Laurie

I have followed this thread, and an example of why we as leaders need to have some form of religion is this:

I served only last year as an assistant den leader to Webelos. We would have a discussion time based on whatever the boys were working on at that time. One evening I asked, "how have you applied the Scout Law and Oath to your life this past week?" One boy immediately answered, "I went to church". The others laughed. Ignoring them, I then asked how going to church was applying the oath and law. He told us that he was being reverent and doing his duty to God, that his time going to church and serving in church was part of his duty. When he realized we were encouraging this by actively listening (we being the leaders--and the boys followed suit), he gave greater detail as to how his church taught him to serve God and how that was a lot like what the Boy Scouts is about too. The others began to talk about how church and Scouts go together. We'd never discussed religion prior to this night, and we didn't venture into teaching the boys that night, but we did praise them for understanding that Scouts wasn't a "one hour a week event" and that church wasn't either, but they were trying to understand and live out what they learned in each of these areas of their lives. I wonder, would an atheist be able to do support the boy who is trying to articulate how his faith fits in with what he is learning in Scouts?

When I first became a leader, I ran this list by the DE to see if our council participated in these awards (I'd read on-line that some councils take part in different awards than others). He confirmed that we could work on any of the following with our Cubs:

Physical Fitness Award

Emergency Preparedness Award

Crime Prevention Award

Donor Awareness Patch

International Activity Badge

Interpreter's Strips

Leave No Trace Awareness

Lifesaving and Meritorious Awards

Recruiter Strip

Religious Emblems

Whittling Chip Card

World Conservation Award

Valley Forge Historic Trail

Good Turn For America

I'd suggest you ask your council as well. Those items listed above are BSA awards. As others have pointed out, there are sporting events and other activities specific to each area that would also have patch opportunities.

Have fun, and welcome!

...respecting persons of all faiths, I humbly submit this prayer in the name of Jesus...

I just heard this in the inauguration (sp?), and the first part caught my attention. I've never heard a prayer stated in that way, and I have been taught to pray in the name of Jesus, so this is something that I think works in relation to the discussion here.

My mom and dad weren't part of Scouting as youth; I don't think they had the opportunity, though they had interest. When I wanted to be a Brownie, both my mom and dad became involved. When my younger brother wanted to become a Cub, both my mom and dad became involved. My sister was a Girl Scout for awhile, but she lost interest as other things competed with her time. My brother earned Eagle, eventually left home for college, but dad was asked to stay on the troop committee. That was over 20 years ago, and he has been the IH for the past several years. He has no desire to leave, nor does the CO wish to see him go. All five of his grandsons, both of his son-in-laws, and both of his daughters are involved in scouting today. All of the boys have expressed interest in Eagle, for they have seen the pride in my dad's face when he brings the OA uniforms and costumes out to show them and tells them stories and shows the home movies of his and my brother's years camping. My husband's brothers were involved in Cubs for a time, his dad was the CM during that time, but they and later on their sons, did not have/keep interest. From all those meet, and from my experience, it seems that when the family is fully involved, scouting tends to move on from generation to generation. If it isn't, there is less of a chance of that happening.

Thanks jens3sons. I'm actually coming to end of my Cub Scouting career (can you call volunteering a career? ) in two months, but I'm looking forward to more involvement with our sons' troop. Enjoy your celebrations, and may they make for wonderful lasting memories for you and all the boys!

I just received another BSA catalog today; the scout shop had given me one awhile back with all the new stuff. I like looking at it too (again), making up my wish list, and 9 of 10 items will remain just that--wishes You're right; we don't have to buy any of it. When we can though, isn't it fun?!

Hey Hops, I agree about the BSA sweatshirt--very nice indeed. The guy at the scout shop knew I'd looked at it before, so he was surprised when I actually did buy one. It is pricey, but it is my favorite sweatshirt. I like to buy them a little big so they are roomy, and yesterday my husband wanted to borrow my sweatshirt (and he likes them snug fitting so this worked). I told him if he insisted on continuing to borrow it, he'd have to buy another one at $42. He promptly removed it

As for the 75th anniversary camping gear, I wondered the same thing. What on earth for?!

Overall, we have little money to spend on this stuff, so it is very disappointing to try to have what we need and see such high prices. We refuse to buy BSA camping gear because all the items offered are found at far better prices elsewhere.

And scoutldr, you didn't mention that the aloha shirt comes in various shades. Now this one I don't get--why did BSA make this shirt? They can be purchased just about anywhere cheaply, and really, who is going to check the tag?!

I can relate to another post in another part of the forums: how do you know when it's time to let go? One unit has some issues that just seem to be spiraling out of control, and the calls come to me for help, and I advise or tell the callers who can help them out, but I don't take on the task myself. Instead, I want to run as far away from it all as possible!

