ASM162

Themis,

Our Troop has gone to Valley Forge a few times.

In the visitor's center, you may want to purchase the guidebook for scouts. It is a map and compass route, and a very good exercise for boys working on advancement. The map and compass route, IMO, is somewhat of a challenge. I have hiked the trail a few times, with different scouts, and each hike was slightly different than the last. It is very easy to miss a turn, as many of the trails are not marked, and at various points on the route, you are not even on a trail. The scouts must use their map and compass, as well as their eyes and brain to determine their positions and orient themselves to the trail. The map and compass route is about 9 miles total, and we have always completed it in about 6 hours, with breaks for lunch and snacks, and of course following the history lesson in the guidebook.

Camping is available nearby at the Valley Forge Fire Staion grounds. The VFFC charters Troop 73.

http://www.vftroop73.org/

If you are interested in camping on their grounds, just follow the links for the camping information.

A word of advice, the campsites fill up fast, so you may want to check out site availability ASAP.

A scout in our Troop wants to take Swimming MB next year, at camp. When he did the swim test, he passed, but was exhausted, even after the rest while floating on your back portion of the test.

When he asked if he could take it, He was told that we'll see what next year brings.

He really wants to earn the MB, but in reality, he just dosen't have the stamina yet.

I don't necessarily have a problem with the local council sharing in the wealth. I do not know how any other counciloperates on the distribution of the profit from the popcorn sale, but my council doesn't take the 70% profit and split it 35%-35%. It is more like a 40%-30% split with the 40% going to the council. I would be more agreeable to get on board if this was reversed, with the 40% going to the unit. Afterall, the unit is doing the legwork. Yes, I know that the council provides support for the popcorn sale, but is that support really worth taking the extra 5% from the unit?

Now there is the issue of using a swipe card reader to accept credit cards. I can understand the concept of increased sales because of the convienience of using a CC, but again, the charge for each transaction comes out of the unit's profit. Again, I believe that since the unit is doing the actual selling of the product, that the transaction charge should come out of the council profit.

Sorry, but all of the cheerleading in the world is not going to change my mind about how I feel about the popcorn sale.

hicountry -

That $20.00 donation will go straight to the unit.

This is much better than buying the $25.00 trail mix, and the unit only getting the table scraps after the council takes its cut.

"The device also emails a receipt to the buyer after the sale has gone through. So if your worried about fraud, you have a receipt for what was paid for."

So, do you have to request an e-mail address from the prospective buyer to provide a Credit card receipt?(This message has been edited by ASM162)

"We came out of THAT discussion with the understanding that we should use the card reader as a last resort, to save a no sale, because the money comes right out of the unit."

First let me clarify that I hate selling popcorn.

The above statement really isn't motivating me to sell more popcorn. If anything, the 2.75% should come out of the council share. The units are doing all of the legwork, and while the district/council is providing support, the bottom line is that, without the units, the council gets nothing.

I am also curious as to what"bugs" will need to be worked out.

So, no, I'm not jumping on the credit card bandwagon yet.

Hi Moose,

The summer camp that our Troop attends requires the mobilization plan, which the Troop does have, and it gets updated after every Troop election. It is essentially a telephone tree list, but the PLC is toying with the idea of a text system, since most of the boys have their own phones.

Each scout also is required to have their own mobilization pack. As far as the family emergency kit, the scouts need to know what to include in such a pack and to include any medication and to not forget about any pets, and what is required for their proper care.

I saw this last night, and I was pleased to see the scouts and Larry laughing and carrying on. Larry is a great jokester, and the kids seemed to enjoy his humor. Plus, the show did showcase some of what the BSA is all about.

I was just going to post something along the lines of what Abel just posted. How useful is this tool if potential scouts are not even aware that it exisits?

IMO, it still comes down to advertising. To this day, I do not understand why BSA does not spend some $$ on advertising.

All of these online videos are good as a source of info, but if the target audience doesn't know that they exist, let alone know how to access them, then they are useless.

Open houses and school visits are good tools, and right now probably the most effective methods of recruiting, but the folks at national can do a tremendous service and create advertisements to be shown while kids are watching Spongebob.

I think that I would keep Eagle Projects just as they are.

There is a protocol that must be followed by the Life Scout to get the project approved.

This helps with adult association, and project management.

The Life scout has to keep the benefactor of the project updated concerning the approval process, and come to an agreement as to when the project can start. Also, he must determine how long the project will take, and come to an agreement with the benefactor as to what constitutes completeion of the project.

