MichaelOA

I used Dreamweaver CS3 for my OA's Chapter website. It works better than I could hope, (yay for my school and their student license)

My council, has only done NYLT once, and was slightly lacking, but to be honest I think it was just because we were the guinea pigs. We never really went over boy led that much, our main focus was working on communication it seemed, but we did learn somethings about leading the troop, which in some ways can be thought of or put into practice for a boy led group. I found no big flaws in the program really. Maybe it's just how your council ran the program. It can only run as well as the people leading it, and sadly that's not always the best people for the program.

(Added:)

The NYLT program, should only strengthen the bond, and leadership within your troop and patrols. So if what your troop is learning at NYLT is contradicting that you might want to talk more about it with them, and consider speaking to the person in charge of the program in your council, make some suggestions and find out what really happened, what they went over, and how they can improve it. If no one ever says anything issues can't be fixed, and they will assume the program is working correctly.(This message has been edited by MichaelOA)

Figured such, my asst. scoutmaster has that same issue with his sash also though =D

"I washed my sash from my youth and it must have shrunk because it barely makes it across the chess and under my left arm pit."

Doubt it's from washing it But I'm guessing you were already implying that, and I just killed the joke =D

"A question that immediately comes to my mind is "How were the Cubs to know that the couple wasn't married?""

That really doesn't matter, does it? The rule is there, he's a paid representative of BSA so he has even a stronger obligation to abide by the rules than we mere volunteers. -Gold Winger

Doesn't matter? Why would it matter, if no scouts noticed, or know of their martial status. It seems to me, either your such a stickler for rules that have no effect on the scouting program, or at least in this situation, or you are just attacking this man, who for all you know could be improving the scouting program greatly. So lets look at it like this.

*Engaged Party shares a Cabin

*Scouts most likely don't know their martial status.

The two previous events have no impact on the scouts, or the program.

*Someone files a report, over something so small as this.

*Active, helpful scouter is no longer part of the program.

*Program gets weaker.

The three previous events do impact the program in a negative way.

Was there any wrong/bad impact on the scouting program at all? How does this effect the scouts? Instead of putting what's in the rule book, think of the boys. They don't get any bad moral lessons since they don't know if they are married or not, or that they even did anything, their cub scouts, if sex is on their mind so much they think of that first then something else is majorly wrong. How you as adults view it is different then that of a cub scout. I really think, some rules need to be bent, and sometimes some can be bent without a negative point.

Hey, maybe it's just cuz I've never read the G2SS, and maybe hey I'm just a youth I don't know anything. But what I see on average from other troops locally and even from different councils, the leaders always fail to look at it from the kids point of view, or for the full benefit of the children. They go by the book 100% of the time, and they don't realized the book, is a GUIDE not to a leader. They need to lead, not go 100% by the book, the book wasn't written for every troop. To think one book, can perfectly match every situation is impossible, and if it did, this website wouldn't exist now would it.

There's my rant. Maybe spinning it off into some argument thread if there is one would be a better idea.

If they're engaged does it really matter? I mean even if the rules say only married couples, why does it matter if they share one, if they are engaged, why is this such an issue to you anyway? So I guess what I'm asking is why do you care so much, if it really doesn't seem like it's any of your business, and it seems like your making a big deal about something so small that can get a man out of a job. Is that the objective?

Either way, I guess it's not my business as to your reasons, but I'd assuming by your post, that it was approved by someone above him. (Though that doesn't necessarily mean it's allowed.)

I was told, that the OA has no secrets so I don't think it would be

Well, you've heard it from the adult perspective now let's hear what this youth has to say. OA for me, has been a big boost in my leadership skills, communication, and social skills, which I hope is something ever parent and scoutmaster wants to see in their kids. Let's dive deeper into those new found skills the OA helped me achieve.

*Leadership Skills - Well, as current Ceremony Team Leader, and runnning for Lodge Chief this month, I've had to deal with things that I wouldn't normal see in my troop and can even be more realistic and preparing me for the real world. I had also helped run the Ordeal and with all the issues going on it's something we see more in life, not as much scouting. The OA actually is Youth run, there is no scoutmaster hovering by watching for mistakes or correcting everything wrong. Which is how it is in life, and the OA can better prepare you for that.

