madkins007

I like FScouter's last comment.

When we speak of child development, we often say a child should do such and such by age x. They should walk by 'a' months, talk by 'b' months, cut a straight line with scissors by 'c' years, etc.

The reality is that each of these things pretty much happen when they happen- usually within a range of so many months or years. Doctors and teachers are often beset upon by parents either bemoaning that their child has not accomplished some milestone on time, or bragging that they were early. Some parents even try to artifically accelerate the program to beat the stats for some misguided reasons.

Our Scouts are much the same. They will hit First Class in due and proper time... assuming a few basics. One of the basics is that we, as leaders, need to help ensure that opportunities for advancement, learing, practice, etc. are available.

Had the FCE been presented more along the lines of a series of guidelines for unit activity planning WITHOUT any hint about what rank a Scout 'should' be, I woulda been a lot happier with it.

re: patch-covered shirt-jacs...

If I inherited a nice historic jacket, I'd wear it proudly as is but buy a second jacket for ceremonial wear. As a rule of thumb, I try a lot harder to be perfectly uniformed for ceremonies and more formal occassions. The rest of the time I'd wear my braggin' jacket.

re: Woolrich as a source...

I think I'd go with the 'if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, its a duck' theory here. As a bigger guy, I am frustrated by the lack of uniform parts that fit comfortably (and I can afford!) I found some good olive web belts in a uniform catalog and used those with an official buckle. I made my own red Activity shirt and 'quasi shirt-jac'. I'm still looking for a sharp looking red windbreaker to modify. My dad and almost all of his old Woodbadge staff bought their campaign hats at a local army/navy store and added the official hatband at well under 1/2 the cost of the BSA's. The presence of the official label just is not worth bankruptcy for me.

Question...

I have heard that part of the proceeds of the sale of the uniform or some parts thereof is used to help fund paid Scouter retirements or benefits. The wool jacket and campaign hats are often specified in the rumors. Does anyone know of there is any validity to this?

The new training program was rolled out after I was a CS training chair and completed my SM training so I am not as familiar with its content, but, were I offering input on a new training program, I'd...

1.) Make youth and adult position patches restricted items, not available until SOME level of training has been accomplished.

2.) Streamline Youth Protection. With a good handout, it really should be able to be covered in about 45 minutes.

3.) Provide training materials in multiple formats. I REALLY like the idea of making 'Scouting Pocket Guides' with 'mini' versions of a lot of our materials- for youth AND adults! Besides pocket formats, offer on-line versions, e-versions that can be downloaded to a PDA or laptop, possibly even 'books on CD' versions to listen to!

4.) Offer a good 'History, Purposes, and Methods of Scouting' booklet/comic that can orient leaders, youth and parents to help provide a stronger shared culture.

5.) Minimize AND maximize video use. If you are short on trainers, videos can be a godsend! One trainer, a buncha videos, and some good discussions can accomplish a lot. On the other hand, live humans are generally better and harder to nod off during.

6.) Most position-specific sessions end up taking a big chunk of time on one or two points and having to rush to cover everything else. Things like DL craft ideas, unit finances, and so on can chew up TONS of time. Identify these segments, and if they are not needed in the initial training, cut them to bare bones and use them as cores to create a second wave of training of some sort- Roundtable discussions, Pow-Wow/U of Scouting sessions, etc. (Yes, I know this already happens, but in training we often get caught up in covering this stuff when some of it can wait while we hit other, more timely topics)

7.) Aim for a goal of a trainer in each unit. I'd love to see this be a person who can do most of the 'basic' training unit leaders need. Have the trainers be certified and give them access to some good materials, then let them loose to get unit leaders trained- Fast Start, Fundamentals, YPT, unit-level supplimental, etc. [i firmly believe that there are huge benefits to group training as it exists now, and I know that a unit-level training program will be corrupted somehow somewhere, but I also believe in removing barriers togetting people trained. This would remove a LOT of them!]

I'm looking forward to the info!

When I taught knots at Pow-Wow, I came up with an outline I have used that works well for me.