We must remember that the average age of the Life Scout, at this point in his scouting career is probably 14-15 years old. The Eagle Project workbook is IMO, just about right; though I do think that Eagle projects are better suited for older scouts 16 1/2 to 17 yrs, 364 days.

One thing that I might change is to have parent(s) of the Life Scout not particpate in the project directly. They can help in the background with drinks, snacks and such, but just keep back during the execution of the project.

Moosetracker -

Where I live in Central PA, the county parks are great resources, and surprising, at least to me, is the fact that they have scout programs already in place.

We worked on the Forester and Naturalist activity badges concurrently, and were able to complete the requirements for both in one very long day. We were outdoors most of the time, so it diddn't SEEM to take all day. This was something that I had come across in my search for help with these badges.

The Geologist Badge, I found a local cavern (tourist attraction), that had a WEBELOS program already in place. Again, within a day, the boys were able to complete all of the requirements.

The only downfall to this is the fact that it has a cost involved. But I figured that that is why we do fundraisers.

When I had a WEBELOS den many years ago, I did alot of my own research for Forester, Naturalist, and Geology. The Outdoorsman badge seemed to be related to getting the boys out camping.

Now, while I certainly appreciate the outdoors, I do not consider myself very knowledgable when it comes to plant and animal identification.

So, with that in mind, I found places to take the WEBELOS scouts and had the folks who are knowledgable in things related to Forestry, and Naturalist and Geology instruct and guide the boys.

For Forester and Naturalist, I found a nature center that catered especially to WEBELOS scouts. For Geologist, I took the boys to a local cavern, that again, had a program especially for WEBELOS Scouts.

Now, of course, I went along and I participated right there with the boys.

About a year after crossing over to our Troop, I was asked to help with an OWL training course, and since no one else volunteered for the outdoor group, I reluctantly took it on.

I set up the presentation with:

"Here are the requirements for each activity pin."

"Here is a place that you can go to complete the activity pin."

"Here is something that you can do in your den for one or two of the requirements for each pin." (See below)

Forester - I went to our local lumber yard and asked for several scrap pieces of wood. the man in charge gave me samples of poplar, oak , cherry, pine, maple and a few others. I labeled them 1,2,3,etc, and kept an answer sheet. Let the boys look at the samples, touch them, smell them, etc and try to identify them.

Naturalist - I found pictures of the poisonous plants and printed them out, so that the boys would know what poison ivy, poison oak and poison sumac look like.

We played a game with a ball of yarn where the boys made a "Web of Life" One boy was the sun, one was plant life, one was insect, one was mammal, one was fish, etc. If one part of the chain disappeared, what other life forms would be affected? If the life form that you represented was affected, you had to drop your part of the yarn.

We also played a game where I had pictures of different types of environments. A suburban location, a wooded area, a swamp, a lake, a river, mountains, etc.I laid them on the floor and then I asked the boys to pick a location, other than the suburban scene, and pretend that they were an animal that lived in that environment; and place their foot on that picture. Then, I would come around, and go to the wooded area and say, "A company bought this land, and this environment is going to change and possibly disappear. Is there another place that you can go to to live?" If they could live in another environment, they would move to that picture. If the animal that they represented could not live in another environment, thay may die off. Many of the boys ended up in the suburban area. It was a nice way to show that that is why sometimes wild animals are encroaching on human turf, or vice versa.

Geologist - I had container filled with sand and added water to it, to demonstrate erosion. I also had some rock samples that the boys could identify.

Outdoorsman - We practiced setting up tents, and worked on knot tying. Like I said, this was more camping related, as I remember.

Anyway, sorry for the long post, but that was wat I shared with the participants in the OWL traing course.

Hope it helps.

UCEagle72 said:

>>>>And to some of the other comments -- I know that the UMC I attended "up north" has a requirement that anyone working with youth -- from the nursery through high school -- was required to have a background check, and fingerprinting done -- and that was started back in 2000.

>>>>Trying hard not to hijack this thread

SP and BP -

I can understand the church not wanting to recharter to avoid liability issues. Just be up front about it.

Don't adopt restrictive rules at the drop of a hat, if the real reason that you no longer want to recharter a scout unit is because you are concerned about liability.

I belong to a Catholic Church that used to charter a Cub Pack.

Things were OK until the sex abuse scandal hit.

Once the Catholic Church youth protection and volunteer screening requirements came about, I believe that the parish priest used that as a springboard to not recharter the Cub Pack; as he put in requirements that ANYONE WHO HAD ANY CONTACT WITH THE YOUTH OF THE PARISH HAD TO GO THRU THE SCREENING PROCESS! (Not screaming, just emphasizing). This included any and all family members who would attend a B&G banquet, Pinewood Derby, etc.

