Liz

Well, we've visited both potential packs. Both my daughter and I really prefer the pack that is closer to our home. She feels much more comfortable there. The other pack, she didn't want to be there, she wanted to go home, and she didn't want to go back. Why? I'm not sure. I felt it wasn't as organized as I would have liked but I didn't have the visceral "I don't like it here" reaction that she did. But the one in our neighborhood seems like a super fun, super inviting sort of a group, with a decent amount of structure and discipline while still room for kids to be kids, as well as a great meeting space for kids to play indoor games in winter and next door to a large park for outdoor activities closer to summer. 

My daughter is sad about "splitting up" from the other kid her age from our old Pack, but we'll be getting together to work on the Moviemaking pin and I'm sure other things over the next year they have as Webelos; and they'd eventually have to go to different Troops anyway. 

I'm feeling a lot better just having the decision made. Now we just have to figure out how we handle her re-registration.

30 minutes ago, yknot said:

Very good information. Thank you. In my part of the world there are many abandoned lines that have been turned into hiking trails but the old rails still cross the roads. Lulls you into non observance. 

I suppose if I lived in an area where I knew there were lines that were decommissioned, and I knew where those crossings were in my own neighborhood, and they were appropriately marked as hiking trails, it might be a little different for those specific crossings; but I still wouldn't assume any OTHER crossing was completely out of service. 

Most active railroad crossings at least have a sign. That sign ALWAYS means there is a chance of a train. Even if it's rare. 

On 11/26/2019 at 10:39 AM, yknot said:

We have probably all blasted over tracks that looked empty or dormant and may not have been. There are so many abandoned tracks around that unless there is obvious signage it's easy to see how an out of area driver might not have realized it was an active rail bed. Where I live, there are ungated crossings, but they are utilized by sporadic freight trains that don't go that fast. Another tragic reminder to stay focused on the road, especially with kids in the car. 

Not me. 

All railroads are assumed to be active. I stop every time. 

I cross at one of these unregulated crossings on my way to and from work every morning. There's a sign, but no lights or crossing arm. I come to a complete and total dead stop and look both ways TWICE before proceeding. I do occasionally see people blow through it and it freaks me out every time. I've only ever seen a train go down those tracks once. But once is enough. Plus, since I happen to be a railfan, I know that trains pass that way several times a day; just not usually during my commute times. 

I spent months working with an entire Troop of Boy Scouts to help them earn their Railroading Merit Badge, at the end of which time we took Amtrak from Portland to Sacramento and had a great trip utilizing both Amtrak and Lightrail systems. I required all the boys to demonstrate proficiency in understanding railroad safety before I'd let them sign up for the trip. They could have earned the merit badge without going on the trip, but they weren't going on the trip without me feeling confident that they would be safe. I didn't want the liability. I showed them videos from Operation Lifesaver as well as a video of a guy getting hit by a lightrail train because he ran in front of a stopped train which blocked the view of another train coming down the second track. 

I am also that person who calls out my friends when they post photos of themselves or their family members on or near railroad tracks. 

I have been working with Safe Kids USA for 8 years now, not specifically with railroad stuff but generally in injury prevention. I don't screw around with this stuff. I know too much about what can go wrong. 

I can't guess what went wrong that caused this grandmother to cross the tracks when it wasn't clear. Maybe she was distracted. Maybe she had a medical event. Maybe she just had terrible driving habits. But we can't get these kids back. And no, I never EVER blast over tracks assuming they will be clear. EVER. 

On 11/18/2019 at 9:52 AM, dkurtenbach said:

I think the decision of the LDS church to cut its ties with the BSA was much more about admission of girls into BSA's programs for younger kids. 

This is hardly a scientific poll or anything, but the only LDS person I've talked to who had bad things to say about the BSA was spouting off about how much she disagreed with my daughter being in Cub Scouts and "THIS is why the Church has decided to discontinue its relationship with Boy Scouts." She wasn't particularly in favor of allowing gay or trans members either, but that wasn't her big issue. It was just simply not OK to allow girls to do something she felt was reserved for boys. It didn't matter to her that the Church had every possibility of continuing to only offer the program to boys. Man, I got tired of hearing her yammer about how the whole program was ruined because of allowing girls in. Seems like she should have had a clue by the fact that the conversation started with me breathing the words "daughter" and "cub scouts" in the same sentence that she wasn't going to find a sympathetic ear in me. LOL!

Other LDS people I've talked to have generally been in continued favor of girls in Scouting and continue to support BSA Scouting in general as a concept and with a "Let me know if there's anything I can do to support your new unit for girls" kind of an attitude. Opinions on whether the LDS Church should or should not have discontinued its relationship with BSA vary, but it's only been that one person who had an axe to grind with BSA. 