First- nomenclature. Without an idea of the parts of a knot or a rope, it just looks like a big piece of tangled string, so we start with the standing and working ends, bights, loops, etc.

Next, we do a simple overhand knot. Then, we modify the knot by slipping it and doubling it, discussing what that does for us.

Then, we change it from a stopper knot to a hitch, a loop, and a joining knot- (two different joining versions)

The Figure 8 comes next and we quickly review the basics- doubling, slipping, hitch, join, loop. I do this with the Figure 8 since learning that many fire departments teach this group as their primary knots.

At this stage the class has the basics of knots down better and has sort of learned how to 'see' a knot. From here, we can go on to the basic Boy Scout knots, usually in the order of Square, Sheet Bend, and Bowline; 2 half hitches, taut-line, timber and clove hitches.

As time allow we go to one-handed bowlines, sheepshanks, and then touch on decorative knots.

Personally, I love knots and am ALWAYS looking for more stuff on them!

Scoutndad- I am a bitter old man when it comes to district relations. You really don't want to hear it all*!

On the Cub Scout level, it really does not make a ton of difference what district you belong to. As has been pointed out, you can participate in many of the activities regardless of district.

As for finding troops- while district help is nice, it is not terribly critical. You ought to be able to find nearest troops with little trouble. A couple visits to Roundtable will do it if you don't already know them.

(Besides, I personally sorta think that the burden SHOULD be on the troops to find US! Just imagine what would happen to your neighboring troops if Cubs stopped transitioning! [not that this is a threat or anything, heh, heh, heh!])

(* I will note however, that I WAS active on the distict and council levels- serving on or leading committees for many years, including roundtable and training. Nonetheless, I'd have a hard time giving an example of a way the district ever really -helped- the pack. Boy Scouting is a diffrent situation altogether.)

As long as the boys have the opportunity to do other good stuff, like learn new skills- I say ATTABOY MR SM!

From what I have seen, summer camp is a HORRIBLE place for a lot of the merit badges. The counsellors are usually teen-age boys who may or may not have a love for the subject. The available resources for teaching some of the badges are sorely lacking. Often, Scouts get checkoffs for attendence more than actual participation. There really isn't enough time to do the traditional 'learn, do, review' approach required for most badges.

Most boys come home with a long list of 'partials'- often the parts that require the real work. As a MB counsellor and ex-SM, I'da just as soon see the Scouts tackle the badge in a more organized, self-motivated way under the guidance of a single counsellor. At least then I know that they really LEARNED something.

Please understand that I think camp is the PERFECT place for some of the badges- good teachers, great location- the perfect blend of time and place. It is just so dang frustrating to see MBs become the focus of the camp.

Its also a documented fact that the children of leaders stay in longer, earn higher rank, participate more, and have better attendence. Perhaps this should also become the foundation of a program?

OK, lets switch gears a bit... Is First Class today the same award it was before the big 1972 transition? First Class used to be a big deal. Scouts who earned it were a bit older and it was often required for at least some leadership positions. Is a First Class Scout today REALLY a 'first-class' Scout?

My old handbooks are packed away right now, but if anyone is interested, I'll gladly post a comparison of the 1960's requirements to the current. I'll also be happy to post the requirements for other periods back to about 1930 (my collection of handbooks does not go back beyond that, except for some reprints of the first BSA handbook.)

Is Star or Life the 'new' First Class?

My first step would just be a 'word to the wise' talk... but I'd have someone deliver it that he will really listen to. Not implying that you may not be that person, but in most groups, people naturally tend to trust and respect different people.

I have also noticed that our old Committee Chair, a very nice but very petite woman, was usually WONDERFULLY successful in dealing with 'potty mouth' issues! It just may be a more powerful message from someone like a female Scouter. (At least it eliminates the 'hey, we're all just guys here' excuse!)

If you intereveiwed all the youth involved and came up with nothing more solid, I would thank the boys that reported it for coming forth with that sort of thing and work to make sure every Scout feels safe and right in reporting such activities.

