Laurie

You know, sometimes messed-up schedules can be a blessing in disguise. Nothing went as planned, we were caroling, and half the pack didn't show (sickness and a school concert), and of those boys who did show, some families didn't stay, so all ceremonies were dropped, and the boys didn't know they were going to take place anyway, so no one missed them (but me!). My husband and I have read your posts, and we both thank you for the ideas and support you've given us as we seek to do what is best for our son. Thank you kindly.

Yikes! I just noticed a typo: "briding" ceremony. Hmmmm.... You do know this is bridging, right? No, I haven't gone and created something new

Eagle1973, we would risk losing this particular boy if he is denied his Arrow of Light again. I sent a PM with more info, but I do understand and agree with your point. I would add that it depends very much on the boy as well though.

All: I'm still not sure what tonight holds, but I thank you again for giving me much to think about in respect to this. Please know that I don't handle advancements or other's feelings lightly, and this was actually a hard thread to start--thus the last-minute asking for ideas.

The pack is not willing to pay for these awards, though I tried to have funds designated to cover one award per boy, leaving the rest of the cost to the family if they chose to buy other awards. So the cost isn't as big an issue as the earning it.

It's pretty ironic that I have this problem, as I'm told that I am "too by the book" when it comes to awards and such. However, I have noticed the cost, know there's just little more than a year to earn this particular set of awards, so it seems to me they are designed to bring recognition to the anniversary in some fun ways. I love the awards, think they're a lot of fun, but some leaders look at me like I've grown two heads for thinking such a thing

Ok, then, thanks for the help. I'll go by what the guy at the scout shop says combined with your posts--you happen to agree with him. Can you imagine FOUR 75th anniversary celebrations?!

Thank you all. I won't elaborate on some of the factors at play here because I truly care about and respect my fellow leaders. As for committee, that's basically the den leaders as most committee members don't show but den leaders do. So I misled you all though that wasn't intentional; I'm sorry about that. I would be proud of and honored to provide any boy with any award or advancement at any time, but at times I am a lone voice in the unit. This type of thinking is not shared by all for varying reasons, but not one that I've found I can agree or jives with BSA training yet. I have the insignia, the den leaders know I have it, and the reason I have it is that I double as advancement chair. Thanks again for taking time to read and respond.

A boy completes Arrow of Light on his own, with the den leader's approval to move forward on it, and he has done so three months ahead of the rest of his den. He is ready to join a troop now, is old enough, is very excited about this, but if he leaves now, he will do so without an AoL ceremony, briding ceremony, opportunity to take part in PWD and Blue and Gold. He says he's ok with that, but I'm not entirely convinced. Here's the wrinkle: not only did he finish "early" (only one bridging & AoL ceremony each year--not sure more than one was ever needed), but he's my son, and I suspect he will miss these things even though he says otherwise. As CM, this puts me in an awkward position because I believe he should be recognized, but I can't get a straight answer from the committee on adding this to the pack meeting for December (which is tonight). What would you do? Surely I can't be the only one to face this dilemna, which by the way, I don't believe should be a dilemna at all. Plain and simple: a boy earns an award, a boy recieves it. I'm ready to do a third Bobcat ceremony, but no one objects to that. Thanks in advance.

At the Scout shop, it was pointed out to me that one person could potentially earn more than one award. I figured that if requirement #1 were earned for one award, it would be earned for the others as well. However, one of the den leaders said this can't be right, that for each award, each item would need to be redone. Can anyone clarify this for me please? As CM, I have deliberately held a pack meeting already that was a celebration of the 75th anniversary, for I know some will miss the Blue & Gold--happens every year. This way there were two opportunities.

Another question: for the pack award, if the pack collectively earns this, doesn't each member of the unit earn it? Or is each ind'l required to do it seperately? I think a unit award is just that--earned by the unit qualifying all in it. But I'd like clarification please.

FYI, I do not usually count any requirement twice, but this award is special and the wording seems to indicate--to me anyway--that it's easier to earn than the other leader thinks. TIA!

What I would love to see happen is that all leaders become focused on making the program fun the boys so that advancement would happen naturally rather than for advancement to come first and fun just to be fit into things if time allows. Wow, long sentence, huh?