Since it was, in the opinion of many of the Pack members to be an undue burden, the Pack committee sought out to find another CO. They found that the local UMC church would charter them, without the undue burden of background screening, etc.

The parish priest claimed that the requirement came down from the Diocese. I haven't checked on it personally, but since there are several parishes in the Diocese who still charter Packs and Troops, I have a hard time believing that everyone in those units (parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles, etc)submitted to the extra screening.

Scoutfish said:

>>I learned that the (husband/wife) CC and CM burnet through $3,000.00 in 3 weeks. What did they buy?

>>>>Your Council probably doesn't need to know, but it'd be good information if your District Finance Committee is looking over it. They're far more apt to take into consideration everything you're doing to see if you're overkilling it.

The Troop that I serve has just begun using this form when we do unit fundraisers.

I too, question the need of the council to know how much we have in our treasury, and what our dues are, etc.

We sell popcorn, and as a unit, we might sell $1000 worth of the stuff. After the council takes their cut, the scouts get very little for their own scout accounts to help pay for outings and summer camp.

Therefore,we have an annual sub sale,so that the boys can actually make some decent money, and help pay for summer camp.

We do this every year, and time it so that boys who need camperships, know how much to apply for.

We do this fundraiser because selling popcorn in our neck of the woods is a joke.

Council doesn't query us about our Troop financials when it comes time to sell popcorn, so why do they need to know our financial status when we are trying to provide the scouts an opportunity to pay their own way?

BTW, I don't object to submitting the form, I just think that the query about Troop finances is a bit far reaching.(This message has been edited by ASM162)

JMHawkins said:

"On a more serious note, a CEO needs an understanding of what the organzation is doing at the delivery level a lot more than he needs an airport and a net connection. Frankly, I think your idea is fantastic, at least once in a while he ought to do it."

A Scout is Thrifty.

I do agree with the above statement. It certainly couldn't hurt for the CSE to spend his time at the local councils when he is travelling. It is certainly much less expensive than paying several hundred dollars a night for a hotel suite. He could also get a better overall feel for what is happening "in the trenches", so to speak.

"Then change the perception. Point out that (in our council any way) 70% of the cost of popcorn purchase stays within the council (or state in our case)

Most people will look at the price of that $10 bag of pocorn differently if you explain $3.50 stays within the state and $3.50 stays within the pack (our council YMMV)"

You say change the perception - OK then where to you draw the line?

I mean can you sell popcorn for $20 a bag? $3.00 to Trails ends, $8.50 to council and $8.50 to the unit. $30.00 per bag, $40.00 per bag?

Will people still purchase popcorn at this price, even though you are informing them of just how much money stays local?

When people start to make significant donations, they are going to want a receipt for tax purposes. We currently do not provide a receipt for purchases of popcorn.

As someone mentioned before, it is easier to sell 10 reasonably priced items and make a dollar profit on each, that it is to sell one overpriced item and make a $10.00 profit.

Personally, I think this type of option does a disservice to those scouters who gave up a weekend to attend the scheduled course, as well as those who are on the training committee, who generously give of their time to staff the IOLS training.

Our district just completed two consecutive weekends of IOLS, to accomodate nearly 100 scouters who "needed" the training to register as SM's and SA's for the upcoming recharter. Now, I would venture to guess that about 75% of those in attendance these past two weekends, have enough experience to "opt out", if they so desired. My guess is that there will be some disgruntled, newly trained SM's when and if this option is exercised by our council. I can envision the statements of 'If I had known I could test out, I wouldn't have bothered with the weekend course!'

Also, with the number of scouters who need the training, and who didn't bother to register for the IOLS training on the scheduled dates, how do they expect to "test out" of IOLS without inconveniencing the training chair, or members of the training committee. These folks have lives outside of scouting, just like they do.

Also, is the criteria for testing out going to be consistant from council to council? This just seems to me to be very subjective.

I don't know, I just see this as creating additional hassles for our professionals and volunteers who are on the training staff.

I used to be an Eagle

and a good ole Eagle too,

But now I've finished Eagleing

I don't know what to do

I'm growing old and feeble

And I can Eagle no more

So I'm going to work my ticket if I can.

Back to Gilwell, Happy Land!

I'm going to work my ticket if I can.

NE-IV-164

Eagle 732,

Try this link:

http://www.vftroop73.org/

The campground is for Scout Troops only. We have camped there, as it is in close proximity to the National Park.