Next, I'd pull the other boy aside (within G2SS) and let him know that if he was just bragging, it is a REALLY stupid thing to brag about, and if he did it, he needs to make things right- admit it and face the music (which, obviously, should be appropriate 'music' for a candy bar theft, or else he will deem it in his best interest to just shut up.) Either way, I'd also let him know that he is on a form of probation to regain the leader's trust.

I think that 'First Class First Year' (FCFY) is a slightly misguided program.

It is based on studies that show that youth who hit First Class early tend to stay in longer, just as studies show that youth that summer camp their fist year stay in longer.

I believe that the REAL connection is that units with strong activity programs retain youth better, regardless of rank.

I've seen abuses of the FCFY program, similar to those for the big Eagle push- campouts entirely geared towards advancement and 'filling boxes', entire meetings dedicated to merit badge classes (and all to often, the boy is passed as much for attendence as for actually doing anything), summer camp programs that make 'earning stuff' a higher priority than having fun.

I also think we have somewhat cheapened what used to be an honorable rank, denoting great status in the unit. I KNOW this is not universal, but I have seen all too many First Class Scouts unable to perform basic Scoutcraft tasks at least in part because they attained the rank so fast there was no TRUE learning taking place- no reinforcement, etc.

Some units I have been involved with that really PUSH FCFY also tend to be a bit... 'lax' in their signing off and BORs- so as many boys as possible can hit the goal.

Personally, I'd rather see a Scout hit First Class on the timetable they come up with during the Scoutmaster's conference than based on a more arbitrary schedule.

Having said that, I am also a big fan of 'what works, WORKS!'. If FCFY is working for you- solid retention, good attendence, great program, etc.- Go for it!!!`

Sigh.

Evidence of non-human mammals (scat in a baggie, plaster cast of a track, hair, nibbled acorns, etc.)

Evidence of insect life

IF every patrol had access to a camera (instant or digital) you could have a photo safari and require things like all patrol members crammed inside a tent from another unit, patrol members posing with members of another patrol with the same patrol name, and other activities designed to help them meet other Scouts, as well as most of the aforementioned ideas!

Some of the major brands can help as well. Jansport, for example, had a very liberal return/restore policy. If it is a big brand bag, you can try contacting the maker for ideas.

We made this a part of our annual 'registration'- dues, forms, information updates, passing on of new policies and phone numbers, etc. Scout family by Scout family.

We handed out a checklist of what we needed and expected. Next 2 weeks- gather info. Third week, start calling to get updated info or to remind that we need it at the next meeting.

It REALLY helped when we could post a leader or two at the door with a laptop and a stack of forms and handouts. The 'business desk' was a convenient place for people to get info, check on account balances, turn in advancment info, etc.

This sprung from a crackerbarrel discussion with some older Scouts and a handful of Scouters from several programs.

The discussion had gotten around to one of the lodge officals talking about the role of adult OA members in the program. There seemed to be an odd dichotomy- some adults got involved to the point that they interfered with the youth aspect of the program or its leadership, and a bunch of others got involved not at all.

Something someone had said earlier, about Cub ceremonies, clicked and we had a brainstorm.... what if there was an organized adult OA member program?

We called them Bowmen, to differentiate them from Arrowmen. They also are dedicated to brotherhood and cheerful service and promoting Scouting, but they focus on Cub units.

They would perform wonderous ceremonies for rank awards at pack meetings and act as a pool of expert instructors, guest speakers, etc. for Cub packs.

They would get to create and wear regalia for the ceremonies, they get to design and enact cool 'skits' explaining the meaning of the awards, etc.- all with the theme of the tribe of Webelos and Chief Akela.

I can see this as a win-win situation. More adults join because they have something fun and useful to do, more money and interest in OA activities, better support for Cubs and Cub leaders (which, ideally, means more Boy Scouts coming in), etc.

What do other people think?

Ging Gang Goo (or Ging Gang Goolie) is a GREAT song, and a lot of fun. The story beind it and the story it tells (in that version at least) is fun also.

