le Voyageur

Prior to upgrading to a new hard drive decided to review some old favorites before dumping them. This forum was one of them that was slated for the waste basket, but decided to have one last look. What a shock! Folks,Terry and others have made great efforts to provide a forum for us Scouters to connect and become a part of a much larger community who share a common intrest. Debate, and points of views requiring critical thinking, and an ability to maintain an open mind, while respecting the views of the poster had degenerated to personal attacks, and innuendos verging on slander. Those most guilty of these misconducts have no one to blame but theirselves for the actions takened against them. Terry did the right thing in the removal of this individual, and for that I respect his conviction to keep this a Scouting based forum. To Terry, I thank you also for the invatation to return to this board - but, I need to take a wait and see atitude to see if civility not only returns, but stays. Also, I very much respect your dission to remove my post directing members weary of the trash to another scouting forum. Again, my thanks to you Terry... Stalking Moon (Le Voyageur)

This will be my last post at this forum as the level of freedom that I need to express myself fully is not allowed here. But, in you I find something that I like, and which feels kindered. If you would like to continue a dialouge of open discussion, talk, an exchange of ideals, or whatever including Scouting, I can be found at this forum http://www.backwoodshome.com/ Hope to see you you there...

No OGE,R7 and others, I'm not in my C.O.P.E. director mode on this one. It has takened me over twenty years of soul searching for me to understand the world as it truly is. It saddens me for having spoken "my" truths quietly and clearly, the same as I would around a campfire here. It seems that the only way to be on anyones good side on this forum is to go with the mainstream. I cannot do that! So in the tradition of my people I will say my name so that you will know that my last words to be spoken here are true and from my heart... I, Stalking Moon, son of the Nansemonds turns his back on you for there is no honor here. My last blessing for one and all is this, may the Great Spirit fill your days with warm Sun, and your nights with guiding stars so that your journey of life will be forever long. I now walk way for I will no longer wear your chains...

The anger that I am now seeing flowing my way verifies my observations....those in the majority will close ranks to insult, beat down and keep in place the minority who dare step outside of their dark shadows. Those who dare speak a truth foreign to theirs will be silenced....thanks for proving me right....

Andrew your obserations of the BSA membership body being..."largely, though not exclusively Christian because most of the population classified themselves such..." is dead on. But, the conundrum is that this majority must not overshadow those who are not, which it does constantly, sometimes unintentionally, but most of the time intentionally. It is done to assert power and control, and to diminish those outside of its' ranks. For the outsider, Christianity is more than a dogma born out of a cult heavily engrained with conflict, bigotry and arrogance. The outsider has often felt the heavy blows and stings of Christiany's practice of using theocratic terrorism and intimidation to beat him down, to keep him in his place. Theocratic terrorism and intimidation are the principle hammers of justification used by Christianity (as well as other religions) to ensure its' own survival in a competitive world of differing religious philosophies that are seeding the minds of humankind. Those outside of its'ranks must be converted, silenced, and yes even killed to keep the central core of winnowed and self fabricated "truths" vital, else an awakening within it's membership could bring about a renaissance that could threaten it's existence. But, all is not rosy for the believer either. Christianity enslaves by keeping it's ranks of believers child like and dependent, that is, God, the father; we, his children. Here, all you have to do is merely believe in the message, nothing else is required. As children, we do not need to be responsible for our spirit path. All is laid out, believe as you are told and you will be rewarded in the here after, never the here now. And, this is what steals mankind away from his true detiny. With religion barring the way, and setting the ground rules, mankind will never know God. And this is what makes Christianity (and all other religions) evil, for they are the thieves of truth.....

R7 Scouting is an amazing organization which has grown because it has welcomed all faiths openly and equally. I have no problem with that. I have no problem with people who want to practise any faith, as long as they don't foster it on others. If the membership body of Scouting wishes to turn BSA into a Royal Ranger clone, then fine, I have no problem with that either. Make your wishes known and vote on it, let the majority speak, and those of us who are in the minority will leave, and you won't have to listen to us, or be exposed to painful truths of why we are not interested of blindly following along. I admire the fact that you have a faith which gives you guidance, direction and comfort. I just hope that it never turns on you....

