from having one. I think our Pack is lucky to have trained Den Chiefs for both of our dens.

YiS

Michelle

From my experience parents are almost worse about causing homesickness than the boy himself is. As has been mentioned, the "we/the dog/cat/goat/gamboy will miss you" is a deathknell. If you can get the parent over being homesick for their boy you will have a lot better chance of keeping him at camp. Our Pack (I know, younger than yours, but still) discourages parents from coming on Parents day because the boys are more likely to want to go home with them since they are already there.

Everybody has such great suggestions - its easy to tell Homesickness is a common malady at all levels of camp.

Good luck and good camping

YiS

Michelle

We started Sept with 4 Tigers, 2 Wolves and 1 Bear. We lost 1 Tiger but gained one so we still have 4 Tigers. We have added another Wolf and another Bear. We have zero Web I's or II's.

YiS

Michelle

I was thinking the same thing Lisabob. The one school in our Pack's town is a K-8 school w/ about 170 students in it......hard to imagine a Pack as large as our school.

YiS

Michelle

I did this ceremony w/ my Bobcats in November and December....it was so popular they are still talking about it and our newest Bobcat will have this ceremony this month at B&G (his choice to wait, he wanted "ceremony and cake"). If you are interested, I could email you the ceremony I used for them. It probably wouldn't be hard to tweak it to fit Tigers.

YiS

Michelle(This message has been edited by msnowman)

Dan - when I was first CM I would try to take time after the Pack meetings to get to know the boys and their parents. I have found that sometimes the younger boys were especially shy around me when I was the CM...and why not? They usually only saw me once or twice a month, otherwise it was their den leader they interacted with...I was a little more than a stranger. So, I did the same thing after Spring and Fall recruiting or if we had visiting family (grandparents etc). There would always be somebody I had met before but simply couldn't pull their names out of my head. I simply fess up and say "I know we've met before but I just can't seem to recall your name". For some reason I've never had to say that to the same person twice...Okay, except the twins...

YiS

Michelle