I am always a bit surprised it is not featured more often around here- I had not heared it performed until Woodbadge, and fell in love with it.

I'd like to use it as background music to a Powerpoint presentation, and just have it on my iPod to sing along to... if I can find a 'full' version!

Robert- been there. You have my sympathy and deepest admiration!

In my old pack, I was brought in during the Fall registration- to a pack with a 50 year history and no leadership or boys except for a single CM, whose wife was treasurer and had one kid. We grew to having a decent group of 30 Cubs and good leaders. In our case, the fall registration bit worked well, but I applaud your decision to use the summer!

At some point, as early as possible, get yourself trained. If possible, take the training for as many pack positions as you can so you know their jobs as well.

I would work to assemble an interim leadership team to help take the full load off your shoulders for right this minute. Build the team from whatever ex-leaders or parents you think you can work with. Invite them personally to help and explain that at this point, they are noto committee members or den leaders, just the 'Pack Summer Events Committee' or some such.

Put together a 'summer events newsletter' with the calendar of events for as far in the future as you can. Send it to anyone you can, especially youth and adults who were involved in the last couple years. Do not fall to the temptation to ask for more help in the newsletter, but rather let them assume everything is going great. Include your phone number as a contact.

Use your temporary leadership team to put together good events and to make sure everything is kosher.

Now- once that is rolling pretty well, start thinking about yhour leadership structure for the fall. Get recruiting materials from the district, and see what schools, churches, etc. will let you post stuff. Find out about having a recruiting drive, etc.

Using your 'interim team' try to sense which ones are open to the idea of giving it a second shot. As the events occur, see which adults you think are really into it and might be willing to listen to a sales pitch. Try to recruit specific people for specific jobs (the BSA way you'll learn in training) and put together at least a skeleton roster. If you can hit the fall recruiting fest with a Chartering Org. Rep, a Committee Chair, a couple other committee members, and a couple Den Leaders, you'll have a big head start.

One hint- as you recruit new people, encourage them to be trained ASAP as well. If your pack has the money, consider having the pack pay for it. Even if they can't do the whole thing, get them Fast Started before they start their new position. Trained leaders make the Cubmasters job a LOT easier!

You mean the Songbook CD? When I saw it in the shop, I did not notice Ging Gang Gooli on it (but I'll have to look again). When I checked the sample files, I was not especially pleased with the arrangements- nothing bad, just not what I was looking for.

I found this VIDEO of Ging Gang Goo- and it almost scares me! ;-) (http://www.roostermusic.com.au/videogooli.html). They offer an MP3 vesion, but it is not what what I want either, and it omits the 'elephants walking' bit!

I also found, did not bookmark, and cannot relocate a site of several tapes of campfires from Philmont- fun, but very low-res.

Back in the mid-70's, the BSA was laying some groundwork for a co-ed future. They were promoting the name 'Scouts America' and making quiet noises about letting girls join. I believe as Bob White pointed out that the GSUSA was unhappy with the plan.

At about the same time, our troop had a 'patrol' of girls (mostly sisters, a couple 'girlfrineds') that were allowed/encouraged to do pretty much everything the Scouts did- they even earned a form of non-BSA rank for meeting the requirements. On campouts, they could stay with their own family a bit apart from the boys, but were chopping wood, cooking, and so on right in there with the rest of them. They paid their own way, wore a 'patrol T-shirt' they made up, and had to have a parent around to be there.

Did I notice a difference between this unit and others I was involved in? Yeah. It had more fun, more outings, and better attendance than most of the units in the area. I can't say it was because of the girls, but having the girls there made it easier to have other adults/parents around, helped with SOME behaviors, and I think helped a bit with attendence- I noticed the girls rarely missed!

OK, we could not play some of the rougher, more physical games- but how many games of British Bulldog can (or SHOULD) you tolerate anyway?