Want to turn a game of golf into a high adventure backpacking/land navigation program.....a few years back, I wanted to play 9 holes across Death Valley (Needles to Scotty's Castle). This is how I did it, and the techniques used can be adapted, modified, and scaled back for your particular location... Besides backpacking gear, you'll need maps (7.5 topos), compass, GPS, a good driver and a putter. Using bright orange balls will help a whole bunch. Also needed is a wooden hoop used for embrodery (4 to 6 inches in diameter). The rules that I played by were fairly simple; no Mulligans, with par based on 10 strokes per mile. For the first leg, the T off was at UTM 11 677621E 3865250N near Goffs (pun intended) with the first hole near Winding Stair Cave at UTM 11 635518E 3870096N about 27 miles west. As the GPS postion closed, attenion to map and compass became more and more important. When close to the co orodinates, play would cease, the postion fixed as accurate as possible with the wooden hoop serving to mark the spot. Once marked, the ball would be putted into the hoop which served as the "hole". The second leg was below Kelso, and ran across the Devils Playground using the same techniques as above. Fore...

After you get through with waterproofing matches,maybe this could be your next project and put those matches to good use... http://www.fallingwater.com/pct2000/gear/KissStove.asp

Enough time for one... http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/joshua/manifest.html

Some of links I posted don't seem to be working right. I'll see if I can get them up a little later...off to class

OGE, I'm a Nansemond, an Algonkin eastern woodland tribe that was once a part of the Powhatan confedration led by Wahcunsennaca at the time of first contact in 1607. His daughter Matoka (Pocahontus)is my ancestrial grandmother. Because of the span of time from the Colonial period to present day, there are no longer any pure bloods of this tribe left. For the now, we are trying to preserve what is left of our heritage. I grew up on several different reservations during the 50's and 60's, and it wasn't until 1978 that Native Americans were afforded First Admendment rights. As for the OA, I see it as an organization with great potential, but in some Councils, poorly supported which is a great shame. (Sorry for the bullets, got EMT class tonight, and will have to be headed out the door soon, but would really enjoying shareing and answering your questions) But here are some sites which I hope will help a little bit... http://w3.trib.com/FACT/1st.airfa.html http://gbgm-unc.org/wmw/joshua/manifest.html http://thewinds.arcsnet.net/arc_features/newworld/weapons_of_destruction2.html http://ili.nativeweb.org.newstudy.html http://isis.csuhayward.edu/ALSS/soc/NAN/dd/6800sj/sj.htm http://www.aclufl.org/body_relig.htm http://www.theofficent.com/~redorman/foster2.htm Stalking Moon

R7 Sorry to inflame (again),I'm well aware of how abrasive I can be on this subject. You see,I was raised on a reservation where the Christian religion was used to destory a way of life that had flourish for thousands of years. I cannot, and will not forgive those who did this to us, nor the Christian religion that was the hammer of this justification. As an adult, I now practise the faith of my ancestors, not what was shoved down by throat, and enforced by federal law by those wanting to save my heathen soul when I was a child. I'm trying to grow beyound the bittnerness of those years by finding spiritually, not religion. Just thought you folks might need a counter point to ponder on a bit as you digress along this thread. It is your faith, not any of you, that has done great harm and created much suffering. Maybe, as today's Christians you could begin the process to address the problems that were created by your ancestors........be the example of your faith that they weren't...

