Mafaking

I wrote my own.

BSA training material for actually training youth leaders is poor. I found some old BSA leadership training manuals and PL handbook that offered the stuff I was looking for. I also bought the entire White Stage training manual plus used resource from Greenleaf's servant leadership.

In the spun thread the scout in question was selling water at parade. One could presume that it was a booth that multiple scouts worked at the same time. No one scout made a huge contribution to the total sales. All contributed but no one scout mattered that much. It was likely over staffed from a pure economic view.

Now if this were individual popcorn sales where the scout walked to his neighbors and made the sales then it might be a little different. All revenue could be attributed to that one scout.

Look up

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Look down

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See any ads?

Scouter.com is likely short on funds to upgrade.

I bet Lodge cookware, campmor, REI, Cabelas, plus many outfitters would be willing to pony up good money to get your eyeballs.

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NancyB, you are trying to get $300 that never came out of your check book credited back to you? Because your son worked during a hot day. eeek!

The fundraiser was a specific event for Jambo scouts. At the time your son was enrolled in Jambo. Now his enrollment has been rescinded. No refund or soup for you. Besides the "adults' are not taking "his" money. It was never in his pocket and it was always meant to go to the Jambo program. Those thieving "adults" are the ones taking two weeks off work and time from their families to be responsible for few dozen teenage boys as they cross many miles and nights to get there.

For goodness sake, let the $300 fundraiser dollars go to the scouts going to Jambo.

How are you not on the hook for the Jambo balance?

Engineer61

You think the SM's or a group of Committee members would have been harsher?

Well the PLC met last night to review the incident.

The PLC less those involved included four scouts; 3-8th graders and one 9th grader.

The four scouts and I went to a some what isolated area and called the scouts involved over one by one. The scouts and I asked questions. A few on the PLC had some very intriguing insight on what happened and asked for a demonstration on what occurred. The scouts demonstrated high level understanding of motives and characteristics traits.

The principle aggressor was interviewed first then the other who were involved or present.

After all were interviewed we held a closed discussion. The scouts did most of the talking as we reviewed the most plausible scenario. Then I asked the open question, What do we want to do as punishment? Several ideas went back and forth and in the end they decided the following:

The scouts involved will be assigned to work together as a team at the next service project.

The principle aggressor will write a 500 word paper and present it to the troop on; How working together as a cooperative team can add to an effective troop and patrol development.

(This message has been edited by Mafaking)

Call me a cynic but these parents will be better at this game than you will be. At least the parents I have had seem to look for clever ways to get around and skirt well intentioned policies at every chance.

Across the board firm policies and rules that are enforced are all that these people will understand. Do not waver on this by accepting emails from parents.

In person requests or phone calls can be all that are accepted. If the scouts shows up on a troop night and wants a conference or a MB counselor session that he thought is dad arranged, "I am sorry I require a phone call like the one we discussed at the last troop meeting."

Parents used to hand me MB's not any more.

"I have to admit to not understanding what:

"Certaining a sub group of adults woul;d be prefered. Yes?"

Means??

Ea. "

My apologies, I ran out of time to get that thought out. I was called to dinner.

What I meant; our committee consists of about 20 some people. Its more of a parents club than a committee. I don't want to present this particular scout or any scout in front of 20 adults all of which could fire a question at him at any time. Little good would come from a forum like that. A smaller sub group would be preferable, something like a three member board.

The point I was trying to make about the cops:

Self monitored youths is the concept I was attempting to make. For example: ideally the SPL or a senior scout would break-up or diffuse the situation without an adult having to be present. The goal is to have well mannered youths who recognize when situations are going bad and step in to provide leadership and moral stability when an adult is not there.

That is, the scouts don't require a Constable (read SM) on ever corner to keep the peace.

"I would have to say that this is a matter for the PLC, Scoutmaster, and the Assistant Scoutmasters"

This is the direction I will likely take. The SPL is a very level headed scout and extremely analytical. He will approach this logically. Plus I need/want these scouts to self monitor. If a SM has to be 30' away at all times it is not exactly fostering self reliance.

"A BOR??

Not sure where that one came from?"

Horizon Mentioned it!

Eamonn From your cut and paste it would be a committe function to review this. Would you not consider a BOR a committe's approach to relating to the scout? Or would you prefer the accused be brought before the whole committee, COR and all for questioning. Certaining a sub group of adults woul;d be prefered. Yes?

As far as the PLC, isn't not true that the best monitoring of behavior comes from their peers? Or should the SM be the cops?

You said you are not involved but the wife is.

I have had more then my share of domestic disputes between divorcing parents. One parent likes scouting and the other feels its stealing time from their visitation rights. It goes down hill from there.

Since the biological mom is involved they are likely keeping their distance from you. Especially if you have expressed a non-value added compliant about the benefits of scouting.

For a while your plan should be to keep a very distant supporting role. Your financial support will be more valuable and appreciated then your grumbling pessimism on campout about the non-benefits of scouting.

"I would have sent the kid home."

I didn't so move off of that.

This is still real time. I can push this on the PLC, hold an BOR Inquisition. Suspended him from campouts for six month, have him write a letter.....

Schools use a zero tolerence policy. I don't wish to use such draconian measures in scouts.

A little more to the story.

According to the dad, after taking the stick one of the other three boys jumped on his boy. That's how that one boy was tossed from his boys' back and into the thorn bushes.

I appreciate that I missed one good opportunity at the campout by not sending the scout home. I measured the consequences of everything involved and made the decision not to call out the dad based on how the scouts and parents would react. The father will come down hard on his son for his actions. Had I called him out the son and the father would have been the victim of unfair punishment.

