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MomToEli

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Posts posted by MomToEli

  1. I wish some of these posts came with pictures. What color woman leader shirt is she wearing? The yellow one, well, you could see ANYTHING through that thing! Since this was back in 2005 ... it could well have been one of the tan jobs, male issue. I remember when they first came out with the expanding pockets. Those little suckers stood straight at attention at an unfortunate place - and I'm talking about the shirt pockets here! But, I digress. If it was a tan shirt you would NOT be able to see the "girls" through the fabric. And depending on the fit of her bra you may or not be able to tell whether or not she was sans one.

     

    Seriously speaking though, I wonder what ever happened to her? Was she driven out by the crazed adults who served with her? Did they manage to totally humiliate her - and her son in the process?

     

    It would take a whole committee's worth of hands to count the male leaders I've seen who look like they need a good scrubbing and someone to go buy them clothes that were manufactured in THIS century and that actually fit them. Some even, um, stink. But their boys love them to pieces. And so do the parents of those boys.

     

    I have vacillated between being outraged and amused reading this thread. Mostly it makes me very sad.

  2. Basementdweller, just curious ... what is your position in the Pack? You do seem to be the front guy for a whole lotta stuff and maybe you can start telling your committee it isn't your job ... so you can just focus on the boys.

  3. Eammon, I agree with you for the most part, but ...

     

    A boy who feels like he is always compromising just so the group will go will also leave.

     

    IMNSHO, we have a duty to teach the Lads in our care the fine art of give and take. Life really *isn't* all about him. Why would I want to support his illusion? The boy who will quit if he is expected to learn to participate in things that he may not like - well, so be it.

     

    Maybe my perspective is skewed by having a unit small enough that one boy refusing to go to something could make the difference between anyone going or not. I've seen manipulation in action and it isn't pretty. Can't wait until Spring when crossovers changes that dynamic.

  4. I hadn't considered if they were all adults, frankly. College students could, theoretically, be under 21. Since I didn't attend, however, I can't say.

     

    I agree that it is difficult to get the boys to take the initiative. We are in the process of changing the way things work in our own troop. The first thing I had to do was explain what a blue card is. They were using the merit badge workbooks you can get online for both the blue cards AND the merit badge handbooks. So, it is a process, but we will make the change one step at a time.

     

    I can see the value in some of the MBU events presented when they are in settings like some of you have described. That doesn't address the issue of large groups of boys with one counselor. Under those circumstances how does that counselor get feedback from EACH boy to be sure he understands and/or has fulfilled the requirement. Discuss in the requirements doesn't equal listen to some guy talk about it. It involves two way dialogue. When they walk away with partials who do the boys follow up with to complete the badge? That seems to be another downfall of that particular system. It is left to the Scoutmaster - or, as I know it one case one of the mothers, who was to finish off Nuclear Science with the boys and she had NO clue - just let the book be the expert. Now you have unqualified and unregistered MBC actually signing off on Merit Badges. And that is okay because ...?

  5. Deep breaths ... I get the whole feeling of wanting to just chuck it all. Time to refocus on what is important and give the jerk the attention he is due - which is none.

     

    Papadaddy is right - it isn't an application without the money. Ask the DE just how excited he thinks the SE would be to find out he is pressuring units to turn in non-existent applications? National auditors aren't particularly fond of padded membership numbers ...

  6. packsaddle, that was certainly an interesting read. It took everything I had to not chime in and resurrect the years old thread! I wonder what ever happened to that poor woman? There have been many male leaders I would love to have pulled aside and given instructions on how to dress appropriately, believe me. But, since I am not perfection by anyone's standard I've accepted that they care enough to be involved in the first place and figured if the parents of the scouts closest to them are happy, who am I to interfere?

     

    See, I guess my attempts to sit on my hands and type nothing were an abject failure! HA!

  7. Thanks for all of the replies, folks.

     

    Trainerlady, yes, I do encourage them to take classes at camp. Merit Badge classes at camp are structured such that they take at least two separate sessions with time in between to absorb what they are learning. They are mostly limited to offerings that are outdoor oriented and Eagle required badges are very limited. Scoutcraft, frankly, is the area where staff seems to be the most lacking. it is simply amazing how many Eagle Scouts come to camp staff unable to tie knots and build fires - oh, don't get me started on that one! You also get the overzealous ones, the Aquatics Director who was requiring boys have CPR certification to sign them off on Lifesaving, when that isn't what the requirement is. Honestly, I am far more tolerant under those circumstances as they are mostly youth themselves and are nothing more than products of our own Troops. If they don't know their stuff that reflects right back on the units and Scoutmasters.

