MichaelOA

Okay, thanks.

(My 4th isn't going to be so great... but I hope you have a good one.)

Okay, thank you. I'm done.

Confused... how does that page, say that more specifically this. "Scouts come from all walks of life and are exposed to diversity in Scouting that they may not otherwise experience. The Boy Scouts of America aims to allow youth to live and learn as children and enjoy Scouting without immersing them in the politics of the day." But then they don't allow atheists?

Also, is there a better way to talk about this so that we don't start a debate?

Well, I never did exactly understand the reason, for not allowing Atheists to be in the Boy Scouts. I am not looking for arguments, or meaningless posts like 'look at the 12th point of the scout law' or something like that, I want the actual reasons behind not allowing atheists in the boy scouts. I was reading into some boy scout stuff, and I found websites that all have similar topics as this 'The 19-year-old Eagle Scout, the subject of national attention after being booted out of the organization last month for being an atheist.' Or about a scoutmaster being kicked out or something. I don't get how being an atheist can change what you gain from being a boy scout, and if it is about the kids then how come deny atheists that right? I was hoping for some ACTUAL information, maybe some history of how this got started, and so forth.

You seem to have the wrong idea about this, I am not trying to exclude him from the group, but with him having a job, college, and other things he needs to keep track of he CANT put in as much time as we need. I'm also trying to look for what is best for him, and the ceremony team. He never seemed to have any 'flare' for the ceremony team, it's not that we are trying to exclude him, but maybe think of a way to move him to a backup or a less immediate part, that doesn't require as much attendance, it isn't good for the group, or the people attending the ceremony, if one member is absent, or doesn't know their part.

What is a C-team chair?(This message has been edited by MichaelOA)

Well, for my chapter's ceremony team, we went through about 5 people on one of the main parts, we finally got someone who sorta pulled through for us during our ordeal, but he is 19 years old, the rest of us are around 14, 15 so 19 years old is kind of a huge gap. We have multiple people now who are very excited about the O.A. one of them really stands out from the rest, and the adults, and all the youths except our 19 year old have given some thought into letting one of these new boys doing it.

Some main factors for wanting this is the fact, if he is 19 in around a year or so he is going to have to leave the ceremony team, and we have to hurry someone else and get them ready. We practice every week for about 4-5 months first Ordeal went perfect minus our 19 year old, since he joined a couple weeks before. Another reason, he has a life (O.o) at age 19 you don't have time for all the rehearsals, and possibly going to the actual ceremony. He has a job that requires a lot of his time, and college so to push this on him seems like it would just be to much anyway, and it doesn't seem like something we can rely on to much, and be confident that he WILL be at the rehearsals often, and especially that he WILL be at the actual ceremonies.

If anyone has any tips please, I would appreciate it.

Yowlumne #303 - Southern Sierra Council

Well, this weekend is my council's first ordeal of the year, I'm going as an OA Member (arrow man) to help out, those who have access to the Safeguarded OA Discussions know what, I am doing but I'm not 100% sure if I am allowed to even talk about it o.O, if I am then correct me, I'm not 100% sure what is allowed out of safeguard and what isn't. Just saying welcome all new candidates from all the other councils out there, I'm assuming most councils do the Ordeals around the same time not sure, but hey welcome to the OA guys

Actually, I already did NYLT last year, and either way our council only does it once every two years. (I was one of the guinea pigs last year was my council's first ever NYLT.) But I will most likely be attending next year, I got offered to serve as staff (troop guide) so I will see what I can do next year, and it never hurts to get some review.(This message has been edited by MichaelOA)

I think I got it now, I am going for Troop Guide, I understand what I am supposed to do in this position and how to do it. I haven't posted back because the last 2-3 pages haven't left a spot for me to say anything without interrupting the conversation. Thanks for the help everyone. After 6 months of being troop guide, I plan to be the OA Rep. come my 16th birthday my scoutmaster wants me to become a JASM (hope I am still a good leader in a year ) So I guess that's my future in scouting

(I hope by then I am very close to eagle, or am an eagle.)