Wow, two responses with so very much to think about--thank you. Semper, right now the fond memories are outnumbered by the difficulties faced this past two years, but I agree with you that staying out of obligation is not good--the boys would see that anyway, I think. And Eamonn, you are too kind, but your words are a balm to a rather weary Cub Scouter at the moment. Thank you. You know, you're right--this can wait until after the holidays. The very best to you and yours too!!

Thank you both! Glad to hear it truly is that easy. I have until early February to turn in the recharter, but last year the hard part was gathering signatures, so I want to know what I'm dealing with this time around.

I never ever thought I'd want to leave Cubs, but I've been ready to go for awhile. Sad thing is that I've been involved for such a short time, too short to feel such relief over moving on. Just this week I learned that the person I'd asked to replace me will do so. So, come March 1, I'm not sure what role I'll fill, if any, in Cubs. Both boys will be in a troop, and the troop is great for the boys and adults alike, and my husband would like me to become more involved in the troop. He's not sure how, just thinks I should be there and active. The need in the pack is such that I've been asked to please help however I can, but I wonder...how do you make that kind of decision? When you're really tired of a unit because it always seems to be so hard to have fun, is that a signal that it's time to leave completely? Or maybe to just change roles? For those who've been around awhile or faced a similar decision, I'd welcome your ideas/advice.

I just got the unit ID number today, and I've gone through the tutorial (quickly, just to get an idea of what's involved), and this doesn't look too challenging. The hardest part for me is getting started, and I'm slightly confused on that. Do we simply download the council info, or do we need to wait for the printed release? I've been given some info, but in fairness, I missed training, and not one other person was able to go. TIA.

I've been blessed to have already worked my dream job before a working a second one. When I was about 25, I was activitely helping to recruit a new counselor and director for an organization I volunteered for. In helping to draft the job description as a volunteer board member, in helping with public relations and recruiting and fundraising, in helping train others, I discovered that this was *the* job for me...in about 10 years, after I had gained more experience and perhaps a degree. I set out to do this. I received a call to stop by the office. I was offered the job. It seemed that I was already pegged by many as the ideal candidate, so I took the job, loved it, and left it only when I was pregnant with our first son. It was a wonderful feeling leaving one dream behind, fulfilled, to begin another. Other dreams I have, that I haven't shared a lot, are to be an artist, writer, and photographer. I've been asked to do each, but I found that I as I focused on them as a "job", I didn't enjoy them as much. Therefore, they remain hobbies for now, though I am hoping to combine my drawings and story in a book for children...when I have time to devote to it. One photo has been published in two books, and I'm pleased with that. One thing I've come to realize: my dreams have never earned me and never will earn me much money.

1. Find out what a CO is; none of us had a clue two years ago. All leaders, even those around for awhile, thought the pack ran the pack, and that it was allowed to do so by the CO.

2. Serve the CO. Little odd jobs as they are seen, bigger jobs when able to.

3. Make sure the community knows that the pack is owned by the CO. Do so by naming the pack as "St. Joseph's Cub Scout Pack 000" when submitting publicity releases, for example.

4. Thank the CO, in writing, and whenver possible including boys' signatures, for the opportunities it allows the unit to have in providing the program that the CO began long ago. [poorly worded, but I think you follow]

Last year when we did the Scouting For Food drive, I learned that the CO had a food ministry. The pack hadn't done SFF for a long time, if ever. I got it going last year, and as my son and I headed out with another Cub and leader, we spoke to neighbors along the way. They were thrilled to see Scouts in the area, and we took the opportunity to tell them where we were from, where the food was going, and to thank them for their generosity and their interest in the Cubs. This year when I called to set up a drop off time for the food, the church secretary apologized for not telling me something that happened last year. Apparently after we did our pickups and PR along the way, people began to drop by with bags of food and even frozen foods. She said it was such a blessing and that people stopping in had named me and the Cubs. I'll tell you what: I feel blessed to know that we had a small part in something so much bigger, and then had the privilege of hearing how it grew and continued on by others. Oh, and last year it was a hassle for the CO to take food (not sure why), but this year they were thrilled.