     

    MBUs are a different breed, though. While the instructors may (and I stress MAY - as many around her are instructed by college students) be experts in their field they often lack any experience with the Boy Scout program, for one, and the class sizes are too large to allow for one on one contact with the boys. It is too easy to stay hidden in the back of the room. As for kicking them out if they are not in full uniform - that presents another problem, as it is adding to the requirements of the Merit Badge, which is just as much of an issue as not requiring the requirements be met.

  8. "Imagine a giant field or park with Pioneering structures, Cooking demonstrations, Fire Safety experiments, Wilderness Survival shelters, Cinematography instruction ... giving Scouts a taste of what the badge involves beyond the picture in the back of the Handbook."

     

    It seems to me that there used to be something of this sort - rather like a Scouting Fair. Hmm ... sounds like a grand idea for me to take back to our District Committee ...

  9. Several Districts in our Council host or put on Merit Badge Universities - most are one day, while one District breaks it into 3 days, about 4 weeks apart. We are closing in on the time of year when these start to pop up again.

     

    And I hate them. IMO they are totally diametrically opposed to the heart and soul of the Merit Badge program. I also have yet to meet a young man who earned a Merit Badge that way who has recollection of the subject learned or who developed any sort of passion to follow up and learn more. (I'm sure there ARE some who have, but I've yet to meet one.)

     

    As our unit leader I don't want our boys attending. I want them to work the Merit Badge program as intended. We have one Dad who is an ASM who wants to make sure (and does) to share the info with the boys regardless. (Thankfully none of the boys has attended anyway.)And my own son, who is not allowed to attend them, is feeling a bit left out while he watches his friends from other troops "earning" badges at those events.

     

    We have really become a parenting society of box checkers, haven't we? Make sure Johnny does everything possible, even if he doesn't get anything out of it ... no wonder it is getting harder to hire people who actually engage in their work. But I digress.

     

    Please - am I just being controlling and over the edge? Am I out of touch with how things are "these days"? Am I depriving our young men of a great opportunity to be exposed to information they may not avail themselves of otherwise?

  10. True, they aren't all created equal. I sure can't help it if there are people who want to do the minimum. And I wouldn't minimize most of the Eagle projects I've seen to claim they'd be easy to complete as an adult. Some are pretty cheezy, for sure, but many are pretty impressive projects. While I don't believe any of mine ranked up there with rebuilding a sod house or laying out a memorial plaza or others done by boys I know, I know I worked pretty durn hard at them - and didn't have a team to supervise - did 'er all myself. So, pass the splint, cuz my arm might be hurtin' any minute now. ;-)

  11. Through the process of the course and as a result of it my unit has direct benefit of five projects that I may have thought of, but would likely never taken the time to complete, all for the good of the unit and the boys in it.

     

    One of the things that gives it great value is that is not a "have to" course. It is a "want to" course. So, those that take it are motivated to do so in the first place, and then feel a sense of obligation to carry it through to the end. Only a particular type of person will take the course in the first place - those that look for opportunities to learn better ways to serve their units.

     

    Lest anyone think it was all roses, I had a patrol who never quite made it through the storming phase (we ALL finished!), I was basically stalled for over a year because of an uncooperative Scoutmaster when I completed my "classroom" work, I took on major summer camp duties for the two summers after my "classroom" work, and it rained a big part of the time. I wouldn't change a thing ... learned and grew through it all.

     

    The expression on the face of one of our Eagle Scouts when he learned about doing 5 tickets to "earn my rank", well ... it was priceless :-)

  12. (This got posted in the wrong place - the topic I thought I was replying to was about younger scouts not listening to older scouts, which morphed into poor leadership skills/bully leadership).

     

    Came in looking for ideas on overcoming this very issue. We are a small Troop - 7 active boys - three 16-18, two 13-14, one 12 and one new scout, 11.

