kari_cardi

Thanks for the input and the reassurance that I am on the right track!

Yes, I do. I think that the attention to safety and details also attracts some parents, and gives additional peace of mind.

I've heard that training resistance is especially a problem in Roman Catholic units where the volunteers have to do diocesan training along with BSA training.

We've used ScoutTrack, we've used ScoutManage. Looking at something new for this year. Anyone try Scout Spirit?

I like using a program to manage advancements and awards. I do most of the pack recordkeeping and am AC it helps me be more organized. I also like it as a scout parent, as I can see very easily and clearly what my scout needs to accomplish for awards. My den leaders also find that it is a source of ideas for new activities. We don't use a program for the troop and it's a constant question of who has earned what, whether it has been awarded,etc. I like online programs that everyone can access so there are no mysteries or surprises.

Getting everyone to use a program is a different issue. I've offered to teach the other leaders and for the leaders who are not at all computer-literate or who do not have computer access, I offer to enter the data for them. When they realize that their scouts are earning fewer awards than the other scouts, they generally come around. I also enter data for pack events, like achievements completed at family camp. I send out reminders of when data needs to be submitted, but I don't go chasing after it. It takes time to change a culture, I suggest patience.

I came into this thread intending to suggest dry shampoo (homemade or commercial) and hats. Good to find that my sensitivity to most synthetic scents is protecting me from bears.

Our troop has a set of by-laws that need revision. I've volunteered to help with this task. Is it common for a troop to have by-laws? I don't really understand what by-laws are, even after doing some googling around. In my experience, this document would be better characterized as 'guidelines' or 'procedures'. The troop by-laws are full of very specific topics such as what a full uniform entails and when the troop committee meets. What say you, experienced Scouters? I appreciate your wisdom.

I have been reading this discussion with interest. When my son was a Bear, I definitely thought the Bear program was repetitive and also, "too much like school." He was also bored with the program.

 

Webelos I and II go much meatier and more interesting.

 

Baden-Powell Scouting (BPSA) has kids in grades 3-5 together as one group, and that grouping seems good to me. GSUSA has Brownies as girls in grads 2-3. I'd say being a troop leader, grade 3 (second year of Brownies) was where it really got fun.

 

I don't know why we all are pushing so hard to get little little children into Scouting. When I was young, Girl Scouts didn't even start till 2nd grade! I see moms and dads in my town trying so hard to get Daisies started for their little girls (k-1st grade) and the evening meetings are just so hard on kids that young, and the parents are tearing their hair out. We have a big retention problems in 4th and 5th grade too (Juniors) and I think it is because the parents are so burned out.

 

I have a question about pack camping. Why is is Cub Scouts don't camp just with their leaders? I know it is popular to state the Girl Scouts don't go camping, and I'm sure that's true for many troops. But many troops DO go troop camping, and if they are doing it the "official Girl Scout way" they camp with their leaders and perhaps a chaperone or two. This starts as early as Brownies, so 2nd grade, in most cases. Certainly girls in grades 4 and 5 (Juniors) are not family camping where each girl has her parent along.

 

I have been on very pleasant Girl Scout camping trips (where we prepared the girls to do most of the work through practice and progression of skills) and I have been on some dreadful Cub Scout family camping trips, where boys ran around with no responsibility, and a passel of adults did all the work. Even with a good deal of planning, it just felt like there were too many adults around. What is the point of having all those parents come along on a camping trip for the boys?

I'm active as a Cub Scout leader and as a Boy Scout leader. I don't think Cub Scouts is too long even with the Boy Scout perspective added to my world view. I think the program is too repetitive and leans too heavily on the den leaders.

I do think there are leaders who work better with older boys who might see the Cub Scout years as endless. I think it might also help if volunteers could work with a preferred rank rather than following their son through the ranks.

I don't think Cub Scouts is too long, I think the Tiger age is fine. I think the program is too repetitive from rank to rank and often requires more volunteers to easily implement than are available. It could be much more streamlined, focused on core ideas and have more clarity. I think the standard and the goal should be to meet twice a month with quarterly pack meetings instead of monthly. In my experience, it is the pace of a standard Cub year that burns out leaders. In Cub Scouts, the leaders have to entertain the boys every week in some fashion. Totally different than Boy Scouts where the scouts entertain themselves. The time commitment is higher in Boy Scouts but the amount of planning is less. That is what I see in my household with two top unit leaders and boys in both programs.