"2. There is only one troop elected position SPL, and one elected patrol position PL. All other positions are selected by the SPL or PL. You do not "run " for JASM."

As much as I would like that idea, my scoutmaster doesn't. The only thing I as an SPL ever got to appoint, was the ASPL. And my scoutmaster isn't going to let this SPL do that. Sadly, how the troop runs is how the SM, wants to run it :|

I'll look into the high adventure thing, currently our troop doesn't do any of that, I only get to do that kind of stuff at summer camp . Starting a venture crew or patrol would be nice, but right now we aren't exactly the biggest troop, and most of our scouts are younger. So maybe in a year or two. Our troop is only 4ish years old I was actually one of the first three boys in the beginning and sadly the only one left, one moved and one lost interest in scouting. Thanks for all the tips everyone, and goodnight

Thanks for the advice, our patrols are set up as:

Senior Patrol, Middle Patrol, and the New Scout Patrol.

So, I guess I would be helpin' da noobs. (Beavah your internet dialect accent thing is contagious.)

Well, I can do both PORs very well, my situation is this:

I want to be the JASM IF I can, but my SM says that according to the official word of the BSA I must be at the age of 16, I currently am not (15). If I could not do JASM, I offered doing the position of Troop Guide, since it still seemed to be a leadership position, our previous Troop Guide disassociated himself from the younger scouts, and I am currently our most "qualified" scout in our troop. So Troop Guide is fine by me, I would enjoy it- but what I want to do most is JASM. I tried looking on scouting.com but I cant find anything about JASM requirements. If someone could help direct me to them I would greatly appreciate it. What I love doing is leading, I'm good at it, and it's fun.

"Requirements for JASM are set by your unit. JASM is often a position taken by former SPLs. In most units, JASM is a position appointed by the SM." - Beavah

I contacted my scoutmaster about this, he told me that according to the official boyscout website that you need to be 16 years old, I told him that scouter.com told me that the troop decides he just told me that since scouter.com isn't official it doesn't matter, so I was wondering, if when you said requirements you meant rank, or is there no age restriction?

(Instead he wants me to be a Troop Guide. What does a Troop Guide really do? Our last one before moving did absolutely nothing.)(This message has been edited by MichaelOA)

Well, thank you for the replies everyone. I now have a well formed idea about how this works now. Would it still be called a chain of command?

Well, I don't know about TLT, but some things at NYLT taught us to not exact lead as much, what I did is mixed what they taught me with what works for me, and my troop. Not every single, patrol, and troop is exactly the same. What worked for one group might not necessarily work for yours. Tell your son he needs to find a balance, take the leadership skills he learned, from TLT, and take the ones he taught himself, or naturally had and find a balance. In NYLT they taught us, once your troop/patrol knows how to do something leave them to do it them selves and watch from the sidelines.

"forming, storming, norming, and performing"

Once your group reaches performing doesn't mean you should just sit and watch, then you as a leader are no longer needed why even have a leader? And there is no fun in it. Going over the troop/patrol with harder tasks in the same area helps them form even once reaching the performing stage. Always stay with your group as a leader or a member you shouldn't be just standing on the sidelines.

Well, two reasons.

1. Our SM gave me a chart of the "chain of command" but it's basically what I stated in the beginning, and after talking to some people in other troops they had different but similar versions, I wanted to know if there was an official version, and if so what.

2. After being the SPL for 3 long years, I decided at this upcoming election probably next week, that I'm not going to run, and cast my vote for my ASPL. Instead I wanted to run for the position of JASM. (At this point, I'm still unsure if that is an election by troop, committee, or scoutmaster.) I WAS wondering who was in charge of who. But now I'm going to try and present this new group method to my scoutmaster possibly at the next committee meeting.

P.s. What is the requirement if any for JASM, I have heard many different ones from different people I tried searching on the forum with little luck, different threads with different answers. So is there even a requirement or what?