     

    What I have observed is a learned pattern. The older young men aren't mean spirited, but they treat the younger young men like pesky little brothers. They don't teach them. They cherry pick tasks on campouts and stick the younger ones with the more menial tasks - or worse, standing around watching the older young men doing the task, such as lashing, for instance, rather than teaching them. They talk to them like pesky little brothers, too. And we have some rather discouraged younger young men.

     

    So, we've split them into two Patrols. One group will get to enjoy the experience of doing for themselves while the other group will get to experience doing everything for themselves. We've also established an adult patrol so the adults won't do for either group and will *model* what a Patrol should look like and how they should work together.

     

    I'm seeing the cycle start to develop in the younger young men, who I notice that same attitude - now see themselves as the top dogs who have earned the right to be waited on and talk down to the others - creep in. I am trying to figure out how to break this pattern before it gets full blown in the youngers as well as, hopefully, get the olders to see this isn't the Scout way.

     

    Any suggestions on what sort of team building or age diversity activities we might do to overcome this. Just saying stop it isn't effective in the long run.

     

    And it is going to get very interesting when one of the youngers is elected as SPL ...

     

    (This message has been edited by momtoeli)

  13. How do you present the Scout Badge? (The one before Tenderfoot) I can find all sorts of ceremonies from Tenderfoot on, and plenty from AOL back, but not the Scout Badge. Do you just hand it to the young fellow?

  14. No training makes you a better leader. Application of what you learn during that training is what makes you a better leader.

     

    One very big part of Woodbadge is your ticket items. You will be required to complete 5 projects over the 18 months following your "classroom" time, which should be unit based if you are active in a unit. The result of those tickets should better your unit in some way. So, from that stand point alone, I would answer your question as yes - Woodbadge is worth it.

     

    From a personal side I got a better perspective on Scouting - Boys Scouts in particular - through WB. I took the course just as my boy crossed over so it introduced me to the Patrol Method and the boy led concept in a very demonstrative way. I do wish, though, that I'd had time in the unit first - I would have designed my tickets differently.

     

    Sandy, a Forever Fox, C-16-09

     

  15. Gosh, hopefully your Troop is putting much more than 10% of popcorn sales into the boys' Scout Accounts. My son deposited over $700 from popcorn this year.

     

    Eagle92 and others are spot on. I would add to the equipment list a little, though. Good boots and lots of socks are a must. Boots keep us going because son's feet are still growing, but I'd rather that than messed up feet. They need to be waterproof and count on them getting muddy! For winter he will need a really good base layer of clothing - Under Armor type stuff and polypropylene (which we got used at the Army Surplus store). More than one pair of gloves, too. Our boys also need their own mess kit (we don't allow paper). In addition to a sleeping bag, get your boy a good sleeping mat (not an air mattress; no cots for winter camping!).

     

    Depending on the time of year he is crossing over determines how much/which equipment you need to get right away. I would personally wait on the backpack until the Scoutmaster tells you when he needs it - they are sized to them and he will grow quite a bit in the next year or so.

     

    Our outing this weekend is costing our boys $23 plus enough money to buy dinner at McDonalds. The troop provides tents (we just bought all new ones).

     

    Oh, and high adventure trips, like Philmont, cost a lot more than summer camp. Ours are paying $1100 (give or take) this year for Philmont.

  16. Another resource for problem resolution is your Unit Commissioner and/or District Executive. The DE has a vested interest in the success of every unit in their District. They can often act as mediators.

     

    Postings on Facebook up the ante, IMO, as that is a public forum. Get screen shots of those. Talk to the Committee Chair and have THEM call a committee meeting to which they've invited the Unit Commissioner and ALL committee members. They CM should have the ear of the COR and between them they can remove the disruptive party. The DE can get them removed from scouting all together if the behavior is criminal, which libel can be.

     

    IF you have an engaged COR, invite them. Often, though, the COR doesn't really want to have to deal with any unit business. Depending on who the Charter Organization is internal bickering may be just the excuse they need to back away from the chalupa, as we say.

     

    Good luck to you and your boys. Try to shield them and their parents from all this mess. Whatever happens with this Pack, don't let it get so bad the boys end up quitting scouts - they will be the big losers if that happens. Move them to another unit if you have to in order to prevent that (that's just my opinion, of course).

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