We have a GSUSA leader in our pack right now who keeps making comparisons to what GSUSA does and what BSA does, or at least in the ways it is interpreted locally. BSA frustrates her. I can see why, it frustrates me too. Most of the differences come down to two factors. First, BSA has much more stringent safety guidelines. Girl Scouts are not restricted from many of the fun activities that Cub Scouts are not allowed to do according to the GTSS. Second, structure. A troop of 12 girls with a few committed parents can do more and be much more flexible about what they do than a pack of 30 with a few overworked leaders. A troop also does not have to spend nearly the time our pack does in recruitment. It's time away from the program

I think the really good GSUSA troops take the meatier, outdoor-oriented BSA content and translate it to smaller unit model. I have a former CM and current CM doing this right now with their daughters and their troops are very successful.

I wish we had a troop historian! Oh to be a larger troop! Alas, we struggle on.

We've retained advancement records and general troop history and shredded years of applications and medical forms.All the ribbons are now on the troop flag pole and lots of miscellaneous patches and things are donated. I asked the church treasurer about our financial records, thinking that really it is a CO issue, and he also suggested the standard 7 years. We are a little light on records a few years back, but the current treasurer is doing a great job.

Thanks for the advice!

We've been going through stored boxes for the pack and the troop. Any references or thoughts on how long we need to hold onto records? We have advancement records going back at 15 years, stacks of old applications, re-charter documents, etc. If there is a resource from BSA on this, I've missed it and would appreciate the information.

jblake, I appreciate the different point of view you bring to the table, but what you are suggesting isn't feasible in my experience. Most parents I know, myself included, would not feel comfortable dropping a child off at the home of a volunteer they didn't know. I would not trust the person or the location. Using the child care services at camp is much more comfortable. The location has been cleared by camp staff, the volunteers have had YP training and often background checks, and the kids are accessible and visible during camp. If I knew a group of parents who were interested in volunteering together, we could easily arrange child care among ourselves. I don't. I'm in a large district and generally know only two or three other volunteers at camp each time I've attended. I pay enough for the privilege of volunteering for BSA, I am not going to add child care costs to that total.

Cub Scouting is a family program. It's a family program because, IMO, that is what works for scouts between the ages of 6 and 11. They come with siblings who are too young to be left home alone, and the parents who volunteer can do so more easily if the 'family' part of Cub Scouting is respected. Not every aspect of the program must include siblings, but if they can be accommodated, I have found no harm in doing so. If one volunteer watching the children of 6 volunteers allows a program to take place, I see no harm in that either.

jblake, I don't understand your position. The volunteers are not expecting or requiring the camps to provide day care. The camps are providing day care for siblings to allow more parents to volunteer, to increase the already limited pool of potential volunteers. My email Inbox has been full of pleas for day and twilight camp volunteers in the last month or so. Staffing day/twilight camp is a problem.

When my husband started volunteering with the pack and for camps, etc., with our oldest son, our younger sons were home with me. When more volunteers were needed, I stepped up but my youngest son came along. It was simply not possible financially for both of us to serve as volunteers if we had to pay for day care.

Maybe it is a local culture thing? I know that when I was young, my mother ran the kid's group for our GS day camp, that was some 30 years ago. I don't know of a day/twilight camp in my area that doesn't run some version of a Tot Lot. It's covered as part of National Camp Director training so it must be pretty common.

It's been a while since I was a DL, but one must always beg the question of all these "tots" hanging around CS camp. What insurance does not have to cover any injuries sustained by non-registered participants? Wouldn't it be better served to have these "tots" involved in day-care where there's appropriate facilities to handle their needs?

 

Now I don't want to be perceived as a hard-nosed Grinch, but one would think that the resources drawn away from the BSA program to accommodate non-BSA people would not be a good thing. Next thing one will need a "program" to handle all the helicopter parents that want to tag along... Oh, never mind, that's "Family Camp". I don't know about boys today, but when I went off on a scouting adventure, I did not want my younger brothers tagging along and neither did I want my parents anywhere nearby.

