kari_cardi

jblake47 said 'The money kids spend on blue jeans is very comparable to scout pants, but no one wants them. A durable shirt from any good sporting goods store is going to cost pretty much what a new uniform shirt costs. Well the patches can be taken off and put on a new shirt, the belt doesn't wear out nor do the socks very often. Necker, hat, all don't need replacing unless lost.'

Respectfully, there is a lot of privilege in that statement. Some kids spend $40 on blue jeans. Mine don't, nor do the kids of most of my friends. Some kids spend $25-$35 on a single shirt. Mine don't, nor do the kids of most of my friends. We are an average middle class family. Most of the shirts my kids own cost less than $10, most of their jeans and pants cost less than $12, and that is for new clothing. Even their clothes for church and special events cost less than their scout uniforms. Their scout uniforms are, literally, the most expensive clothing they own. Scout uniforms are also the most difficult for me to find at a discount or used. Every single member of my family is in BSA. That's SIX uniforms to buy and maintain. So yes, I would prefer it if uniforms didn't come back from a camp out ripped and torn, no matter how much character and experience it adds to a shirt. I don't have the budget for it.

This discussion doesn't even consider that the scout shirt is the last kind of shirt most boys would chose for outdoor adventures if they could chose whatever they wanted. I bet regular cotton t-shirts would be first, with t-shirts made of some sort of wicking technical fabric second. My sons consider button-front shirts to be 'dressed up' and for them, scout uniform shirts fall in the same category. I suspect that is the other reason why parents and boys like to save uniforms for 'good'. Current uniforms don't represent current trends in everyday clothing. The pants do, but there isn't anything really special about scout pants. They look like a thousand other brands of cargo pants and we own lots. Not so much the shirts with buttons.

Our pack keeps going back and forth on pack t-shirts. Parents like them because they keep the official uniform shirt/pants nice. Uniforms are the most expensive clothing many of our boys own. It's tough to watch a boy use paint wearing a $30 shirt. OTOH, when we've had pack t-shirts, the scouts seem to wear them for everything, despite instructions to wear uniforms to meetings and t-shirts for outdoor activities or as requested. We handed out t-shirts this year, and I am pretty sure that there are boys who don't have official shirts since they are new and hey, why buy a shirt when they can wear a free t-shirt?

I do like the uniform. I like the unity, I like seeing ranks earned and what other awards a scout may have. I like that the uniform says 'I am a Cub Scout'.

If I were to recommend a pack policy, I would set a uniform requirement for the official shirt. I would not hand out t-shirts. I would encourage den leaders to let parents know when non-uniform shirts are appropriate and expected for an activity. This seems to lead to the least amount of confusion.

Kosher? Probably not. Practical and effective? Yes. If I had continued with my Tiger den, we would have made our own again. Instead the current den leader hasn't used the immediate recognition at all, nor has the Bear leader because they dislike the plastic as much as I do. So I figure something that works is better than not doing it at all.

I am not uniform police at all though. I am a stickler for rank badges being earned and worn properly, but immediate recognition totems feel more like belt loops or such to me.

blw2, I don't like the immediate recognition totems either. We made Tiger versions last year from leather, using pre-cut shapes in an arrow point design that we stamped and punched with holes for the strings. I loved that my Tigers could make them with a little help.

I think it sounds like you have several challenges ahead of you. First is helping the parents be Tiger Cub partners and not just chauffeurs who stay in the room. Ideally, this expectation would have been set at recruitment. It doesn't sound like that is the case here. So now you need to set expectations. I agree with the others, the friendly but direct approach is best. I am going to guess that your pack is active during the school year and takes a slower approach in the summer. I'd chose a couple of the most likely parents and give them specific assignments to run meetings in the next few months. Build on that relationship and experience to chose an assistant den leader for the Wolf year.

Second, I think your pack leadership is a bit disorganized and could use some help. I would be the friendly but persistent bug for the information you need. Ask the secretary or the committee chair for the meeting notes from the meeting you missed. Ask the Cubmaster to fill you in on upcoming pack activities. Ask the committee chair when the next leaders meeting is and if it is a regular thing. If you ask, it will remind the CC to send out emails before the next meeting, and the secretary will get those notes typed up and distributed because someone might actually read them. Or not, because maybe the pack leaders are overstretched and in survival mode and well, then you have other issues to consider.

A good place to find camaraderie and support is your district roundtable. Both experienced and newbie scouters attend, a wide variety of useful topics are covered, and you will learn so much about Cub Scouts and BSA that you will find useful as you and your twins continue in scouting.

One last note regarding parent and scout participation. Cub Scouts is a volunteer organization with voluntary participation. It is very common to have parents and scouts with varied degrees of commitment and participation. I think that is ok, as long as the boys are having fun and the parents appreciate the experiences we give their sons. When I plan an event, any event, I expect that not everyone will participate. Sometimes I can ask for commitment ahead of time, sometimes I can estimate and predict who will attend and sometimes my boys and I pick up the slack. The way I see it, my sons do more in scouting than most, but they get more from scouting than most. WIN!

Best of luck!

Hey, if you are a woman, the assessment moves directly to #3. Impossible to be a BSA Eagle scout, and no amount of GSUSA experience as a youth counts. So your scenario really only applies to male scouters, with a small nod to the possibility of Venturing females for #1.

My son's Family Life counselor was male. He was also the scoutmaster and the MB was done as a class during troop meetings, but that is a whole other issue! I agree with AKdenldr, it is one of the MBs that women would feel comfortable counseling even if they cannot contribute to scouting in other areas.

moosetracker, there is no Cub Scout rank that requires a library card. That is one requirement that can be chosen for a total of 7 out of 16 requirements for the Webelos Communicator activity pin. Hardly a limiting requirement. But I do see your point about family involvement or rather lack thereof and how that can roadblock advancements.

