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Posts posted by LongHaul

  1. The Board of Directors for the Chicago Area Council have voted to terminate the contract to sell Owasippe Scout Reservation. The sale will formally be terminated when both parties have signed the agreement to terminate the contract. CAC has spent some 1M dollars seeking to rezone the 4700 acres so that it could be developed. Volunteers and Scouts of CAC wait with held breath. A Scout is Tenacious!


  2. After looking at the building remains I'm wondering what it "looked"like before the tornado. Just how structurally sound was it to begin with? Then again I was present for a tornado that went through Oak Lawn Ill in the late 60's. The path of the tornado was indeed a path, almost everything new or old got flattened or moved a few blocks to one side or the other. LongHaul

    http://tinyurl. com/67d7wj

  3. No training is ever for naught, sometimes we need a refresher. We take driver tests every so often. To be eligible to referee soccer games I must take a test every year one the laws and their application. Why is it such a terrible thing to ask those providing program to youth to take a refresher course every so often? As for Scoutmaster Specifics not much of the information has changed but the manner in which it is presented has changed. As for WB the entire focus of the course has changed. Most of the difference can be found in the trainers and requirements of the local councils. National provides a syllabus but local councils actually decide what qualifies as trained. National considers you trained if your local council says your trained. I've been to 6 hour IOLS and 1 hour youth protection training. Baloo and IOLSWL together in 6 hours. The only thing that really seems to be regulated is WB.  If your trainers are good I say retake prior trainings, who knows you may learn something.


  4. So let's get this straight, if the GUIDE to safe Scouting is just that a GUIDE then does it follow that two deep leadership which is referenced in the GUIDE is optional according to our estimation of the maturity of our scouts? Is laser tag allowed according to our estimation of the maturity of our scouts? How about BSA organized hunting of animals? Many rural youth hunt from early on. How about handguns? Still Venture Crew and above? It's only a GUIDE after all.


  5. nldscout,

            I agree that laws differ from state to state however unless things are drastically different in NY a troop must seek unicorperated status. As for your troop trailer saying TroopXX is there not also a requirement for address and some sort of identification to be used to locate the owner in cases of liability? In Illinois we use SS#s and Drivers license numbers. Our troop trailer was registered to troop XX but had my address and the license plate registration carried my Drivers licence number. Unless the unit is self chartered, at least in Illinois, it can't own property or obtain insurance for property. If your trailer was parked at a State Park and it blew up injuring someone who would end up before the court?


  6. >>As a commissioner I have been involved in this process a few times in different councils and it was always handled in this manner.<<  Handled by you in your area maybe.

     There once was a Scouter, here I use the term in it's loosest and broadest sense, that convinced the District Commissioner and Council Commissioner that making said Scouter the unit commissioner for all the Cub Packs in one local community was a great idea. This Scouter then went to each CO in turn and read them the rules, informing them of their responsibility to provide meeting places, support, and all the things the Utopian CO provides. Several CORs took offense and Packs were forced to seek sponsorship else where. One CO however was in the midst of a financial crisis due to under insured damage to the church. When informed that the church did in fact "own" the Pack they immediately dissolved it just as they had all other programs formerly supported by the church. They seized the bank account which was a considerable sum as this was a very old Pack. Council tried to stop the seizure but lost in the early rounds in court for the reasons I already mentioned. The judge pretty much said National can not deny liability but assume ownership.

    In another case a group of adults within a unit physically took the bank account and the equipment and formed a separate unit with a different CO.  When the adults not included in the "defection" cried foul they were told by Council that the only course was for the CO to file criminal charges of theft against those involved.  They were told that Council has no legal recourse because the unit is "owned" by the CO.  Council then went ahead and chartered the renegade unit.


  7. Lisabob,

         When I accepted the position of SM on of the first things I did was to sit down and "interpret" every requirement for every rank up to First Class. I put these into four separate ringed binders. I then asked my first SPL to look these over and discuss them with me. Each SPL after that has done the same, in 18 years there were two changes to my original draft. As scouts advance in rank and are allowed to sign off they must review the rank they are signing for and answer a few brief questions by the SPL or ASPL to insure the review actually took place. I read several threads in which "a boy's best" should be the bench mark but I think skill acquisition should be the bench mark. When you can do "it" you get credit. Special cases are just that and are handled by an ASM designated for that case.