Over the years, I've been asked quite a few times by scouts at camp if I was an Eagle Scout, despite the fact that I was wearing my Class A's showing the Red,White and Blue square knot of one who has attained this rank. Most scouts, and adults new to this program have little, or no knowledge of what these knots represent, and taking the time to explain what these knots are has never been a problem. However, a few years back I remember explaining to a younger scout why adults are not premitted to wear rank badges. But since he was told that Eagle was a permanent rank, he thought the knot was a dumb ideal (his 40 year old SM was wearing his Eagle patch on his uniform, and was the reason for his comment). So that got me to do a bit of thinking. Why not phase out the knot, and replace it instead with an Eagle patch designed for wear on the left pocket for adults only. Say something along the lines of the NESA patch....

Oooops! http://www.thestinker.net/hideout/hangaroo.swf

Signs Up! Sometimes we adults tend to take theirselves a little too seriously...here, have some fun... http://www.thestinker.net/hideout/kangaroo.swf

http://www.uwsp.edu/stuorg/wildlife/project/Frog/frog.htm

I see a hidden agenda in this thread where someone is looking for a consensus to justify an already pre existing and unchangeable viewpoint. Here's mine. I'm looking forward to the day when there are no more religions, where the myths, legends, and superstitions that seperate and conflict us are buried in the past. Where mankind has the will and the courage to move beyond and break free of his cultural programing. By staying the course as a religious being mankind has no chance of attaining spiritually and achieving his ultimate destiny. For me, the concept of a Christian God is an oxymoron. Within the tenets of the Christian faith, the only way to be a true Christian is to confess your sins, and accept baptism and Jesus Christ as your lord and savior. Thus to be a Christian, "God" would of had to confess his sins, and be baptized and accept Christ as his savior. Therefore, "God" is not only sinful, but also inferior to the Christ! I am most thankful that the BSA, through their bylaws has allowed me to enjoy membership without having to convert to Christianity. And in that reguard, I see this program open and free to all of all faiths, and in my case and maybe quite a few others, no religious faith at all.

forgot this one http://www.backpacker.com/

take a look at http://www.backpacking.com/ this is one of many forums used by backpackers, might be able to find someone to answer your questions bon chance, en roulant

Roundtables in our district are poorly attended due to distance. Our district is composed of 7 rural counties requiring the majority of folks to drive more than an hour for the meeting. Additionally, hosting it on a military base hasn't helped much either since 9/11. For me, I don't attend as much as I should, and less so especially during the winter months. I find it hard to enjoy driving on icy back roads, nor leaving at 6 pm or earlier, and returning home by one in the morning. Additionally, our Roundtables lack Council representaion in the form of a D.E. We've gone as long as 5 years without one, and the last one lasted all of 3 months...

At summer camp this is a difficult badge to complete, here's a few tips to help your scouts achieve this badge...every scout working on this badge should have in hand for the Scoutcraft Director the following... - his blue card with the reqs. that he has completed signed off by a council approved MBC. - a journal of camping experiences, these can be reviewed and annotated by the unit leaders prior to camp to make sure nothing has been missed. - a unit log sheet verifying the exact number of days the scout has camped.

You need to do research on, besides Seton, Daniel Carter Beard who's youth program "The Sons of Daniel Boone" not only predated Scouting, but would also set the outdoor tone for the BSA. Without Beard or Seton, IMHO Scouting would not of lasted this long........

Yes - a few years back I was registered with 2 lodges also....but, talk to your O.A. Advisor for the current rules regaurding dual membership

The prelude to Stephen Vincent Benet's "Western Star". ...a small example "Oh, paint your wagons with "Pike's Peak or Bust!" Pack up the fiddle, rosin up the bow, Vamoose, skedaddle, mosey, hit the grit! (We pick our words, like nuggets, for the shine, And, where they didn't fit, we make them fit, Whittling a language out of birch and pine.) We're off for Californ-iay We're off down the wild O-hi-o! And every girl on Natchez bluff Will cry as we go by-o!"

Good site. Words to live by..... As a side note, I've never liked the river classification system! Too subjective and fails to take in consideration water temps. Consider which is more dangerous, a pounding CIII @ 70 degs, or a tech CII with snow melt temps....