Then another unit... Our older son is active in a troop that he just loves and that our younger son is very anxious to join too. Older son got an e-mail from his SM, asking him to attend a training session and then pass on what he learns to the troop. Our son jumped at the opportunity, saying he was "scared" of the responsibility but wanted to go for it. He was told he could my husband or I along, as we're both registered leaders in the troop, and at least one adult and one youth should attend. He was so funny: he knows I enjoy training, so he said he'd be willing to take me (which is funny because he's the passenger ), but he would like to take Dad. The guys went. They came home with our son so excited. He practically shoved his pages of notes in my face (something he has NEVER done with his school notes!), and I found myself trying hard not to laugh. He had listed some resources and then crossed them out. I asked him why G2SS, Okpik, and Field Guide were crossed out. He said, "well, Mom, YOU have them--can't I borrow yours". So Mom is now a listed resource in several places! He then typed his notes, then tackled one reference, and he was showing me his typed notes. He's added some clip art, some cool fonts, stuff that gives eye appeal to his presentation. As he worked on this, he looked so happy and enthusiastic, and he was quite creative and careful. There is clearly a lot of thought going into this. The training was the cold weather training for the pilgrimage and encampment, and he received a training card. He wanted to know about a training patch and seemed just a little disappointed that there wasn't one for this. You know, THIS is when I see Scouting at its best. A boy is asked to do something that will help his troop (and him--he learned an awful lot today), and with a little uncertaintity he heads out to do what he can. I asked him why he was going if he was so nervous. He was going because his SM asked him to, and the look on his face showed how pleased he was that HE was asked. His task now is to get the info together; the troop has reserved two troop meetings just for cold weather training and has offered him help in doing this. Judging by the way he himself was surprised at his ability to do what he's done so far and the way he threw himself into it already, I have a feeling he'll surprise others too. Or maybe his SM saw something we just haven't seen yet. We love our son; we also live with him and that's just plain different from the troop dynamics. His SM is a good man, a quiet man with a sense of humor who never ever seems to be in too much of a hurry to listen to anyone yet he's always busy, and he is respected by the adults and boys because they know he is genuinely interested in them. It was a good day, a very good day, the kind that showed me how Scouting should work

[sorry for the ramble--I seem to have begun to repeat myself--but I tried to put my finger on just WHY this mattered so much--it's because I can see in this that our son is growing up--quite nicely at that--and his SM ans SAs and PLs are having a wonderful influence on him](This message has been edited by Laurie)

It never crossed my mind that this post, which was really just an FYI post, would become an "issues and politics" post. Good move Hops.

John D, for what it's worth, I think it's great that your Scouts are already helping out. Service isn't something that can be too small a thing, and a little here and a little there adds up. In my opinion, that's when it's neat to be part of something--when we know there are many others taking part too, and the end result comes from several groups doing their part. I like that about Scouts, and Scouting for Food comes to mind. Small collections, big collections--but all go to help those in need.

As for giving when we may/know we'll be criticized. That's a tough one, I think, but my own personal opinion on this--and the way I have taught our children to approach it--is to find ways to give when we see a need without worrying about whether it's appreciated or not, and without even having others know what we do. My hope is to try to help others--also close to home nldscout--when a need is spotted or somehow brought to our attention. Needs are so great and varied that not all will give to all, but I just wanted to post this for those who do want to (1) know what the BSA is doing and (2) may be looking for a way to help themselves.

I may be off in how I should approach helping others as a Scouter, as I can not help at all times as in help every time a need arises. That's what makes serving hard: deciding when and where to do so. nldscout brings this up with the example he provided, and I wonder if part of what we should do in helping is to evaluate the need and the ability to help. For instance, that old example of giving money to someone asking for it for food, and they head off to use the money for drugs or alcohol; there are other ways to meet the real need. My kids through zingers at me with this stuff a lot, but the bottom line is knowing how we can help and where our resources are best used, isn't it?

Happy new year, my fellow Scouters!!(This message has been edited by Laurie)

GTFA has set a deadline of January 5 for the 2004 service hours. Thought I'd post the link in case anyone didn't realize there was a deadline (I didn't, though it does make sense) or in the midst of all the other things you do you hadn't realized how quickly time was passing. Here is the link for the GTFA site, and it also shows the emblem, rockers, and hour total to date:

http://www.goodturnforamerica.org/

http://www.scouting.org/media/tsunami/index.html

I check the national site out frequently, and the above link is new. I am glad the BSA is taking action to help out and has provided ways for others to help, and I thought my fellow Scouters would want to see this if you haven't already. What a tragedy this was, and the news in the past hour or so gave new warnings of tsunamis along coastal areas. The news to date is simply overwhelming, and my prayers are lifted for those living in the effected areas and those with loved ones there.

fotoscout, the only thing I disagree with about your post is that I know of a unit that looked good on paper but was a mess in reality. The adults did not play nice, but there were no patrols, no training for the boys, no program from week to week, and advancement was sporadic as was attendance. It met the requirements, but calling it quality seemed wrong in my opinion. And though the pack met the reqts, it has an ongoing problem with doing things the way they've always been done versus the way we've learned they should be done. Thus my opinion (though I've not been around for long, admittedly) that the form may not accurately reflect what the unit is like. Is it good? I think it's excellent, use it often, but think quality involves a bit more than what can be captured on paper.

The troop our son joined a few months back does not have a newsletter. It used to, but it learned that Scouts and their families didn't read it, so they decided to stop the printing of it for awhile.