At cub scout camp this year they had the First Aid station right next to the fire making station. I happened to know that they had an open packet of burn gel sitting on the table because someone earlier had needed it. They showed it to the kids as they were talking about burn first aid. 

After my daughter finished up her first aid session, we went over to try our hand at making a fire on a sand table. We were only allowed one match, and mine broke, and since it's been a long time since I've used a regular match I have forgotten how easy it is to burn one's self on it and without thinking I tried to strike the broken match (honestly thinking I wouldn't get it to strike anyway) when it flared up and burned my finger which was too close to the match head. 

I asked my daughter to go over and ask one of the Boy Scouts at the first aid table for some burn gel. Which she did, but was completely ignored. She came back empty handed. So I called over to the Scout and said "Hey, I burned my finger, can I get some burn gel?" And he looked at me and proceeded to completely ignore me. 

I then walked over to him, held out my finger, and said "I KNOW you have burn gel over here. I saw it like 5 minutes ago. And it's already open. Please give me some, and while you're at it, may I please have a band-aid?" He stared at me blankly but eventually pulled out the open pouch, put some on my finger, and reluctantly handed me a band-aid. 

Seriously. The burn was small but it HURT and it shouldn't be that hard to get a Scout with a first aid kit to help you out. Yes, I was being stupid, but still. 

SSScout - You'd better hope my littlest one is never in your unit. LOL. She's going to turn any Scout leader's hair grey overnight. Yesterday after she landed flat on her face on the living room floor I had to tell her, "You cannot fly. Please stop trying." She answered. "Oh yeah. I forgotted. I was just trying to fly like SuperGirl." This is not the first time I've had to remind her that she cannot fly. She is almost 5. 🤦‍♀️

https://www.scoutshop.org/cub-scout-youth-patch-vest-red-600540.html - They're official again now, but they were on hiatus for several years. 

2 minutes ago, desertrat77 said:

Fairly common in the '70s, started dying out in the early '80s. 

When my older kids were Cub Scouts in 2001-2007ish, they weren't even available to purchase and were no longer considered "official" Scouting wear. Most of the kids in our dens used a "brag blanket." I know they have made a little bit of a comeback and are now available for purchase at the Scout Shop, but I don't know anybody who actually has one. 

I don't think I've ever seen a Scout with a red brag vest in real life. 

On 10/31/2019 at 12:21 PM, Thunderbird said:

There is a council near me that uses segments.  They seem to encourage it for older Scouts (in troops) - not just Cub Scouts (usually worn on the red brag vest).  If I remember correctly, they wear it in the temporary patch spot on the right pocket - basically counting the center patch and all segments as the temporary patch.

That's how it's done in my current Council and in the Council I was in before. At least in the previous council the round patch placed on the right pocket was a District patch which you could argue had some value by itself (the segments being a different matter). But in my council it's just a 2nd council patch, which is, if nothing else, redundant. If you buy a shirt with patches pre-sewn at the local Council office, they even include this extra council patch. 

I don't like it. I grudgingly complied with it on my daughter's blue uniform, but now that she's in tan, nope. My older kids did it and I always thought it looked tacky. I'm far from uniform police, but this is so far away from a neat and tidy look that I just boycott it. 

I don't have any objection to teaching things to 4th graders, but only a tiny percentage of 5th to 8th graders are in cub scouts. And I'm not sure I'd go into details about addiction that young, mainly because I don't think kids that age have enough frame of reference to understand and therefore pay attention and retain the information. 

"Drugs, bad; don't take any drugs your doctor doesn't prescribe specifically for you" is a good lesson at any age. 

Den leaders? Are they actually targeting this to cub scouts? The article says 5th through 8th grade. With dens. 🤷‍♀️

I hate how sloppy journalism is. 

9 hours ago, HashTagScouts said:

Sorry that this has to be such a major issue, but applaud you are thinking of what is best for your kids rather than just taking the easiest road of what is shortest commute for you.  I empathize with that.  Think beyond the next year though, what would be the landscape for your daughter once she is moving to the next level? Would it be likely she would be in a troop with this 1 girl that is in the pack near you (and would that be a troop that is near you)? 

There are only two troops for girls in our city, and the other one is "closed" to new members, so unless the one girl in this nearby Webelos den happens to be the daughter of the Chair of the "other" Troop (which would be unfortunate, but that's a long, other story) it's safe to say she'll be joining our Troop if she joins any Troop at all. 