We don't have pack meetings in June, July and August, but we do have pack-wide activities including resident camp and twilight camp. Special events like Pinewood and B&G are the pack meetings for that month. Pinewood is held on our regular meeting night. B&G might be our regular meeting night, or it might be on a Saturday. Depends on the schedule and what the leadership decides.

We do a casual, fun leader's meeting in June or July. We do a cookout and the whole family is invited. We put together the general calendar through the next summer at this time, and rough out a general direction for the pack. Usually the CC has already figured out much of the calendar scheduling around holidays and the local school calendar. We have certain events that happen at the same time every year, and try to match up those events with themes and the 12 core values. If 'Responsibility' works better in October than November, for example, I have no problem moving it.

During the school year, we use our monthly leadership meeting to work 2-3 months out, tweaking the calendar as needed. And the calendar does a scheduled re-vamp in February for the second half of the school year, and we re-distribute the calendar to the pack families.

Have you tried laying it all out for him? 'These are my expectations of your behavior, these are the things we will be able to do if everyone cooperates and works together, our goal is to have fun and be good scouts and if you don't have the same goal, then you are welcome to sit to the side and watch.'

The Buff headgear does look interesting. I wonder if a flat seam would be a problem. With a seam I could copy the concept in about 5 minutes at home.

Bart, it comes in various fabrics including wool, which should meet your warmth requirement. And one style-idea comes down over the ears.

I think the cotton/polyester poplin looks better, it has more shape and takes a press better. The nylon supplex feels better to me, and breathes better too. It doesn't wrinkle but it doesn't hold a crease either, since creases are really intentional wrinkles that makes sense to me. I'd probably chose the nylon supplex for camp.

I don't value one scouter over another based on the program they work with, but I've been at the receiving end of this prejudice. I think it stems from the general view of Cub Scouts as a feeder organization for Boy Scouts. If one program is the warm-up act to the other program as the main event, I can see why Boy Scout leaders hold themselves in higher honor. Also, BS leaders generally have more stuff on their shirts, which obviously means they are better leaders. Right? RIGHT?

Thankfully most scouters I've met are not like this.

Basement, it wasn't like that when we started with ScoutManage last fall. I'd like to talk to the owner about the situation before we switch to another provider, but I agree, I'm not comfortable with the current situation.

camilan42, I appreciate your viewpoint as well whether or not I agree with it. However, I do want to point out that scouters have reasons other than cost for not wearing uniform pants, perfectly valid reasons, like lack of pants that fit for function.

"The use of the uniform creates a sense of camaraderie, a sense of equality and a sense of pride by way of public expression of the badging they have earned and insignia to which they belong."

And these goals can be met by wearing the uniform shirt without the uniform pants, taking the argument right back around to the OP.

My family has enjoyed riding in an annual bike tour of 3000 cyclists. We had camaraderie, equality and pride based on participation wristband. That feeling was based far more on what we did together than what we wore to do it.

Thanks! I'd really prefer to contact them directly than through FB.

Does anyone have direct contact information for Lee or even a general email for Scoutmanage? Thanks!

My understanding is that the jeans were for casual wear, not for uniforms. I looked at them when they first came out, they were reasonably priced for jeans. They didn't fit my two boys though, one is skinny and one is husky. Otherwise I'd snap them up at $5/pair!

Does the registration process have any sort of quality control? If an app for a 9yo 6th grader is submitted for a Boy Scout troop, will the system spit it back out or accept it, I wonder. Who wants to volunteer to try it?

SaintCad, thanks for your response. I did figure it out, everyone met training expectations, we are good!

I've been looking for a pair of pants similar to the uniform pants to wear. I'd love a skirt too. I'm also in the process of taking apart and resewing a uniform shirt to fit me. I'm short and busty and BSA uniforms don't fit me at all. I've tried the last few iterations of female and male uniforms. I have a similar issue with other tailored clothing and generally make my own or stick to styles and clothing lines that I know will work. I'd sew my own uniform if I could find similar fabric, I wish it was an option.

I do have a pair of switchbacks, too, that don't fit. The amount of topstitching alone makes the idea of alterations a daunting one. The changes I need wouldn't work anyway with all the pockets, etc. I really should just donate them.

Initially, I was going to refer you to the online scout shop at scoutstuff.org. When my local scout shop runs out of participation patches, I find that I can often find the patches I need at the online store. I can't find a 2012 Scout Sunday patch in the catalog right now either, just a discontinued 2011 version. And in my experience, that means that the local shop won't be getting any stock soon.

My other favorite source for participation patches is thepatchplace.com. There is a wide selection of patches and service has been great. The patch size is a little smaller, the design isn't as elaborate and there is no BSA motif anywhere, but the price is friendly.

I also like the look of the participation patches at Patch Connection (www.patchcon.com) but I have no experience with this vendor.

There is also PatchSales.com. I have ordered from this site and I was not impressed with the quality of the patches.(This message has been edited by sasha)

This is why we keep the two ceremonies separate. It's not awkward if AOL and crossover are held at two different times. We celebrate AOL first with the pack. Then we have crossover with the troop(s) though everyone has chosen the same troop for the last 5 years or so. This approach has the added advantage that scouts who earn AOL actually get to experience the highest award in Cub Scouting for a week or two as Cub Scouts rather than immediately becoming Boy Scouts.

So sorry for your loss, Scoutfish. I hope you find the song.