I heard there was CD for each unit, but as CM all mail goes to me, and I even asked the DE, but there's nothing for us. I have hunted and hunted for both games and songs without success. However, I will post a link for our newsletter that has some 75th anniversary stuff (just fun stuff) in case you can use this. This timeframe was at the time of the depression, so there is much on-line about the hardships but little about recreation. Stickball and marbles were around, miniature golf was popular, so I may use these in some way.

Anyone else have ideas? Please?

The link: http://www.ampwares.com/scouts/novnews.pdf(This message has been edited by Laurie)

Eamonn, the prices of all the 75th Anniversary items are high, at least in my opinion. I bought myself a mug for $6.95, a pen for $5.95, the commemorative patch for $3.95, and for my very patient little sidekick while shopping, the clapper for $2. The pack isn't too happy with the prices, so families are being asked to pay for the 75th anniversary awards they earn.

I'm sorry if my post sounded judgemental; re-reading it, I see that it may be taken that way.

As for caravans, I get nervous trying to keep others in sight--kids in car, road to watch, directions to a new place--too much to keep track of, you know? So I suggested something that seems to work for us so far: we do leave at the same time, exchange maps/directions, and exchange cell phone numbers. This way, if a car gets lost, a call can be placed to others for help. We usually ask a boy to answer the phone rather than try to do so while driving. So far, this system is working for us. I've lost friends to driving accidents and been hurt in them myself; driving safety is a subject I take very seriously.

SemperParatus, a belated welcome to the forums!

Eamonn, point taken about people living in glass houses, but (you saw that coming, didn't you?)...

If I am willing to accept responsibility for driving other people to and from an event, I fully expect to be held accountable to following the law, to being alert and rested, to doing all that I possibly can to keep all aboard safe. If I'm not willing to do that, then I shouldn't be behind the wheel. Speeding is not safe driving, and I don't speed. In fact, by following the speed limits, I tend to tick off a lot of people--those behind me in the no-pass zones in particular!

The same applies to other areas, by the way, getting back to glass houses. I am a leader in the unit. I expect that I will be watched, that I may be trusted because the BSA is. If in any way I do something that does not live up to those expectations, then I expect that I will be at the least corrected or maybe asked to step down.

This leader would not my trust, and I'd suggest he haul gear if he'd like to help out. He needs to know why though, and that's been covered pretty well here. By the way, for a time we did not have high enough liability limits to drive others, so we drove gear and no youths other than our own son. There didn't seem to be a problem with that on the local tour permit, so we figured that would be a help to the unit but not place anyone at risk if an accident should occur with a vehicle that had lower than the recommended insurance coverage.

Eamonn, he sounds pretty normal to me. Since their births I worked at a schedule for our boys, and 11 & 12 years later, they are still going to bed at 8 pm. Recently we began allowing them to stay up a little later, but they will often ask to go to bed by then. I wake them at 7 am every morning, and over the summer they were waking as early as 5 & 6 am. A week into school, and they needed to be shaken out of bed by 7. Growth combined with the hard work of school, the athletics and scouting events and social time--it seems perfectly appropriate that a youth would sleep longer considering this stuff. If he really worries you, a call to the doctor wouldn't be out of line. When I notice a significant change in sleeping patterns (has only happened twice), I've called--once it was due to allergies, once it was due to growth, but both times I got piece of mind that things were ok.

I honestly don't know, but since the age of 10 I have volunteered in one capacity or another, usually with kids. Our boys joined Scouts just after our daughter was born, and I had no choice but to cut way back on time spent volunteering at their school just as I became part of the unit leadership. I look forward to going back to school as a chaperone and volunteer aide in a couple of years, and our littlest wants to be a Boy Scout but will settle for Girl Scouts , so I'll most likely become a Girl Scout leader in time too.

I haven't seen the incidents you refer to, but we have one pro team we won't take the unit to due to conduct among the fans. Another team is simply too pricey, doesn't offer discouts, and that was an easy one not to add to the unit calendar. That's the negative.