We had our meeting tonight and I think I've pretty much made up my mind to go with our neighborhood Pack, for several reasons. As a bonus, our Troop Scoutmaster who was at the meeting pointed out that it would give us a good opportunity to make another connection between our Troop and another Family Pack in the area. My daughter is disappointed but I think the other kid that she is currently doing Webelos with and she can still get together and work on electives and stuff, and we may still go to camp together next summer. Once they move on to Troops they won't be able to be in the same unit anymore anyway, and this gives her at least a chance of working towards her AOL with a girl who she might end up in a patrol with later. The unit the other family is planning to go to, which is in their neighborhood, is registered as a Family Pack but I don't think it has any girls at that age level. 

It's not a done deal yet and I reserve the right to change my mind before it's all over, but I think this is a reasonable course. 

I’m not crazy worried about how the Pack is set up in terms of separate dens as long as she isn’t excluded from hanging out with the boy den if it’s just her or maybe one other girl. The closest pack to our house only has one other girl in Webelos but right now it’s just her and one boy working on Webelos rank so whatever. If we do that, we probably won’t be able to stick with the other kids she is currently Scouting with because they all live on the other side of town. 

We can join a Pack on that side of town and all stay together, but that leaves us with switching packs again once she crosses over because I can’t keep up with one kid in a Troop and the other in a Pack that is soooo far away. 

This week our pack's CO informed us that they would not be renewing our charter. 

I'm not sure why, but perhaps the fact that we only have 4 cubs, one of whom is just weeks away from earning her AOL, has a lot to do with it. 

I'm sure for the oldest girl she will just transition to the Troop a little earlier than planned. That leaves my 4th grader and one other, and one 3rd grader to find a new home. 

I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking for here other than commiseration maybe. We switched to this pack less than a year ago after dealing with irreconcilable differences in our previous Pack leadership. 

We will need to weigh our options. We could merge with another small pack in the area. On the surface, that makes the most sense. But at the time when we moved to this pack on the other side of town (I have to allow 45 minutes to get to a pack meeting to allow for traffic) we didn't have any closer options that were accepting girls. Now we do, and I was planning on investigating a nearby Pack next year when my youngest is old enough to join Lions. So if we stick with one of the neighboring Packs, I'm probably looking at switching again a year from now and that feels overwhelming to me right now. On the other hand, I'd like to allow my daughter to finish Cubs with the other kid she's been working with for the last year or so, as that's important to her. So unless his parents want to start coming to my side of town for meetings, switching again next year might just be inevitable.

Anyway, I'm really just venting, but if anybody has any great advice, I'm all ears. 

We had been planning to take our kids to an out of council Webelos-only summer camp this coming summer, too. I wonder how that will work if we integrate into an existing Pack with its own plans, or if we end up in different packs. 

I'm in the "It is what it is" camp. I recognize this could be a real challenge for some families. But I also don't expect Scouting to be a free handout. My child needs to fundraise her way through it. BSA has to stay in business somehow. 

In leaner times in my life, I'd pay the fee and it might mean my child didn't get to attend summer camp next year. 

18 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Am I looking at this crooked, or are youth basically underwriting the background checks for their merit badge counselors?

I suppose that's one way of looking at it. 

Another is to ask whether MBCs should be expected to pay for their own background checks in order to volunteer their time to help kids out. Maybe it's appropriate for the kids to fundraise the cost of screening and then having these mentors available. 

At any rate, just to put it in perspective...

$60 per year is still less than the new Disney+ Streaming service. 

Just sayin'. 

Personally, I still think it's a bargain. My daughter fundraises to cover the Pack expenses of participation. I buy her uniforms used. Summer camp is the only major expense, it's optional, and she is able to fundraise enough to cover that, too. 

I am lucky that our local council costs are covered by council fundraising - which again we participate in enthusiastically. If they want to start charging $12 a year at some point I still think that's not unreasonable. 

And I'm seriously considering the Disney+ streaming service too... but if I had to pick one or the other, Scouting all the way.

32 minutes ago, PACAN said:

Are adults who are just MB counselors still no charge?

I don't think they've ever been no charge, but many units pay for MB membership fees out of their Troop budget. 

At my older kids' Troop, they lit 12 candles as they explained each point of the Scout Law, and then a 3-tiered candle for the Scout Oath. I always thought that was kinda cool but I don't know what the girls will think of it. 

We might not be able to do candles in the school where we usually meet, but we can schedule the COH for one of the times we are meeting at an alternate location (sometimes the school isn't available and we meet at the park or in a conference room at the Council office). 

We only have 6 Scouts so far, although we are gearing up to at least triple our size with the graduating Webelos girls from the various packs and that's if only a fraction of the eligible girls cross over - we are the only troop for girls in town that is accepting new members. 

I like the idea of a slide show in the long run. Right now I'm not sure where we'd find the equipment. Maybe the Council office will have some if we use that location. 