The father has been told that he must attend the next few campout with his son. The father was planning to go to summer camp already.

dg98adams wrote:

"I am gonna bet the aggressor is bigger/and older."

Yep!

Two grades up and a foot taller.

On a recent campout one scout messed it up with two other scouts.

The story

The scouts had free time between 3:00 - 5:00. In the area around the campsite the scouts ganged up into hideouts. The breakdown was almost by patrol but not entirely.

One scout goes over to another gangs HQ and grabs a favorite stick. The scouts come back see that their favorite stick is gone and head over to firmly demand the return of their favorite stick. The scout who took the stick jumps on one of the scouts and trows him into the thorn bushes. Then the same aggressor jumps on another scout strangles him, them releases him on the ground. Then the aggressor flips off the scout on the ground, wishes he were dead and when the scout gets up the aggressor cold cocks him in the eye.

When confronted I hear all sorts of stories about the stick and where it came from...

Finally when asked to apologise the aggressor says he doesn't regret it one bit. They deserved it. he says

He has no remorse.

I didn't send the scout home. He is a special needs scout whose father was so proud that his son was finally going camping without him. I spoke to the father upon on return our return Sunday and told hom the whole story. His father said that around 5:00 PM is when is medice wears off.

I told the scout who was strangled and again his mother that his actions were examplerly. He did everything right.

thoughts?

(This message has been edited by mafaking)

I wish the roundtables were were more adult and business like.

Too much silly critter nonsense going on. Our meetings always have a mock opening for a Cubscout pack. The songs and skits are just a waste. If the takes-away meetings seems to be "keep it fun folks". If that's it we get it! In fact from what I have seen we need the scouts to take their positions more seriously. Not less.

The breakouts are too water down very little if any educational value. Seldom do we have guest speakers. None in the last two years have focused one youth leadership development. Its usually diversity awareness, LNT, public service, life long hobbies.... BLAND! Anyone can teach that stuff.

Help me understand boys. Its been 40 year since I was one and my memory is fading. Why does a 14 year SPL clueless about what needs to happen on a campout? He been in scout since a tiger cub, completed NYLT The campout is reviewed at the PLC, yet he reads a book and needs to be jolted from his trance to get his patrol leaders working.

Bring in some one who can explain that. I can teach the scouts how to pick up litter around a campsite.

No I don't has a source but if you find one please post it.

I would say the average life of a Coleman mantel is 1.3 campouts. I am tempted to replace mantels at the beginning of every outing. And even more tempted to dump these for electric lights.

I think I did a quick calc one time that rated propane as cheaper than d-batteries. Comparing life expectancy of a four D-Cell 2-fluorescent light with a twin mantle lantern. But we break glasses, mantels are forever failing. propane is sometimes hard for the boys the screw on without cross threading.

I like the light of a propane but in my personal bag is a beat-up LED lantern that has been through a lot.

If Jambo can't compete head on with text messaging then taking the phone way ain't going to improve it.

If you travel for work you will know that taking a call from your wife/husband is very hard on the road. Its hard to break away from the activities to have a private conversation and more than likely you are already over scheduled.

If they are sitting around the campiste in the middle of the day. By all mean chase them out and reserve the right to confiscate the phone. Our scouts will have a ~4 days of traveling and events before they get to Jambo. They will already be de-connecting from daily life by the time they reach camp.

I doubt it will be an issue.

We usually have the troop treasury buy the main dish, hamburgers, chicken,or ribs. If not the leaders will pool $10 bucks each and one of us will pick up the main meal. The rest are assigne salads and desserts.

Usually its a once through thing until a call for seconds goes outs. But we are a boy scout troop and the scouts and parents have a little better understanding of what to expect.

Merit Badge sign-up is in two weeks. Next week we go over the badges being offered. Then ask the scouts to commit.

For some of our scouts this will be their fourth summer camp. A few are doing Jambo and summer camp.

Got your cross-overs signed up for the camp's Mountain Man program?

What Camp was it?

Two years ago when our committee began the process of developing by-laws I thought great, some aspects of unit can be defined. Especially adult behavior. Instead it turned into a document to handcuff the scoutmaster and push all decisions to the committee chair. The committee asked me to review by-laws. I did then never got back to them. I let this particular dumb document die in review. A few months later we got a new CC. The new CC was not interested in running all program and financial decisions through him. The by-laws are dead; for now anyway.

There are always By-laws within a troop its just that some troops have not codified them. When a SM pulls a scout aside and tells him he needs to show more leadership as the SPL by wearing the uniform, that's a governing policy of the SM's. Its not written down but its troop policy even though BSA does not require it.

I think too often the inturpetion of rules, designed to cover all situations across the nation are taken to an extreme. The BSA guideline of not requiring a uniform were design for hardship cases where the family can not aford the cost of the uniform. Not because some teenager was too lazy to grab his pants out of the clothes dryer before he went to scouting.

Written down or not Good call on the part of the BOR.

Former DL's make very good scout leaders. As mentioned earlier they have a predisposition to serve. They finish what is asked of them. What an ASM or committee member will be asked to do when they first join the troop is well within the bounds of seasoned adult cub leader. They may be asked to help the QM sort out or stage the gear for a trip but they won't be asked to make judgements on his scout spirit or POR.

Another example are the subtleties of the Advancement Chair in coaching and directing BOR's. This I have found requires a seasoned scouter to plan and guide the adults. Sitting on the board can be something for a newly crossed adult. Also the grub-master for the adult patrol and other food related responsibilities seem to fall on the new adults.

But your question is who makes the better scoutmaster a cub leader or one who was never a cub leader? My opinion a Cubber will.