*Communication - This is a BIG part of being a good leader, and being an overall better seeming person. If you need some work in communication OA is great for you! With Ceremony Teams, Elangomats, Dance Teams, Leadership positions and more, there are just so many ways to help you become a better communicator. Work for months non stop for something like the ordeal ceremonies and to go out there for your first time, in front of hundreds of people, just wow. It really is something, especially when you pull it off nicely. Which is also good for self motivation, and feeling good about yourself.

*Social Skills - Similar to communication, but a few extra things. The OA is a BIG group, and full of tons of people. It's a great place to meet new friends, learn something new. Between just seasonal fellowships within your lodge, to a section wide conclave, to the national order of the arrow conference. You can always meet new people, and always some new connection out there for you to make.

So, you decide. Do you want to give these new adventures and tasks to your scouts/kids. Is it worth it? And when you decide try talking about the positive parts of the OA you've read here, let him decide based on that if the OA is something for him. But please, don't choose what's best for him, let him decide, and stay behind his decision and support it. There is nothing wrong with helping them out every once and a while with a decision, but don't force things on them, especially something life changing like this can be.

W.W.W.

-Michael

"About the babysitting ASM: Obviously, I wasn't there. However, I was told by someone who was, that he spent the night in his son's immediate physical proximity, against all the rules. And it was ONLY his son who was elected; he was not."

Well, for the babysitting ASM, parents are welcome to attend the ordeal to be/watch their child especially if there is any concerns. Now, spending the night closely to his son, I just hope that safe scouting was followed, especially if inside of a tent or cabin, as my council lets the new arrowmen use the camp cabins at the end of the ordeal.

I would think, being members of the CO, they could force you to let them go anyway, but also being members of the CO you should be more than happy to let them attend a camping trip, not many troops, I have seen (just cuz I'm a youth doesn't mean that's not a lot either) have basically no relationship with their CO other than maybe a place for meetings. Having them see the program, and possibly become scouters would be beneficial to the troop, you might get more "benefits" and isn't it nicer knowing your CO likes you instead of not knowing you exist or even hating you? I say, if they seem trustworthy let em go with you once, during or shortly after the camping trip maybe asking them to join the committee, as a possible ASM or even just committee members.

Wow, Awesome Kudo. I will definitely be sending this to my Scoutmaster, our troop only gets 1-3 boys per year, so this will definitely help.(This message has been edited by MichaelOA)

"Notice that it is not the SCoputmaster's role to select you but to guide the SPL's decision in who is selected. Not everyone who turns 16 is supposed to be made a JASM."

Well, like previously said my troop doesn't run by the SPL's choices in anything, it's all an election, or the committee.

Looked in the index, only reference was found on Page 26.

"Junior Assistant Scoutmasters

These are young men ages 16 and 17 who help the troop achieve its goals."

To me, that is a little bit lacking of detail.

Well, I don't know how accurate that is, as I have never seen much about the JASM in anything, but I also don't have a SM handbook. But it would seem to me that a lot of troops, either use this position incorrectly, or just don't really use it altogether.

No resentment towards my SM, in fact I respect him deeply, and I understand his duties as such. If there was anything picked up in such a way, it might have been that I would prefer that in the beginning of the term for any leadership position, he guided them as he does now, but starts cutting back more, and preparing them to lead and if you keep with the same program for the same scout on how the troop will run, there wont be much progress. The current SPL, and myself have both taken the NYLT course, and in the near future our scoutmaster is taking the "top leaders" in our troop for a JLT or TLT not sure what they're calling it today. Which is beneficial in many ways, but I hope to speak with him on giving the course to possibly the whole troop, or all who wish to participate at the moment it will only be the current SPL, ASPL, PL, APL, and myself. So maybe if the other scouts get in on some of the training when it's there turn to be on of the many leadership positions they will not need as much of a boost, and we can't get just that much closer to being a boy run troop.