I'll talk to the SPL about it and see what she'd like to do.  Thanks for all the awesome suggestions. 

It's going to be time soon to start planning our Troop's first Court of Honor. 

Our girls are all young, inexperienced Scouts. I'm not sure any of them has ever attended a Court of Honor. Maybe one probably has because she has a brother in Scouts BSA.

Typically, the CoH would be planned by the youth like all the other stuff, right? I've seen enough different ones in my "time" in Scouting that I have an idea of how I expect it to look and could totally do it, but I assume I shouldn't be doing that. 

So I'm looking for resources to offer to the girls so they can maybe have some varying examples to draw from to come up with their own CoH. Scripts? Videos on YouTube? Ideas for building a candle holder or...? Whatever. Or should they go crash the CoH for a couple of boy Troops in person? 

🤷‍♀️ I've heard of this several times from several different avenues (email from both National and Council, seen it shared several times on Facebook, etc.). 

I don't know yet whether my daughter (4th grade) will wear her uniform to school tomorrow. It's a decision she needs to make for herself. She initially said she would. She's prone to changing her mind though. 

I made sure the girls in our Troop knew about it. Don't have any idea whether they are going to participate or not. 

I'm not pushing the issue. I guess we'll see what happens. 

We don't live in an area that has a strong cultural support of Scouts. There are individuals who will pay/buy anything of course; but as a rule we wouldn't have a chance of having a single Scout selling $1,000 worth of popcorn. We definitely have that opportunity with the candy and meat sticks we sell instead. 

I lived in a different Council when my older kids were in Scouts. In particular, we lived in an area that had a stronger support of Scouting than the general area the Council covered. We participated in popcorn sales but didn't earn enough to make a dent in our yearly fundraising goals. My kids would go door to door and collect maybe $60 in outright donations if they were lucky and maybe one person would order some popcorn, necessitating another trip out to deliver it. They'd go door to door in the same neighborhood a couple months later taking orders for Christmas Wreaths and bring in a ton of money. 

For a couple of years, we started selling a local eco-friendly coupon book alongside the popcorn fundraiser. The kids did MUCH better when they could walk up to the door and say "Would you like to buy some popcorn or would you prefer this $20 coupon book?" We went through cases of those coupon books. The only people who bought popcorn were the occasional Scouting family who kind of considered it a tradition to buy the Scout popcorn. As in, maybe one or two people in the neighborhood in any given year. This wasn't a case of them automatically buying the cheapest option to support Scouts. This was a case of actually offering something of value that people were interested in, or at least willing to buy. Planning a trip on Amtrak within the next year? Going to buy a case of organic flour at Bob's Red Mill? Get your money back by using just this one coupon! 

I agree that popcorn sales are really a "thank you for your donation" more than a product sale. And if you don't live in a place where people are really wanting to make donations to BSA, it doesn't go over real well. I'm so glad the Council we are in now doesn't bother with it.

On 9/30/2019 at 5:23 AM, Cburkhardt said:

You can visit our site at http://www.ScoutsBsaDcGirls.org  if you want to see our take on this. 

 

I love your website! Is this a template that's available for purchase or did someone donate their time and talents to create it just for your Troop? We are looking at getting our website up and running shortly and man, if we don't have to re-invent the wheel, it would make me happy!

40 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

Most sex offenders are male.  There are female sex offenders too, but the majority of abusers are men.

Scouting needs leaders, male and female.  Two-deep leadership and Youth Protection are VERY important, and parents should have full visibility into the program any time / every time they want it.  It takes a village to keep kids safe.

While true (at least in terms of REPORTED sex offenders), why does this not mean that we need to have male and female leaders on ALL outings, regardless of the gender of the youth involved? 

All or nearly all of the lawsuits against the BSA for previous failures to protect youth from sexual predators is from abuse against male youth. Why do they deserve less protection than female youth? Is there any particular evidence that girls are in more danger than boys from sexual predators? We do know male victims report less often than females, but not necessarily that they are victimized less. 

33 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

Bingo. This right here is why I will have nothing to do with female Scouts BSA troops. As a single man in his 20's, I can only be viewed by parents as a potential predator in the making, and I have no desire to deal with that. 

That's just heartbreaking to me. I understand where you're coming from entirely. But IMO, we need to practice two-deep leadership and other YPT rules like the law, because that will stop the few rotten apples from doing damage, and from there practice "A Scout is Trustworthy." 

Yes, I'd allow my daughter to attend events without female leaders present, as long as I had faith that YPT was consistently followed in the unit. I don't worry about unit leaders preying on my daughter partly because I know they are never ever alone with her.