msnowman

Our Pack has no Web II's and 2 Web I's. How soon is too soon for getting the Webelos visiting the Troop? They have a Den Chief who is itching to invite 'his boys' to a Troop meeting and even has a couple of their meetings in mind (when the Troop is doing things the Webelos would enjoy, instead of being bored). He has already talked to his SM who is ready for them to visit anytime. My take is that it is never too early to start building a relationship with the Troop.

The Pack and Troop (under the old SM) didn't have a great relationship (they weren't real welcoming of Webelos, didn't want to bother with being Den Chief, etc). The new SM has invited the Webelos I's to come camping with them, etc....anything to forge strong ties.

Thanks

YiS

Michelle

the more they stay the same.

On the Scouting magazine website, under Web Exclusives/Things to send for or download there is a link to a PDF of the very first Scouting magazine. I read it and was amused to find that there were questions about getting the boys to wear the current uniform in full, suggestions for changes to the current uniform, how to handle ceremonies and troop transfors, reminders of how important Scouting is to all boys (including the need for willing adults to participate), even suggestions for a Scoutmasters Minute. These are all things that are still being discussed 93 years later.....

http://www.scoutingmagazine.org/index.html

YiS

Michelle

Last year my mixed Wolf/Bear den made a den flag. I gave each boy a square of felt (all the same color) to decorate his way. They used fabric paints, glitter glue, felt Fleur-de-Lis (I cut them out ahead of time), foam stick on letters, etc. One of the mom's put them together as a flag. Of course this worked because I only have 4 boys at the time, not real practical with a large group...unless you used smaller squares of felt or other fabric.

Good Luck and have fun.

YiS

Michelle

I talked to our Scout store manager and they don't have anything on the new pants so they probably won't have them for the next month.....I guess I'll be ordering them from Scoutstuff as Nephew needs pants now....good timing though.

YiS

Michelle

"Watch this - this is going to be soooo cool!".

I have learned that whenever Nephew tells me a story and it starts with "I was trying to be cool and..." there is never a good ending.

YiS

Michelle

Cross over or AoL? I know, most groups seem to use them interchangably, that's why I ask.

Do the boys already have their AoL? Have they completed everything they need to to earn their AoL if they haven't already received it?

If the Oct boy doesn't meet the requirements to become a Boy Scout than he is still a Cub Scout - or at least still eligible to be one.

Is there no other adult willing to become a den leader for the last few months? How do the boys who meet the age/time requirement feel about it? They are the ones who would be shortchanged by crossing over now.

YiS

Michelle

I can't speak to why Packs/Troops in your area uniform the way they do, but I can give some insight as to why our Pack does.

Cub pants are expensive. For something that is worn once a week, they aren't an expense most parents can justify. For the price of one pair of Cub pants parents can buy 2 or 3 pairs of daily wear pants at Wal-Mart and to be honest that's the direction most of our families go. All of the boys have shirts, but all of those shirts are from the uniform closet, none of the boys have brand new ones.

However, Nephew's troop is a full uniform Troop. He doesn't go thru pants as quickly now as when he was a Cub. Plus the boys in the Troop (in theory) should be earning at least part of their uniforming money themselves. Also - at his age his jeans and pants are about the same price as his uniform pants, so there is no excuse for him not to be properly uniformed.

Good luck with changing the uniforming policy. The boys in full uniform look sharp and I agree that full uniforming should be the goal...as long as it isn't at the expense of the boys. Perhaps finding a source for experienced Cub pants/shorts/socks would help families that struggle w/ the expense.

(ETA - this topic has made me want to find that source for pants here...to help families promote the pride of full uniforming).

YiS

Michelle(This message has been edited by msnowman)

Nephew learned his Scout Law w/ the song Cajun mentioned. He found it very helpful.

Good Luck

YiS

Michelle

1 - The changing of the date is beyond your control. In good faith you scheduled it as your July event.

2 - You still have 3 events scheduled for the summer, even w/ the change in dates on the Air Show.

As I see it (and I'm sure other's will take a different stand) this is Cub Scouting - the motto is Do Your Best. You have done your best for the Pack...and still have 3 activities planned so count it.

IMHO

YiS

Michelle

Thanks to everybody for the great suggestions. I think I will start w/ Outdoorsman, especially if Council does their Webeloree like they did last year. However, I also think I'll spread it out a little more, into bite sized pieces, probably letting Nephew decide what parts he wants to work on w/ them.

Also - Long - Nephew has his Webelos DC Cord. After he bridged "his boys" over, helping w/ hats and neckerchiefs, I then bridged him over, changing his cord from CS DC to Web. Also - he only has to wait til Sept for his DC award, he has done everything else...including staffing day camp this summer. He is wicked excited.

YiS

Michelle

No Long, I haven't taken OWLT.