Well, that would only work in a boy led troop, mine was getting really close to being that way, but when I stopped running for the SPL, the new one, is still learning and doesn't really want help with it from what I've noticed. In fact he had recently told me, it was his job now not mine, and I'm not supposed to help. (To bad I'm currently the TG and I will anyway.) Our troop is basically being led by the SM just talking through the current SPL, so even if it is the SPL talking, the words are really coming from the SM. So with it not even being near a boy led troop maybe the JASM will be more useful in mine, or maybe when I'm 16 it will be boy run. Still looking for advice of how most troops use their JASM. It would seem he is just considered a transition from boy to adult membership in the BSA, and not much more.

(Off Topic: Out of the group running, our new SPL was the best choice. And I'm sure soon he will become a better leader, the issue is the majority boys in the troop wont listen to him.)

http://www.jumpstart.oa-bsa.org/

If you are a current member in the OA, you can always get your hands on the O.A. Handbook, since I'm assuming most people who don't know the Admonition are newer members to the order, they should all have their own OA handbook. If you are a member of a different book, that wont work for getting into the jumpstart page, try contacting your Lodge Advisor, or next time you are at a chapter/lodge exec meeting, just ask the person next to you. No one is trying to keep you out, if you're a member, so getting help shouldn't be difficult.

Thanks for the comments, I really appreciate the help I can find here. On a side note I'm not the JASM, yet. My Scoutmaster is intent on keeping me TG until my sixteenth birthday, so that being eight months away, I have some time to keep learning, and furthering my skills as a better leader, person, and to mature.

//Michael SSC BSA

"The only problem with the Boy Scouts... is that there aren't enough of 'em" -Will Rogers

Well, I want to know all the details I can about the JASM. And I want to clarify a few things, mainly I started this topic to see if there is a set rule for who the JASM is with during troop activities, and camp outs.

For examples, I asked my scoutmaster and he said when I become the JASM I will no longer be able to share a tent with the other youth members, and I will have to have my own tent in the adult camp, is this a BSA Rule or just my scoutmaster? If this is a BSA rule, what else can't I do with the youths, will I still eat with them, or hike, or participate in activities?

Thanks

Michael //SSC BSA

As far as I know it works like this: (for cub scouts, and boy scouts)

Official Uniform, salute using the '(cub) scout salute' with the right hand over your right temple, (of course).

Now an interesting thing I learned in cub scouting, and my council actually pushes for all troops is when in a Class-B (Field Uniform), or just normal clothing you would make the '(cub) scout salute) and place it over your heart, with the index finger touching you and going outwards in front.

I'm not sure if national has an exact policy on this, but I find it interesting and I plan to continue doing it that way.

Wow... That is one of the dumbest things, I have ever seen or read. How can something like taste, determine if you are (not) a racist? I hope the children, or organization don't get reprimanded for something as stupid as this.

-Edit:

It's nice and all that they are trying to work on any racism issues, but when you think about how many people (especially toddlers, or kids in general) can you name, that enjoy every type of food out there and aren't in the least bit picky over what they eat. I can't name a single person.(This message has been edited by MichaelOA)

Two questions:

1.) So a youth may be agnostic/atheist?

2.) "Once an Eagle, always an Eagle." Is that true for an atheist? (Is it something that can be revoked?)

Hey now you got the 15 year old in here, Gonzo, I'm with Merlyn on this one thing, he said you have to have a faith in order to have membership in the BSA. Then you make the post:

"Merlyn writes: "The only relevant factors are what BSA officials have said regarding whether belief in god is a membership requirement. They have; it is."

'Gonzo writes: Put a fork in it, you're done. Stop trying to change the BSA requirements for membership, belief in God IS A REQUIREMENT FOR MEMBERSHIP.'

Bye bye."

So what is worse, is you posted a quote from him stating what you were agreeing with and telling him to put a fork in it, and that he is trying to change the BSA Requirements, so I guess what really bugs me is, because he is someone you normally don't agree with or you dislike and I can only assume that you stand by Bob more often, you decide to just ignore the post and copy it and side with someone you didn't agree with and argue with someone you did.

How does that make any sense? Not really being very courteous, kind, and especially not cheerful.

-Michael(This message has been edited by MichaelOA)

Yay Beavah is here, thanks for all the advice everyone. I got a PM on it that explained some history, and I got all you guys helping out here, thanks Beavah for the last comment, it made sense when you put it that way. And I can kinda see why the rule is there.

Since, I already gathered all I think I can/will without starting a debate, could a moderator please close this thread?