 

By the way, will all these future CS "tots" expect TV and cartoons all day long when they finally reach the age of Cubbing? I'm thinking there's a lot going on here that sets some serious problems down the road for the program.

My understanding of Tot Lot, at least in my council, is that it is covered under insurance as part of the camp. I asked this question of both the Camp Director and my DE. My Tot Lot had the female children and young sons of the Camp Director, Program Director, Camp Nurse, Crafts Director, and 5-6 den leaders each day. I don't think all of those leaders would be able to volunteer if they had to pay for 'regular' day care so they could volunteer for Cub Day Camp. I know I would not. Scouts who really want to get away can do Resident Camp, which costs about 30% more for half the time and has paid staff rather than relying solely on volunteers.

I'm not against movies and electronics, but I prefer to keep an outdoor program as an outdoor program. I can see that they could be valuable in some circumstances, especially in relentless bad weather.

So what is the clearest, most ethical and legal way for a scout to pay for his expenses? I've not been a fan of ISAs for several reasons, and now I see that group fundraising is not without pitfalls. Not all parents can afford to pay all the expenses out of pocket, and not all scouts can earn enough money to do so themselves. I am especially thinking of the 11.5yo scouts who just crossed over...too young to mow lawns or deliver papers around here, and few other jobs available.

Boxes are also good for stacking into tall towers or making little hideouts. When I did Tot Lot we also painted rocks, made nature bracelets, painted sticks to look like snakes, made rain paintings (paint on stiff paper, put in rain and see what happens), strung pony beads on ribbons and cords for bracelets, colored a LOT on paper with crayons and on the sidewalks with chalk. Things I had planned but didn't finish were God's eye wrappings with sticks and yarn or branch weavings. I also structured the day so we alternated quiet activities with active time, began every day with a gathering activity, brought sheets to spread under shady trees for 'nap' time or reading time and basically ran it like a long den meeting. For waiting activities, like when we were suppose to join the scouts to do the special activity of the day, I'd bring along Uno cards and fingernail polish. Everyone had very colorful nails by the end of camp. We also put together a little song with hand motions for Parent's night, the older kids especially liked doing that.

Good luck! I've done day camp stations, been a den walker and last year was the year I did Tot Lot. It was by far the most exhausting job. It was not a priority for the camp director, which is not a surprise, and I think it could be changed to be a better experience for the Tots and the volunteers. I gave some feedback, but from what I understand it was pretty much the same this year.

We do two separate ceremonies. Arrow of Light is a Cub Scout ceremony and is attended by the entire pack. We hold it a few weeks in advance of the scouts leaving to join the troop. I like this because it allows the scouts who earn the highest award in Cub Scouting to actually wear the highest award in Cub Scouting while part of the Cub Scout program. Separating the ceremonies also allows AOL to be awarded as it is earned, as good scouting methods intend. And finally, it allows the scouts to shine as role models for the pack. Crossover/Bridging is a Boy Scout ceremony and only the scouts joining that particular troop attend, thus eliminating the awkwardness you've run into. Our associated troop welcomes the new scouts at their spring court of honor. Prior to separating the two ceremonies, the scouts who were not moving to the troop simply sat down in the audience during that portion of the program.

I think some of the problems you've run into are unique to the Bear year, 92hatchattack. Bear scouts do a lot of work and the program doesn't have a lot of built-in opportunities to be recognized at pack meetings until rank is earned. We don't use the Progress Towards Rank totem either. It doesn't seem to interest the scouts and it is kind of a pain to keep the beads on and to take the big plastic thing on and off for laundering. We've worked on the Bear program to include some belt loops and participation patches.

In our pack, we award rank patches and every other award as they are earned, with recognition at the next pack meeting. Right or wrong, we've gone from treating the Blue and Gold Banquet as the pinnacle of the scouting year to more of a recurring pack meeting theme. It's a goal for completing ranks, but it's not a big deal if a boy or den isn't ready by B&G. We've also moved B&G to later in the spring so we can have a more relaxed schedule overall. It took the pack leadership a few years to make the change, largely waiting until some of the leaders who loved B&G to move on to Boy Scouts to complete the transition.

