Knight

Wow - terrific ideas.

How about an inexpensive little stuffed tiger and put a Cub Scout logo on it? Present it with a certificate that says something like "Mary Smith - World's Greatest Tiger Tamer."

Maybe I'm not too clever, but, then again, kids like stuffed animals.

I'd work with the CC to find a parent who can do communication tasks - hopefully with that person using the boys to do some of the work. The SPL should be designating and working with a lower APL/PL to help out.

In the absence of a designated adult leader, it seems like the CC ought to be carrying a substantial load of the comunication responsibility.

scottteng:

The summer camp at Tanah Keeta is a very good program - my son is very excited about going back again this year.

The caveats:

A. The hike and orienteering sections were awful.

B. As with anything else in Scouting, results depend upon the boy and the Patrol / Troop.

A final note: Tanah Keeta's man-made facilities are uniformly, well, a dump. The boys learn to "rough it" by living in hot, humid and buggy conditions with very crude facilities.

Look at pictures of Americans over the past 30 years and you can see the general increase in average weight. It has been documented by innumerable studies. Go to your local council and look at pictures of Wood Badge classes over the past three decades. The increase in sizes is right there.

My observation comes from when I go to roundtables or large gatherings of Scout leaders. There, I see lots of very overweight people. I really don't perceive this to be as much of an issue in my individual local units - I perceive there is a wide mix of individual body types there. My perception of overweight body types really comes from when I see many scouters together at once.

Of course there are individual cases and individual physiques - as any reasonable person expects there to be. But as a whole, the population of Scouters and the general US population is overweight. We Scouters are supposed to be leaders. Childhood diabetes and obesity are increasing in frequency. We should be leading and setting good examples. Again, there is no panacea answer. But that does mean we should not make an effort to improve our physical well-being? Does that mean obesity and diabetes should just be accepted as inevitable? I say no. I believe we can be better leaders by, for example, not eating cookies and not drinking sugary beverages. We don't need to have cookies, cakes, chips, sodas and juices at every den, pack or troop meeting. IMHO, I see no reason ever to have them at at leaders meetings.

No, we are not going to solve this problem by being do-gooders - but we can take common sense steps to address the issue straight on. It is right in front of us in the mirror every day.

For those who get upset, I'm sorry to upset you. This is an issue that is facing plenty of people; I'm not addressing any individual person or persons. I'm addressing the Scouter population as a whole.

And Buffalo, my expression is "kicking the wasp's nest." Yes, I did want to kick this wasp's nest. I hope to get Scout leaders thinking about the topic in councils, districts and units everywhere. We have a duty to ourselves and to our children to try to do something.

"God has given you a body - no, He has lent it to you - to make the best use of; not to soak it in drink, not to make it limp and weak with debauchery, but to take care of, to strengthen and build up..." - Robert Baden-Powell

I'd suggest calling Scoutstuff.org and asking them about a rush order. I'd bet they'll accomodate you.

I found some official Scout shirts very cheaply by looking around at www.craigslist.org

Parents on a new scout campout - certainly - but we need to educate carefully the parents to keep their distance.

We recently has a Second Class Scout at a camp where his family went along. The family set up their tent away from the Scouts.

Nevertheless, that Scoout many times many times reverted to the cry of "Mom!" when he could not find something or did not know how to accomplish this task or that.

Buffalo is right:

"Most likely this will be their last campout with the Scouts (unless they are a leader) because as their boys get older, it will be very "uncool" to have mom or dad around. It's a win, win for the Troop. You have a parent to help at camp, you have a happy parent/scout and one that will stay with the Troop. Most parents, after they have made it thru Cub Scouts want to help the Troop in some way, they just need a little more attention that first year."

Has chivalry been completely excised from BSA?

The Oath and Law are all elements of chivalry, but nowhere does the word itself or discussion of the cohesive whole concept appear in current BSA literature.

Even in these excellent forums, my search found only twenty threads mentioning the word.

Hmmm...

Thank you for your reply, jblake. Point well taken. It saddens me to see people lugging around all that baggage all the time.

Coming back to the topic, I'm hoping to elicit suggestions and discussion as to how we all can encourage weight loss amoung Scout leaders and ways to make it happen in the Scouter program.

Ohio_Scouter,

That's a great idea. No single soution is going to fix the problem. Cub Scout leaders, Committee Chairpersons, will never go to Philmont nor would I want to make it a mandatory requirement. Nor would all adult leaders feel comfortable in an outdoor / athletic setting. Aduiltn leaders bring a wide variety of skills and capacities to the organizations. But your suggestion, along with many other ideas, is part of a large range of things we need to be doing to get this problem under control.

I believe the fat leader problem needs to be added to every council, district and unit permanent agenda. Honestly and squarely address the issue and take real steps to solve it.

Hi. I'm a newbie here and hope I'm not out of line, but I really wanted to share my observation of a common issue I see. I know I'll offend many; nevertheless, I think the topic is a 900 pound gorilla in the room that everyone ignores.

Fat Adult Leaders

I know fatness and obesity are a problem common to all Americans, not just Scouters. However, the beer belly adult leader (male and female) seems to be the norm. I believe we, as leaders, are not setting good examples of living the first part of the third duty in the Scout Oath ("keep myself physically strong") when we are so overweight.