I do have a Den Chief (Nephew is staying w/ this group after having Den Chiefed for them as Bears last year). Our Pack has a much better relationship with its brother Troop than it did a couple years ago (we grew our own Den Chiefs, there's a new SM, etc). I've talked w/ the SM about coming to visit our guys and maybe help w/ the Fitness pin (he's a MB for Personal Fitness so I didn't think it would be a huge stretch for him)...all with an eye to strengthening that Pack/Troop relationship. This Troop is far more active now than it has been also. Our Den Chief is really excited for September to come because "I know this stuff and can do a lot". He wants to plan for them to visit "his" troop shortly after school starts. (As a side question - is there any reason not to encourage Den visits to the Troop if the Troop activity is something that might interest them? In other words, not visiting during Troop elections, etc).

Thanks for the input

Michelle

I know its only July but being the compulsive planner that I am, I have already started on my plans for the Fall. I'll be doing the Web I den (all 2 of them) this fall. We have no Web II's.

I want to get these guys outside and doing outdoors things while the Maine weather permits. Looking at the required pins for Webelos and AoL (a little different from when Nephew was a Web 2 years ago) I find that only one is an outdoor one. Would you start off the Web I year with Outdoorsman (required for AoL) or would you hold it until next spring? If our council does a Webeloree again than Outdoorsman will be no question. I could do Geology or Forestry with them in the fall if Outdoorsman has been found to be too difficult for Web I's.

Fitness and Citizen I will do w/ them when the days are too cold and drives us inside. I don't want to lose nice days doing things that are easily fitted to the indoors.

Thanks for your input....feedback is always welcome.

YiS

Michelle

It was said in another post that perhaps Packs with 5, 6, 7, or 8 boys should consider merging or degrouping and let the boys choose from fewer but larger packs.

Coming from a Pack with 6-10 boys, I am very aware of the fact that one size does not always fit all. Our boys go to a school with less than 160 students in grades K-8, less than half of them are boys (the school is really girl heavy right now). They have small classes and know all of the kids in them. The next town over is about 4 times that size and they have a Pack as well. However, all of the families in our Pack prefer to keep their boys in a smaller, hometown Pack as well as smaller school. A few years ago this town rejected a proposal to send their 6th-8th graders to the sparkley new middle school that Nextdoor was building. The reason? They wanted their children to stay involved in Smalltown as long as possible.

As the school population swings the Pack population swings. Our Pack is growing again and with new parents taking on leadership roles I think it will continue to grow a bit, though it will never be very big.

Small Packs can stay active and provide their youth with an active program. Much of that falls back on to the parents. Larger, fewer Packs can become as impersonal as larger, regional schools. However, I do agree that a small Pack with no interested parents does everybody a disservice.

So, in your opinion, how small of a Pack is too small? I think a Pack is too small when you can't get the requist number of adults. Talk freely amongst yourselves...I just ask out of curiosity.

YiS

Michelle

Yea St. Cad, you'd think 4 Tigers, 2 Wolves and 2 Bears would equal 8 parents with experience. In reality it yields 3 Tiger parents, (1 pair of twins), 2 Wolf parents - neither w/ any previous experience except his own time as a Cub Scout and 2 Bear adults - 1 which is shared w/ a Tiger sibling and the other a non-parent guardian - neither w/ any previous experience. So no, none were comfortable stepping up from knowing nothing to CM. However, of this same group of adults we now have 2 new den leaders and an ACM and another committee member. Giving them a year to get to know and understand the program served us better than shoving them into roles they had no idea about and potentially losing the whole group.

YMMV

Michelle

The way you put it, it sounds like the Packs have merged in everything except paper and unit number.

Our very small Pack was in a similar position, except that it was one of folding or not. We had 4 Tigers, 2 Wolves and 2 Bears. No Webelos, the Tiger leader had vanished, I was CM and I was getting done and going to just lead the mixed Wolf/Bear den. We gave the parents the hard talk - step up or the program for your sons will fold. None of the registered leaders even had boys in the Pack. The CC took CM, a former Committee Member (whose youngest aged out of the Troop as Eagle) agreed to be CC and the former Webelos Leader agreed to come back and take the Tigers. Well, we picked up 1 more Wolf but still no parents registered beyond Committee Member.

Fast forward to April. The final word to the parents was this - If you don't step up there will be no Pack. The Tiger leader only took this on as an interim solution so we didn't lose all 4 boys, I'm going to lead the Webelos, so the (new) Bears will need a leader. The (new) Wolves will also need a leader, we need a CC and any new Tigers will need to come up w/ a leader also. Well, we got 3 new leaders out of the parents. We have also registered a new boy and have one who has visited us for a couple events (he wants to be a Scout, parents aren't sure).

I guess the moral of my story is not to write them off just because they are small. Our Pack is making a comeback like never before. However - ALL of the parents of ALL of the boys in the Pack have to be willing to do their part. IF the parents aren't interested enough to step up there is no way the Pack will stand on its own two (twenty-two?) feet. Regardless of what the DE/District Chair want, if there isn't anybody to recharter there isn't anybody to recharter.