I don't know about other councils, since my council has only had 1 NYLT course in it's lifetime which was last year actually, But our NYLT course was 90% youth staffers, only like 4-5 adults.

SM - ASM - T. QM - SPL

The rest of the staff were youths:

Troop Guide x8

Scouts:

PL x8 - APLx8 - and so on.

So I don't think ours gives away beads. But then, I'm not sure, I'm not one of the adults

I don't know about other councils, since my council has only had 1 NYLT course in it's lifetime which was last year actually, But our NYLT course was 90% youth staffers, only like 4-5 adults.

SM - ASM - T. QM - SPL

The rest of the staff were youths:

Troop Guide x8

Scouts:

PL x8 - APLx8 - and so on.

So I don't think ours gives away beads. But then, I'm not sure, I'm not one of the adults

Found this thread, and something came to my mind. If for every 50 scouts, 1 adult leader may be elected for candidacy in the OA. Now what happens if we have a ASM who had come into our troop already a member of the OA, does he count as our 1 adult - 50 scouts, or since he was already a member before joining us can we still elect an adult leader?

So, in other words if I understand correctly, no one is in charge of someone, there are different groups.

SM, ASM, JASM, (SPL?)

SPL, ASPL, PL, APL

PL, APL, Scouts

No group necessarily is "in charge" of another group, but they keep each other in check? Each group working to help improve the other group. If I am missing something feel free to correct me, if I gathered the information correctly from an average it's basically this?

Well, I tried searching but I can't find a chain of command anywhere.

I want it to include all leaders, adult and youth.

CC, SM, ASM, JASM, SPL, ASPL, PL, APL

I'm assuming it works kinda like that, but wasn't sure about JASM, and the SPL who is leading who in that part? And does the JASM even lead anyone?

Well, I'd say around that age is perfect. They aren't to young so they have some experience in scouting, leading, their troop, and scouting activities. As well as not being so old that the "spark" is already gone in scouting for them. I became and SPL, probably to early for me, I was 12, an extra year in scouting before SPL would probably have been nice to help me become better in scouting. I'm still learning a lot of information (I am still the current SPL), more than most of the other scouts in my troop. Being the SPL you get certain benefits the other scouts might not have the opportunity to take, I'd suggest the candidates all go for NYLT, or Junior Leadership Training (JLT), AKA Troop Leadership Training (TLT). I have had the position as SPL for around 3 year now. Being the SPL pushes the scout to try their best, so they can represent their troop as best as they can. That extra push can actually ignite the scouting spirit, and cause them to work harder not only in meetings, but at home and actually pick up the book again go over some skills like knots. It helps giving younger scouts these leadership positions it helps them grow as a better leader. A 3 year term isn't exactly necessary though, nor is being the SPL. Try them out as an ASPL before moving them to SPL. My troop so far has never had an SPL that wasn't an ASPL at some time. We want them to have some experience leading the whole troop, not just a patrol. It gives them a chance to lead the troop in possibly a fund raiser, if the SPL can't make it they get to lead a troop meeting, and activities. It is a lot different actually standing up there, than watching from the side lines and guessing what it is like.

//MichaelOA

Souther Sierra Council(This message has been edited by MichaelOA)

Kinda, LOL It's different, but dunno what it really is...

Our council does both kinda... We get all the OA Members at the camp and we have the four principles (not ordeal) North, South, East, and West, winds and they do a small intro, and then all the OA Members go into the crowd, and we look for the signal given by the scoutmaster as to which scout is a candidate we usually grab them by the arm and guide them to the circle formed out of candidates, each candidate gets two OA Members and after being dropped of the OA Members return to look for more candidates, and the boy waits until all candidates are found, in which time they follow the circle leading to the main principle (North Wind) and tell him their name, and troop #, and the principle will then announce it, and welcome the candidate, and two OA Guides take the boy in the back until after the ceremony is finished. So is ours more of a call out, or tap out?