MollieDuke

This is sort of spun off the motivating scouts to wear full uniforms, but in a different vein:

My son's school has different activities each school year that ask that the Boy Scouts of each Troop that has members in that school to come to school in full uniform and participate in the activity. Example: They had a September 11th activity with flag ceremony led by the Boy Scouts in full uniform. They've done other things, too. Our cub scouts we've been involved with have had an honor guard team composed of a first grader, and a variety of up to a Webelo that are first rate. They were trained by a military fella and they have been top notch. They've been invited to parades, pagents, public meetings, etc. to provide the presentation of colors. I've also recently seen a football game where the raising of the colors was done by a Boy Scout group.

I'm wondering what your community might do to encourage the scouters including wearing full uniform along these same lines?

My hubby has an appointment with our local DE tomorrow to discuss several things, but he's going to try to just ask them if they really want this crew to get off the ground. If not, we'll quit trying and just use the local High School to get it in as a "club" for school. We'd rather use the scouts to get the full benefit of scouting for these kids, but if we can't....well, too bad. The point is to reach youth, not gain money for scouting. I do think they've decided to stiffen these requirements just so they can get more money from kids getting in. We're not going to get any more kids this way and believe me, we've tried. If they don't allow us to actively recruit, we're stuck with no crew.

We've started to think that "run away...." is the best thing for a number of reasons. We'll just see how the DE meeting goes and decide from there. It's a shame, though that now we've got 7 scout boys interested and they can't get this off the ground.

Gee, Thanks TrailPounder,

You certainly lived up to your username today for us and we do really appreciate it! We have been racking our brains for why the Council Exec. has interpreted this in this way and all we could really come up with is that we're a small council with few ventures so maybe it's just all new. We really just don't know. They were very excited over this when we started. When we got all our adults, they couldn't believe we had done it in so short a time. Then, we had 3 boys from one Troop interested and 2 more from summer camp which would be our 5 boys, but that's when it hit a major snag and the council said we couldn't do it without non-scouts and that's where it all began to fall apart. We also have repeatedly asked and asked again what part we misunderstood, why we couldn't recruit in public to get these non-scouts (and were told no recruiting till charter was done and that required the 5 non scouts), then it never got any better.

Thanks so much for all your valuable info. Now, at least we can ask for another revisit of this problem since we can honestly say we consulted other crews and scouters and they never did it this way.

I'm excited. We can't wait to go to the local high school and recruit and our charter organization rep can't wait to get her hands on these kids to get started with it all either. Hopefully, by next spring, then, we'll be ready for our first outing!!!

Thanks again, TrailPounder---

In the words of the kids---YOU ROCK!

Thanks,

MollieDuke

This is certainly not what we've been told. Our info has come from our Council Exec. He seems to be quite adamant that this is the only way. Our DE is so frustrated over this. He needs to get this off the ground, too, to meet his personal goals, so it's driving us all nuts---well, except the CE, I guess.

Could one of you guys that has access to the actual requirement type it in here with the name of the publication it came from so we can read the source for ourselves? Is that even possible?

I just feel sure this is one guy's interpretation and it's so contadictory that it's just got to be wrong.

I really appreciate all you are doing to help us out. It's really helping me understand some stuff. I can't believe starting a new crew is this difficult. It's going to be worth it, though, I think. (I hope--Grin)

Actually, we do have an established organization chartering us. However, we were told they could not recruit for us either until we have the 5 required non-scouts registered. I'm at a loss as to how we are supposed to get these kids if no one can tell anyone we exist, you know?

As as ex-committee chair, I am appalled at the committee I'm now involved with. We have about 10 members that show up occasionally. We have a huge power play going on right now with a lot of mind games going on between adults. As far as I have found out there is just myself and a lady I've never seen at a committee meeting that are trained in any way. No one will attend training--not sure why. It's really bad, and it's affecting the boys. The district folk know of the problem and so far they've taken a hands off attitude--again not sure why. It's very frustrating, but the SM seems to care about the boys, so that's why we stay mostly although the temptation to move to another troop is getting stronger all due to this mess. Believe me, if you've got a functioning, trained committee, you can count yourselves among the lucky.

My husband has been trying to charter a new crew for about a year now. He's got all his adults ready to commit and at least 3 boy scouts ready to join. Our council says we cannot go forward until we have 5 boys (non scouts) ready to enroll and that until we do, we cannot advertise, recruit, or otherwise offer this crew to the public.