Good luck and I hope things work out well.

YiS

Michelle

I'm currently reading The Count of Monte Cristo for the umpteenth time, as well as the Hitchhikers Guide trilogy (again). Yes, I'm one of "those"....I read the same books over and over....its like visiting old friends. I'll check here often for new suggestions though.

YiS

Michelle

Nephew has asked me to make a post for him. His council (Katahdin Area Council) has put out an 85th anniversary patch that is different than their regular patch. He would like to trade a few of them for patches from other councils and will go 1:1 or 2:2. If you are interested PM me and I will send it on to him.

YiS

Michelle

If your resident camp is like our Council's they will schedule the boys day (ie - 1000 to 1055 woodworking, 1110 to 1145 archery, etc). If they don't provide any free periods and the boys are getting cranky, hot and tired, skip an activity and take them back to the camp site. Just because your whole day is scheduled out doesn't mean you have to do it. Sometimes going back to the campsite and doing something more low keyed (whittling chip? knots? napping?) is exactly the thing to revive them (and you) for the rest of the day.

Another good thing in your kit is Gold Bond type powder. Walking a lot in sticky heat can cause chafing. Hopefully the boys are comfortable enough w/ either your or the parent leader to let you know there's a problem. If they do you can send them w/ the powder to the KYBO to take care of it. (Nephew had this problem for his first 2 years of Cub Resident Camp, we changed styles of undergarment and the problem stopped).

Oh yea, and because it can't be mentioned enough - water for everybody. We don't let our boys have milk or juice with their meals until they've finished a glass of water.

Remember to bring an extra helping of humor and patience. You'll need it, the boys will appreciate it and everyone will have a much better time.

YiS

Michelle

Cheerful, I wrote the Glowing Bobcat ceremony that we use. I got the idea from another mailing list that I belong to.

PM me and I'd be happy to share it.

YiS

Michelle

We do the Glowing Bobcat Ceremony w/ "Bobcat essence" and "magic dew" (glow stick juice and activator). This has been an immensely popular ceremony - enough so that the boys talk about it and as each earns his Bobcat this is the ceremony he is looking forward to. We don't do the "upside down Bobcat" because technically that would be adding to the requirements. They already earned their Bobcat, there is nothing saying they have to do a good deed. Not that there is anything wrong w/ them doing a good deed, but the "do a good turn daily" is the Boy Scout Slogan, not a Cub Scout one.

Good luck w/ whatever you decide for a ceremony. I'm sure it will be a hit.

YiS

Michelle

campcrafter - I'm talking extreme disrespect (yelling, cursing, etc to other boys or leaders), refusal to participate (along the lines of "NO! I don't have to"...no, you don't, you may call your mother to get you and take you home), hitting/kicking. Mind you, calling the parent is the not the first stop on the order & discipline train. I made other stops - boys will act up and get restless. However, when the same scenario plays out week after week, then the parents will get a call. I was very clear w/ that to the boys and their parents from the first meeting. It worked well, only a couple of times did a call home for a ride become necessary. Follow thru is important.

And, I never called the parent, I had the boy call. One of the best punishments my stepfather gave me when I was a kid was making me tell my friends myself that I was grounded because I hadn't cleaned my room. Making the child call and explain their behavior themselves makes them take ownership of their actions. Believe me, the next time he told me to clean my room I sure did.

YiS

Michelle

We had Twin Tigers this past year and I asked our DC. One partner for the twins was all that we had to have.

Enjoy

YiS

Michelle

It may not be the most popular stance but I'm in the group that doesn't necessarily subscribe to 3 strikes. There are things that pretty much mandate immediate expulsion from camp. That being said, I have sent a boy home from camp on the 3rd day. I have also had boys call their parents to come pick them up from den meetings because they were unable to conform. BSA is not Baby Sitters of America, contrary to what some parents like to believe.

YiS

Michelle

Zip lock baggies are your friends. Socks and shirts fit in them for the boys. That way they stay dry and don't get filthy w/ everything else in their tote. We recommend our boys use Rubbermaid totes for their camp gear. Zip lock baggies also hold sunblock, shampoo, and soap for the duration of camp. They hold bug spray too, but that is something our boys actually use, as opposed to the 5 S's above.

You'll do fine.

YiS

Michelle

Something that our Pack tried this year for the first time is having a Red Day for catching up (get it? Ketchup Day?). We had different stations set up, some w/ advancement activities that may have been missed during the regular course of events, some w/ beltloop stations, etc. We had a pretty high turn out, some rank was completed that day and several belt loops were earned. It does take some extra planning from the leaders, because they need to know who needs to do what, but ours went fairly smoothly for a first attempt. I definately would run it again next year.

YiS

Michelle