The pack had the same problem, but I now (as CM) put together a newsletter about once every three months, include the boys' awards and serviced projects, welcome new families, just touch on highlights of the time frame involved. This goes from my hands directly to the parents' hands, and I'm not sure yet if it gets read or not. Time will tell.

I don't know why anyone would want to be a counselor for much more, but if one is so inclined then why not

I can't answer your question about limits as I don't know the national or even our council and district limits, if any. However, I know of two potential problems with one person serving as MB counselor for several MBs. (1) A person is counselor to the unit only. He counsels for 30 MBs. He remains on the unit list but is not available when needed. (2) A unit has a few MB counselors, betweeen them covering all MBs, and each will serve the unit only. Each, of necessity, needs to cover several MBs as the MB counselors in this unit will only serve this unit and the unit does not use counselors outside the unit.

I don't agree with the above, don't find that it meshes with BSA literature on the topic, but it does happen. I'm figuring it probably isn't a unique situation and may address the why of someone counseling in so many MBs.

Thank you, Ken.

eagle-pete: Your post got my attention; I'd love to hear more about the interviews you had with pack families and the boys and how things worked when you implemented their suggestions.

Thought-provoking question. My response would be any unit that consistently provides the program as the BSA outlines it, that utilizes the training & literature & other resources in order to teach citizenship, fitness, and character while having fun. I'm not sure this is something that can accurately be measured, but the forms we fill out should be utilized to indicate strong and weak points, and when used in that way, a unit can better plan for the following year. That's how I approach this anyway, and I look forward to other responses.

I was given gift certificates for scrapbook supplies so I may continue my hobby guilt free I also received some gloves and fleece shirts--great for hiking and much needed as it's c-c-c-old!

Husband and sons received compasses, wool socks, lanterns, flashlights (even one that straps to the head--very cool), and various other camping/outdoor items.

My greatest joys were seeing my children's happy faces when they received the special things they asked Santa for, sharing traditions from a generation and two ago, and playing with the kids' new toys, especially the princess dolls. Oh, to be a kid again!!

We are required to send signed, completed apps in for any new adult or change in position for an adult with the recharter. Therefore, even though this is internet rechartering, we still have paperwork to have completed, signed, and turned in along with it.

So, for those who are not new adults, are we required to have SSNs? If so, I can get these from each leader prior to renewal.

As for timing, we recharter in February, but that is because our districts are staggered due to the large size of the council. The only thing I don't care for about this is that our recharter time is different from that of the program year which and that effects the budget, making the budget confusing to many.

Well said, scoutldr--I'll simply say "ditto" to that. Merry Christmas everyone, and thank you Terry, OGE, and Hops!

Thank you, scoutldr! Great idea about the grouping of the event patches and the wording. Being concise is not my strong point

So, event patches (fundraisers, camping trips, pilgrimage, & the like) would be one category. GTFA is something that many of our families still don't quite "get", so that would be separate. Then there's the Recruiter patch and strip. The link to the inspection sheet would take care of Quality Unit and other insignia. Would that be easier to follow, do you think?

Thanks again!

Oh holy night

The stars are brightly shining

It is the night

Of our dear Savior's birth

Long lay the world

In sin and error pining

Til He appeared

And the soul felt it's worth

A trill of hope

The weary world rejoices

When yonder breaks

A new and glorious morn

Fall on your knees

Oh hear the angel voices

Oh night divine

Oh night when Christ was born

Oh night divine

Oh night divine

Thought I'd join in this sing-a-long and wish you all a very merry Christmas by sharing one of my favorites. May we all know the joy and peace and worth we have in the Babe born that Holy night so long ago.

A Scouter friend pointed out to me that my definition of temporary was incorrect, so that is now corrected.

To my knowledge, there are no council patches with segments in this council. If so, I've not seen them.

Quality Unit--thank you! The boys are not wearing it; it may be that they don't know how.

My goal was in helping this unit (a Cub pack) with proper placement of patches. I know many don't bother with them because they don't know what to do with them.

Thanks!

I just uploaded a page to help our families answer Cub Scout patch questions. If anyone has a spare moment (and I sure don't expect that this weekend!!), I'd appreciate any inaccuracies being pointed out please. Thanks a bunch!

The link is:

http://www.ampwares.com/scouts/patchpage.html

Merry Christmas everyone!!! I had to take a break from housecleaning, shopping, etc., and this is how I did it (This message has been edited by Laurie)

We leave it up to the families as the families pay for it if they opt to subscribe. I have encouraged subscribing to it, but I am the only leader who is in favor of it. Therefore, we have few subscribing. Why subscribe? It is age-appropriate, designed specifically for boys, and without any objectionable content (though I wouldn't mind fewer electronic game ads but my son loves them ). In reading through other magazines, I can't say the same things. As a parent, I feel confident that this magazine is a "safe" read for the boys. They each like something different: one likes the comics, jokes, and the Scouts in Action. The other likes the articles, always finding something new and interesting to talk about. It adds a dimension to Scouting too by showing what other Scouts do, by showing that Scouting is not just a local thing.