My question is likely obvious: if we cannot recruit, where do these non scouts come from and how do we get them?

Anyone that has chartered a crew, please contact me ASAP. We need help! This makes no sense to me. I fear our council might be a little misinformed.

Thanks in advance for the help.

MollieD

I didn't go to this, but I'm very interested in it for my son if they do this again. He's interested in West Point or some type of place like that after high school, so this might be good for that plus it sounds like a great time for the scouts. Is there an internet link? Can you send me info? If you like, contact me offline at MollieDuke@epals.com

Thanks,

MollieD

I have a similar problem, and we've decided to stay where we are. Since most of these posts are from those that left, I thought I'd put my post here. Our SM also does not like women in scouting, however, he tolerates me (note:tolerate; not embraces me there), because I do know the book and follow it. I try to pay attention to the boys desires and follow those too. Example: there are outings that the boys seem to want "guy time" and women involved in those activities take away from the experience for them, so I stay home. Believe me, they notice that I've taken my cues from them. I've had boys thank me for staying home. It's nothing personal, it's just some boys like that "guy time". Our SM isn't too interested in Boy Led right now even though when we joined this group part of the reason we chose it was that it had a strong boy led ideal. THe SM has changed. He allows others to dictate to him and he bows down to them to avoid conflict. My son says he feels "sold out" to the mouthy adults. My son has lost a great deal of respect for this man. However, we have a lot of other strong contacts in scouting. We attend other events with other groups like OA events and other district events where we see other groups, so my son sees much more than the little "home" troop. I find that good for my son. The biggest reason we stay is that I can see my son learning how to deal with difficult people, how to be empathetic to situations, how to be loyal, and how to pray for his SM and those above and around him. Plus, he wants to stay to try to better things in any way he can. Right now, he's trying to always wear the complete uniform every week, he's working with new scouts and trying to befriend them, and as he says "not to be a leming and just follow suit, but be the best scout he can be." These are skills that you need all your lives. He's advancing, earning his MB's and all that as well. The biggest thing I think he's missing is a strong adult leader he can look up to within his troop. There are several at the OA and district level to fill that bill, but it's a shame he can't get that in his group. One of the biggest reasons as adults we've never thought of leaving is that we see a need here that we might fill. If this changes tomorrow, we're gone. I think it's a day to day thing, but it's just like your job....nothing is perfect and you do have to deal with idiots all your life. In fact, sometimes you are perceived as the idiot. It's reality. While my son gets discouraged sometimes, it's ultimately his choice to stay or go for me. Right now, he's committed to try to make it better by subtly exhibiting other characteristics that are absent just now. We'll see how it goes.

My son's favorite was just after we moved to another council district. He had gone to a summer camp that was very primitive prior to the move. Tents/no floors, outdoor toilets, etc. Then, after the move went to a summer camp where you camped in cabins, with indoor toilets/showers, etc. "The Hilton" of camps, for him at least. Most of the young boys were cabined together, including him, and were brought by let's say overzealous mom's. My son was quite shocked to see them not only unload tons of cleaning supplies, but proceed to scrub the cabin from floor to ceiling before they'd allow the boys to unload any of their gear. He wonders what they'd have done in the outside camp....lysol the dirt? Ever since, these women are referred to in our house as the LYSOL PATROL.

My son can trade OA flaps and CSP's 1:1 if you're interested. Email me at MollieDuke@epals.com.

Thanks,

MollieDuke

I agree with the previous post that "letter" means snail mail hand written/typed formal letters. The word email is so commonly used and has been for the past years that if it was assumed to be email, it would have said "send a letter" or email which it does not.

I think the intent of some of these badges is to introduce the boys to certain types of arenas they are unfamiliar with which this is one example. You can usually get an official's snail mail address from public record. They may or may not have a published email. Thus, I think this is generally the best way to contact them. While email is an acceptable choice and I've written my Congressmen using email myself, you may not be able to get an email for the local city council people. Thus, snail mail to the mayor's office will arrive.

I also think in "Citizenship in the World" badge where it says to get the rates of exchange from the newspaper--that means newspaper not internet for a reason. The pamphlet discusses the Wall Street Journal and I think this is to introduce the boys to the financial sections of a newspaper especially the famous Wall Street Journal. Granted, the information is the same, but perusing the "Journal" and searching for the currency exchange rates is not exactly the same as typing "currency exchange rates" into Google.