I'd love to find ways to encourage leaders to be more healthy. Why is there bug juice and cookies at each Roundtable? I say OK, but only if we all hiked at least a mile to get to the Roundtable. My local district even goes further by having periodic "hot dog plus potluck" meetings in place of the usual roundtable discussion.

I have no panacea, but I'd like to find ways to encourage leaders to be a little more physically fit. Any ideas?

I suggest no food at roundtables or adult leader meetings, etc. Use good old fashioned H2O instead of sodas, "sports drinks" and bug juice at Scout meals. Have weight-loss competitions be part of the standard roundtable agenda. Discourage snacks at unit meetings.

Go ahead and citicize me if you wish. However, this is my belief.

I think we need to set better examples for our children.

"Paper Eagles"

Generating lots of merit badges and signing off on requirements without a fairly high standard of quality / competence is doing a disservice to the Scouting program and the boy.

Just like "grade inflation" in occurs schools, so too does this problem occur in Scouting.

Look at the definition of "Eagle Scout" in original Boy Scout Handbook:

"The all-round perfect scout."

This is an extremely high standard. Yes, as a parent, I consider my sons to be incredibly gifted and talented. As an ASM, I'm very proud of each of the Scouts in our Troop. BUT... "all-round perfect scout" is a model that I hope we don't "dumb down" just to say we are pumping out Eagle Scouts.

IMHO, the mass earning of merit badges in large Scout gatherings often results in severely lessened/lowered standards of having "completed" the merit badge requirements.

For example, the Gulf Stream Council's summer camps last year resulted in hundreds of Scouts receiving their sign-offs for:

Second Class 1b - "Using a map and compass together, take a five mile hike..."

and

First Class 2 - "using a compass, complete an orienteering course that covers at least one mile..."

My son showed me that his book had been signed for these requirements.

What the boys did in reality was: Walk out the entrance road of Camp Tanah Keeta and then along the sidewalks of the adjoining subdivisions until they reach 2 1/2 miles. Then, turn around and walk back. Some of the Scouts at the front of each group call out the compass directions they are walking.

That may suffice for the Gulf Stream Council, but as for my son, he's had to do full five mile hikes, on roads and off, using his map and compass the whole way to get real experience and understanding. He's also completed a full one mile orienteering course separately. By the time he got done with that one mile course, he was VERY experienced in using his compass and map to find his way, estimating distancing using a standard pace and measuring/estimating the height/width of things such as trees, towers and ditches.

It starts in the Cub Scouts.

It is mentioned below that some Webelos I's received their Arrow of Light by the time of the Blue & Gold. I've seen similar things in my younger son's pack. During an earlier year, the Webelos I's had received all twenty of the activity badges by the end of their first year as Webelos. Possible on paper? Yes. But did they really get a full experience and really learn the subject? I sincerely doubt it.

For example, I don't believe the Craftsman activitiy badge can be earned a short order. Among the requirements:

- Build two wooden objects... use a coping saw or jig saw for these projects.

- Make a display stand or box...

- Make four useful items ...other than wood... These must be challenging and must involve several operations.

At the District roundtables, we were told the monthly craft projects that Home Depot offers on Saturday mornings were great ways to complete many of the Craftsman requirements. The Council offers weekend camps where the Craftsman badge can be earned in one weekend along with four other activity badges.

That may work for many folks out there, but, Home Depot-type craft projects only involve a few tacks, some glue and NEVER require any saws. They are great for Tigers through Bears, but hardly adequate for what Webelos should be learning.

Another council-sponsored event resulted in Webelos receiving ther Athlete activity badge after attending a one week "day camp" program. How does that happen when one of the primary requirements is to show improvement in a variety of excercises after thirty days?

IMHO, this approach sets the lowered expectations for achieving Boy Scout ranks and merit badges and, ultimately, results in a lessening of the meaning of the achievements, including Eagle Scout.

As a parent, I will work with my sons to ensure they earn their ranks and badges, not just receive them. My wife and I will not push our sons through the program to get to Eagle ASAP.

As an ASM, I can only do so much. The ongoing theme I present to the Scouts is the old BSA slogan, "Follow the Rugged Road." Don't take the easy way. Don't do just the minimum. Do the full experience. Learning involves repetition and mistakes.

Paper Eagles, like a paper airplane, give the appearance of soaring. True Eagles Follow the Rugged Road.

http://stores.ebay.com/My-Worldwide-Scout-Guides-Shop_Leader-Plume-Hat-Patch_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ4QQftidZ2QQtZkm

This seller has plumes from around the world. Also, keep searching ebay in general - BSA pins show up from time to time.

I am glad to have found this forum. The information here is very useful and helpful.

I am an Assistant Scoutmaster and also a Pack Committee Member. I am also a former Cubmaster. Together with my wife, we have been very active in Scouting.

I have two sons - One is a Webelos 1 and the other is a First Class Scout.

We live near Boca Raton, Florida. Translated, that means rat mouth. The original name is "Boca de las Ratones." Boca also means a bay. Ratones refers to the pirates or "rats" who hid in the bay. Boca de las Ratones = bay of the rats.

I hope perhaps I'll be able to add to the usefulness of the forum in order to help other Scouts and Scouters.