Several years ago, I saw our district's list of registered units. It listed several dozen Explorer/Venture posts that I know did not really exist, and kept Scouts and Scouters enrolled for years after they graduated or left. It was a very open secret, known to most volunteers working at all with the district or council. We hated it, but it was coming from the top and no one seemed too interested in fighting it.

About the same timem, I spoke to an excellent and respected DE pacing in the Scout office lobby where he shared that he had just been told by the Exec. to get his numbers up by any means necessary- and his district was one of the two richest and most populated in our or neighboring councils.

I was not working close to the Scout office when the news about inflated figures investigations broke, but friends there told me that there were many high-level, very secret meetings going on. I have since heard that our council's enrollment numbers have plummeted, but conversely, the data is harder to obtain now.

This is part of why I don't get real excited about the 'opportunity' to participate in FOS, popcorn sales, and other district/council activities.

While I cannot provide documentation, that is my understanding as well- who is responsible (or 'liable'.)

At one time in recent history, the number of units earning the QU Award helped a DE earn the Quality District Award. This award usually meant some form of bonus to the DEs. A certain number of distrcts have to earn the QD Awards for the Council to earn it's Quality Council Award, which also carries perks.

With the scandals starting to show up in inflated numbers, it is very possible that this has or will soon change.

We were just talking about this earlier tonight with some teacher friends.

It is quite sad that we 40 somethings may be the last major generation that had childhoods that included the ability to go over ot a friend's house that lived a few blocks away- without an escort. We played outside until the streetlights came on without leaving an itinerary with mom.

As our kids were growing up, my significant other was terrified that something would happen to our kids if they left her sight. They could not go to a neighbor's house without an escort, they could not even play in the backyard without one of us standing guard.

It does not really surprise me that our kids generally prefer to watch TV or be in their rooms instead of being outside. There was a constant very subtle message that the outdoors was dangerous, that stangers were deadly, etc.

We noticed that kids have a harder time entertaining themselves, making friends, sitting still, and paying attention than they used to (not that kids were ever perfect, I understand!)

What depresses me in all of this is the idea that it is all based on an atmosphere of artificial fear. It is often suggested that kids are at no more real risk today than there were 20-40 years ago*, but that the risks are so much more publised today... often jsut for the sake of ratings.

(*- with the exceptions of gang or drug-related murder in some areas, and abductions by family members)

The problem touches not only Scouting, but school, future generations of kids, and more. It has ripple effects across the country.

First- the design goals. Mine would be moderate price, field functionality but decent looking for meetings and parades, good durability, and the elimination of the need for seperate 'field' and 'activity' uniforms.

I would suggest...

Crew-neck jersey shirts (sort of between T-shirts and sweats), long or short sleeve. Reinforced necks, cuffs, and hems. Pre-embroided US flag and BSA logo/name. Offered in program colors. (Yeah, I know- awfully UK Cub-like, but it meets most of my design goals without invoking the dreaded polos!) Button shirts would remain an option for a dressier uniform.

Modified insignia plan to keep the shirt from getting cluttered, simplify sewing and placement, and to minimize the insigna cost to units and families.

Full sized, old fashioned neckerchief. I even like the original square versions!

Olive or navy cargo pants/shorts/zip-offs in a good cotton/poly/nylon blend, with optional all-cotton canvas or wool blend versions. (Or, my REAL choice would be to replac the uniform pants with a simple dress code!)

Socks- dark socks with long pants, and anklets for shorts- but thats just me!

Caps/hats- I'd offer a small variety to suit various needs and tastes. Probably the Expedition hat, a waterproofed canvas baseball cap with embroidered logo, a Boonie-type cap of some sort, and a warmer cap design.

A three-part jacket (each part available seperately) of a lightweight (Thinsulite?) pocketed vest, a wool-blend or fleece jacket, and a waterproof shell all designed to work together as needed.

All components made by a uniform or outdoor clothing supplier. (Cabelas offers several shirts I'd love to see available, for example!)

I've been looking for MP3 or other sound files for songs like Ging Gang Gooli and some of the other great Boy Scout songs. I can't seem to locate any for free or pay.

Any ideas?