You never know when a boy will find something that intrigues him when he slows down and peruses something instead of that instant gratification of a search engine---at least that's my experience with my 2 boys has been.

Thanks everyone for the replies. I must admit, I hadn't thought of e-books at all. Good point! Answers anyone?.......

Actually, I used the word book arbitrarily, but it illustrated my point. I guess I just feel that if we all follow the book, then we're all doing the same thing.

As for reports, any standard rules of thumb out there????? One page, one paragraph, a doctoral thesis???

Looking for your thoughts on using the internet for resources for merit badges.

Examples: If the merit badge requirement says: "use a book....." and the boy uses the internet, personally I would not pass them as the requirement specifically states BOOK.

Also, in the genealogy merit badge for example:

Example: My family's genealogy is listed incorrectly online. If a child came to me with an internet printout of a family tree he found online not having done the required documentary research himself proving the tree, I wouldn't pass him because the MB book asks them to do research in the public records/cemeteries/and such. It doesn't say pull off the internet.......and because mine is posted by varioius sources incorrectly, I know the internet genealogy is fallible.

Thoughts on this internet dilemma?

Wheeler has definately got my son's number. He is exerting his manhood and breaking from mom to the point that if he breaks farther away, he'll not realize he has a mother. (kidding--well, a little kidding). I'm all for boys growing into good men. In fact, I stay out of Boy Scouting activities to please my son who says it's not Mommy Scouts and he severely dislikes the "Lysol Patrol" which is what he calls mommies that come to scout camp.

However, I do encourage the "old ways" because it makes him take responsibility for his own actions on a level that he normally does not. Example: if you build a pioneering structure and it falls down, you can't blame mommy because she wasn't there.

It's been good for him. He's already got his pioneering badge and his orienteering badge and is working on wilderness survival. At his OA ordeal, he went with a bedroll, a small tarp, a canteen, some rope and flint/steel. He made a shelter, rolled up in his bedroll and went to sleep. The other kids were fascinated that he knew how to get a shelter together so simply and came with little "creature comforts" in his bag, but that's the kind of kid he is. He loved OA ordeal. He learned a lot about himself and that was good.

For these reasons and many others, I want to continue to encourage him. Thanks for all the advice so far and I look forward to showing all this to him this weekend.

MollieD.

My son is becoming interested in the "old ways" of scouting. Specifically right now, he's making his own maps like the ones that used to be required for first class in 1961; semaphore flag signalling (he just got a pair of flags last week); minimalist hiking/camping with a bedroll/yucca pack; and making camp with tree limbs,rope,canvas, etc.

Unfortunately, his troop could care less about any of this. In fact,when they had to do emergency prep, they couldn't get past the fact that to signal an emergency you might not be in a cell phone friendly area. We live in a very rural area, so there isn't much cell service, so why that escaped them, I don't know.

My question is: Do any of you have suggestions to further this interest in ways he could do alone in a rural setting? He loves to go to the local fields and make maps of them and string stuff in trees to make shelter, but if anyone has suggestions for other things to try, please send them our way.

Thanks,

MollieD.

Thanks for all the posts so far. I had heard this as a rumor, but didn't know for sure. As my son had just gotten his Life BOR out of the way and the same night became SPL, it didn't really apply to us except I didn't want it to affect his records in any way or those coming after him.

I knew of the part in the SM handbook, and I've also seen some stuff my son has gotten off this site which was also good.

SPL T15 has a wonderful point, however. I also love the analogy of the "honorable trio". I do think it would be a good idea to do the junior conference with the SM as a Star and the week long as a Life then on to Eagle. Great idea! Good way to break it up and still get it before Eagle.

My son is to have the week long this summer, I think, so it'll be done. I'm glad to know it'll come in handy for Eagle, which he really wants. Good ammunition for making him go to another week long event. (He's basically a homebody--likes his own bed)

My son is fond of saying "it's boy scouts/not mommy scouts." His objection isn't with ALL moms, however. It is with those he laughingly calls "The Lysol Patrol." He hates being with those moms that need the pound of makeup and hairspray then fight mosquitos all day, or can't figure out why there's a grasshopper in the tent (it's the grasshopper's world we're invading, right?). But the situation he really blew his stack over and the one where the Lysol Patrol came from was when he went to summer camp and all these moms (not me) came to camp the first day. They wouldn't let the boys even take their gear inside or put anything on the cots before they thoroughly cleaned every single square inch of their campsite with Lysol. It was very embarrassing for the boys. Our family camps primitively anyhow, so the girls in our family are indoctrinated in a rather acceptable way. The pseudo-Lysol-ers are always going to be a problem for my son, although we get lots of miles teasing him about it in the off time.