In our pack, we also follow the lead of National/Council or whomever it is that decided that all cubs advance to the next rank on June 1. So our scouts can work toward their rank at resident camp and day camps. Many do. If a den has several new scouts in the fall, however, the den ends up repeating those activities or similar to keep everyone moving along. I think the Webelos rank is the best designed program as far as boys working as individuals and as a den for rank advancement, it will likely be much less frustrating to you next year, 92hatchattack.

'SM I' was actually meant to read 'as SM, I' or what Basmentdweller likes to do as Scoutmaster rather than a new type of Scoutmaster, I think. In this font, the number one and the pronoun 'i' and the lowercase 'L' look identical.

We've started providing water rather than soda or drink pouches, that was an easy switch. We hand out graham crackers or granola bars instead of cookies and spend a little more for presliced apples or clementines at pack meetings. Camping meals include lots of fruits and vegetables in the form of foil dinners, tacos or just veggies and dip. If we have pizza, we have salads too. We serve hot dogs as campfire snacks rather than a meal. We always have fresh fruit available while camping. We may serve chips, but we don't buy a lot and we don't have them around all the time.

We've decided as leaders that we will no longer serve food that everyone will eat but to focus on food that the majority of us want to eat, and that means healthier choices. Good for you and your unit in chosing to do the same, DigitalScout.

It's a start. I hope National comes through with this and more. I've wondered about BSA employees and how they might be affected.

I like zip-offs in general, but I think that the Cub Scout version could be better designed. The shirts, too, there is a large sizing gap between small and medium in the draft.

My sons are in the habit of putting the bottoms of their switchbacks in their pockets when they zip them off. That makes it easy to match them up again for laundering.

Why register an adult under a different function? It would make far more sense for the registrar kick the application back for correction. I've had apps returned for much more minor issues. It's a lost opportunity to educate the unit and get the registration right.

My unit is in our second year of ScoutManage. I'm no a fan. The way it is organized isn't intuitive, it is missing features that would make it MUCH easier to use, and the support keeps changing. Right now it seems the best way to get questions answered is the FB page. Pretty lame for a paid service. The best features are the graphics and that parents can log in with Facebook. They don't seem to know what to do once they log in, though.

manderle, I haven't had a problem with two of the things you mentioned. I can set dates for advancements and set positions for adult leaders and scouts. Perhaps you've run into the problem I've found, the program isn't transparent.

We are considering switching over to Google sites and spreadsheets as a more straightforward way to manage unit communication and advancement tracking. At least then we wouldn't be paying for the frustration.

Our council doesn't take back partial cases or any product with 'chocolate,' and they charge 10% for restocking. They do have a take-back day scheduled after most popcorn forms have been collected. The council popcorn FB page is full of popcorn chairs looking to trade product so they don't have to take a hit on profits.

We are slowly pulling out of popcorn sales. Like Twocubdad said, the units take all the risk and the council and national take a good chunk of the profit. If the support from council extended beyond sales techniques, included good training on product tracking and using the TE website, and shared the losses like unsold product and bad checks, I'd feel better about supporting the popcorn program. As it is, I'm not so enthusiastic.

We used precut, point-down arrowhead shapes to make our own totem, and decorated them with leather stamps including names. Put enough holes (4 on one side for Tigers, 2 on the other for Wolf/Bear) you can use the same totem for 3 years. I like waxed hemp cord to string the beads. Even switching out the black plastic lace on the official badge for waxed hemp cord works better.

'fraternization the formation of peer-based, social relationships between adult and youth members is not permitted'

When I read this, it seems to cover relationships that begin when one member is an adult and one member is a youth. The couple in question began their relationship as equals, as youth. The relationship is established. It is clearly not a relationship of an adult preying on a youth,of an older male taking advantage of a younger female, it doesn't have the power differential that raises alarm bells. My personal litmus test - I would not be concerned for my daughter unless I already had reservations about the relationship.

The sticky issue is going to be camp staff next summer, IMO. Hard to tell how that is going to go down. That might be the reason to pull in the SE now for his interpretation.