On a positive note, there are two teams that are very family-friendly to go see, and not just on Scout night. These two teams are added to the unit calendar as soon as the Scout night dates are known. If there is a conflict with Scout night, we will still go, but another time. These are two nights families look forward to due to the sport, the atmosphere, the discounts, and the extra activities offered to Scouts.

My suggestion is to know what the fans are usually like at games, then decide which teams the unit would like to go see in play if you'd like to see pro sports on the calendar.

I was adamant that we not make every pack meeting a time to award something to every boy. What we have done for a year now is to focus on having fun and having ceremonies for advancements every time one or more advancements is earned and awarding other items to those who earned them. Two things have happened: the boys who were awarded what they earned see that it's special, and the other boys set goals to earn what the others got.

The Pinewood derby and raingutter regatta (we just had our first--very cool!) and Cub-anapolis are treated differently. There are awards for first, second, and third place. There are then participation awards. These tend to be very similar, but it's been a positive experience so far. For the specials (best decorated, etc), it was suggested that enough be made that every boy would win one. I was the spoil sport again, and when only a few boys earned this type of award, they were fine with it. The problem with derbies like this is that the boys are at different stages of practicing good sportsmanship. I stress that the participation awards are for demonstrating "doing your best" and "good sportsmanship". It ends the day on a positive note, particularly when some struggled really hard with being good sports (I think of those eliminated early on who have to watch for awhile).

We have very few Cubs, can afford to make/purchase soemthing so that every boy has something in hand at times, but it is very important--IMO--to define the why of doing that.

Hmmm...NJ & I linked in Issues and Politics--that's a first

Pack, that is exactly the tone and language that I find offensive and would cause me to stop listening to the person using it, here or abroad, and regardless of which person is being written about.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

OGE writes: "Sometimes we have to accept people arent where we want them to be, but being insulting and arrogant and talking down to them doesnt work."

I agree with that. I will not debate the election now, though interestingly enough I'm surrounded by family and friends who of a different political party than I am, and they are suddenly interested in wanting to debate. I don't get it; the election is over now so where is the value in the debate?

Our sons have heard quite a bit on the playground at school, and they have formed some very wrong opinions based on what others say rather than fact. One thing I learned is that I need to help our sons learn to research: check out voting records, read all literature from all candidates, watch the debates, etc. in order to form their own opinions based on reason rather than hearsay. They don't have positions they can defend, but one was particularly quick to speak up about his--and that landed him in some hot water.

Another thing I have learned is that it isn't easy asking others to agree to disagree. I'm fine with others having different opinions, but please don't try to tell me I'm wrong for having mine. That is insulting, and it seems to indicate that I am somehow less competent than those of an opposing view. I'll stay away from talk of the present parties, and instead use an example from the past. When a presidential candidate had won that I have not voted for, I had written a letter of congratulations to him but stated that I had not voted for him and gave my concerns. Why would I bother? That is the candidate who won, and I respect the position even when I disagree with the person holding it. That is the candidate who was given a say in what effects my life, and I won't always get my way in who wins. I have the right to disagree and to express that disagreement, but I do not believe I have the right to put down another--no matter how intensely I may disagree with that person.

One other thing I learned, and I am fascinated by this observation, is that the same information is used by opposing parties to show why each is better than the other. The *same* info! The record, the transcript, the document--whatever the item is may not be nearly so important as how each individual percieves it.

It was an interesting campaign. It is one that showed how different the parties are and how different the candidates are. The issues that divide the parties may have no common ground at all, nor would I even try too hard to make that happen (then what defines each candidate?), but that is what makes the voting process such a privilge to me: we each have a say in who will lead us. We won't all win, but we will all take part in the process, and I was proud to be able to vote. I'll echo the sentiment expressed earlier: God bless the USA!

The most important thing I've learned about Cub Scouting and Scouting to date is to enjoy and focus on the path rather than the end result. I'm an achievement-oriented person, always have been, so I tend to be in a hurry to get the job done and done perfectly. That doesn't work with the youth. The relationships that I've been privileged to enjoy as we work toward advancements, serve together, etc. have been moments that often bring a smile to face. I treasure them, and I sincerely hope that in some small way they moments that help define, for better, the lives of those I've spent time with.