Mollie

I heard recently that as of 2004, Junior Leader Training would be a new requirement before earning the Star Scout badge. If this is true, I have questions relating to this. I see no real reason to post a bunch of questions if it isn't true, so please, oh knowledgeable ones, let me know the truth .

Thanks,

Mollie

Bear in mind, I'm a newbie, so this may have been discussed at length before but......

My son is a newly elected OA troop representative. His first BOR and COA since election are coming up soon. My question is then, does he wear his OA sash to either one or just his MB sash? He'll not be exactly in an OA capacity, but he is the troop rep, so in essence he is "always on duty" isn't he? He never wears both together either, correct?

Also, also in our area, several people from young boys to old adults wear their OA sash at the waist over the belt. I can't imagine this would EVER be appropriate--it is a shoulder sash I assume for a reason, but I could be wrong--but is this an accepted/proper practice?

Also, they'll be having uniform inspection this week. Does he wear the MB or OA sash or neither?

My son always wants to "lead by example" so he really wants to do it right.

Thanks for all the help. I'm really glad to learn from y'all.

Regards,

MollieD.

WOW! What a load off my mind! You guys are my new best friends and don't even know it! I have my son's signed book and all his cards. In fact, over Christmas break, I got them all out and started organizing them into a scrapbook for him of sorts. It's a Walmart 3 ring 3 inch binder with plastic sleeves for patches like baseball cards go into (archival quality). I also added all the reports/photos/lists/paperwork for all his merit badges he has earned so far. I put his blue cards and award cards into sleeves and made sections for his stuff by Rank/OA/Positions held/Merit Badges/Misc. I just did this so he'd have a memory album of his trail to Eagle, but it seems like it will be a good double duty book. Our old councils used advancement forms as records only. That's why I was trying so hard to get all this stuff. Yipee!!! As for me and my husband, well, we did all that online fast start and "safety" training but couldn't get the certificates. We've decided to persue a more involved path anyhow, so we will have to have more training. We're starting over and moving from there. Sounds like it's going to be the best idea since it seems like we learned a specific council way and not the "scouting" way. I think we need to be re-informed.

Thanks for so much info and what a relief!!!

Regards,

MollieD.

In the information age, this shouldn't be this difficult. We moved areas 3 times in the past 8 years. Thus, we have 3 separate councils to deal with. Not only are we having difficulty getting my son's records from his previous councils, but we can't get our own training records. All requests fall on deaf ears, I guess. My hubby and I both re-took all online training and were told the certificates would be sent to our new local council office. The district offices say they don't know what online training is (even though we accessed it from the local council's own website). We tried calling National, but they said to go back to the district. Anyone have any advice?

MollieD

Our historian also does an interesting thing by keeping a notebook to record "who is there" at every meeting/activity. With their ranks/positions/whatever, it would make a good record to know who was where and if any leadership needed to know if "Johnny Junior" was at a certain campout/fundraising activity, then just look at the notebook. We also take photos, etc. One other thing the historian did which was SUPER I thought was create a power point program for an Eagle COH. Then the CD was given to the boy's parents and one for him. It was filled with photos of the boy at different scouting activities as well as other "scout related" photos supplied by his parents. I think that was one of the best ideas I'd seen in awhile for a gift for the boy and parents.

MollieD.

What neat stories. I love the idea of collecting patches from vacations and such. I would have never thought of that. My son is in the OA. We moved to another state last year and his former scoutmaster is still a good friend of ours. When he heard my son was in OA he sent him several flaps for OA as a gift. Some are very beautiful just like the CSP's. The artwork involved is amazing.

My son's former scoutmaster has designed CSP's for different things and he sends my son his designs. It's neat.

Keep the good ideas coming. By the way, the cocoa and marshmallow's are great .

Thanks,

Mollie

My son is a new trader. My question is: how do you decide what to trade? Example: He likes Council Patches. Do you try to get one from each state, or is there another collection method that's better for newbies? Also, storage: what seems to work best for you all? We use a 3 ring binder right now with sleeves. I know BSA makes patch collection books, but I want him to be able to start small then work up to that as he sees if he likes this or not. Any advice is appreciated.

Please private message me if you like, so I don't take up forum space with such a basic question.

Thanks, Mollie