         Currently I no longer serve as SM for any troop. One troop I'm associated with went so far as to interpret Second Class req 1b. to mean a boy that accompanies his group on a hike at which one of the FATHERS has a map and a compass is used by that FATHER qualifies. The rational being the req does not state that the boy must be the one that is using the compass and map and that having each boy do this separate would not be possible time wise. This troop has a high attrition rate and no boys older than 15. Another troop is "boy led" and they interpret this req to mean that the map and compass are passed among those seeking sign off and at least two "qualified" scouts be present on the hike. The lack of adult "quality control" has resulted in a degradation of the skill level that when several of the older (15-17) senior scouts came to me to pass Orienteering Merit Badge I found that they actually knew very little of the basic skills. It's the skill acquisition and fun that those skills bring that results in retention IMO.


  8. Has been contested. This is another National attempt to baffle the unknowing. If when something goes wrong National assumes no liability, when dept is incurred National assumes no liability, when maleficence occurs National assumes no liability, National has no claim to any assets. When units build up funds that the CO decides are better used elsewhere in the CO's program and disbands the unit Council can't do a thing about it. But then I'm from Chicago and even the courts do things different here.


  9. Beavah,

    Ya I'm from Chicago "Vote early...vote often" and things get done differently down here. BUT if you look on the money earning form it cites and example of Bell ringing for the Salvation Army as being not approved because it is a third party. Should we then assume by what you say that the people that wrote that example were not taking into account that the Salvation Army does sponser units? I can park cars for the church, march in parades with the American Leigon and VFW, flip pancakes for the Knghts of Columbus, Lions or Kiwanis be they my CO but not ring bells for the Salvation Army?



  10. I did find the quote I was thinking of;

    Example is not the main thing in influencing others, it's the only thing.

     Albert Schweitzer

     As for wearing the uniform during fund raising. If the unit is owned by the CO all assets of the unit are property of the CO then any funds being raised by the unit for it's own use are in actuality being raised for the CO which under item 7 of the money earning application is considered a third party. I went through all this with the professionals in my council on several occasions. As ScoutNut has said the kids are not dumb. Just because no one will bust you for it does not make it proper. Using the uniform to raise money where National, be it via the Council or the District, does not get a direct cut has always been restricted. At least in this neck of the woods.


  11. On my Honor means what ever I feel it means on any given day so I can wear my uniform no matter what I'm selling, scalping, pandering, or procuring.

    The rule....rule? we don't need no stinkin' rules.....says you should not wear the official BSA dress uniform while raising funds that are not intended for BSA. Funds intended for local units are in fact being raised in the name of the Chartering Organization. But then why worry about rules. Trustworthy means what ever is in my best interest at the time.

    I read a quote some place that said "Leading by example is not the best way to lead it is the only way to lead" Can't remember where....

    LongHaul(This message has been edited by LongHaul)

  12. Making the call to set aside National registration requirements? Make the call as to changing the requirements for the Arrow of Light Award? Or are we really talking about making the call to insure that as many $10 registration fees are collected as possible? The Boy Scouts of America is after all a business with a bottom line to be managed and maintained. When the people no longer purchase sufficient quantities of your product to keep the business viable change the product to one they will purchase.


  13. >>The DE can fix unusual situations like these. <<

    How can a DE "fix" the fact that a bunch of parents are more worried about easing their burden or a pack or troop are looking to make their task easier by depriving these boys or the program designed to "transition" them from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts?

     >>I got all my Webelos I's their AOL at the end of their first year.<<

    Is worded exactly correct, the leader GOT the boys the award. What the leader didn't do was teach these boys how a Boy Scout Troop is run. Troops do not normally cover the 21 merit badges needed for Eagle on a weekly meeting cycle. "Come join OUR troop, attend meetings for 21 months and we will make you an Eagle!" If the AOL is not important then why try to "give it" to the boy early? If it is important why not do it properly so the boy knows he has earned it according to the requirements established by BSA National?


  14. The first requirement for AOL is; Be active in your Webelos den for at least six months since completing the fourth grade (or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old), and earn the Webelos badge. So unless these boys all skipped a grade their AOL is bogus. As ScoutNut said this is about the BOYS not the adults. We loose them because we don't offer them a program that interests them. Focusing on rank advancement and age requirements and grade levels tends to leave INTERESTING in their wake. LongHaul

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