John-in-KC

Why did you run for SPL???

You're 17, and you report your Eagle in hand. The Scout who needs SPL the most is someone working towards Eagle. There are also plenty of 13, 14 and 15 year olds who'd like their chance at the opportunity. You holding the position holds them back!

Scouting offers a plethora of young adult leadership opportunities to you. Consider moving up from LEC to Section and Regional duties. Consider being on the planning committee for the 2004 NOAC. If you want to stay active in your Troop, now is a good time to become JASM ... you'll be a transitional Scouter within a year no matter what.

The unit sites at both our council camps have 3 standard and 1 handicap seat stalls over a concrete pit. 2 urinals are also part of the mix. There is a gang sink with cold water on the outside.

Showers are 100-500 yards away at the pool.

Ranger tells me the latrine plan come direct from the national architect's office.

John

OGE,

Must be nice to be at a long term camp that still uses jamboree feeding method (ie, units draw bulk rations and cook in camp).

Our Council has had dining halls for 50 years....

That said, for the year-round program, you are certainly right!

John

Leadership essentials for the JASM. (ie give a transitional youth an exposure to NLE: SM specific, perhaps including the outdoor leader instruction).

Why? We have an older youth/transitional adult position, and if you look at the unit JLT training package, the JASM is sorta out in left field.

Ideally, he's had unit JLT and Brownsea, and maybe even NJLTC at PTC...

AK:

Division Artillery or the brigade?

Ken,

Not knowing the situation of your SPL (whether he's star, life, or eagle) ... you always have the tools of last resort:

- Scout Spirit and certifying his office for advancement ... or certifying his leadership if he's Eagle and seeking palms. Those are YOUR call. The advancement chair loads Troopmaster with info you give him. If you say "X didn't step up to the plate" as SPL, the time doesn't count.

I'd be talking with (in order) the boys parents, the CC, and the COR about the quality of your SPL's leadership. There may be personal issues you don't know about yet. There may also be a case of low standards, low expectations.

Has your SPL been to unit JLT or Brownsea? It might be worth encouraging him for one or more of these.

If you have a JASM, he might be a useful peer for some guidance to the young man.

A tactic a SM friend I know used ... SPL didn't show up at PLC before campout, didn't show up at campout. ASPL followed SPLs lead. SM put onus of coordination and leadership on most mature PL in the field. Next PLC, the patrol leaders asked "how do we get rid of a worthless SPL?" Shortly the troop had a recall election.

Scouts aren't dumb. SPL was out of office.

Thoughts. Take them for whatever they are worth.

Post deleted. JWP(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

I remember both turning the collar of my long sleeve shirt down and having a collarless short sleeve shirt.

The troops' Moms made our neckechiefs, they were about 20% smaller than the BSA Supply Division ones.

My son and his troop IIRC wears theirs under their collars.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

KS: Like you, my service to Uncle took me out of the donor pool. Babenhausen and Frankfurt, 1983-7. It's a %%%%%.

Pdunbar: Pound sand. I like sirloin!

Why don't we make it real simple:

The Arrow of Light is one of three program elements a youth in Boy Scouting can carry over to adult life as a Scouter, viz:

Arrow of Light

Religious Award (purple knot)

Eagle

BTW, does anyone know if any of the Venturing awards will carry over yet?

Acco,

It may not be a big pushbutton, but it's my pushbutton . There's a reason it gets pushed. The reason is too long to go into here.

Trust me, you're not the reason

Pardon me but...

Isn't wearing a patrol patch on the adult field uniform come under the SPIRIT, if not the letter of:

"Note: Adults do not wear boys badges of rank."

Source: Adult uniform inspection worksheet, #34284

http://www.scoutstuff.org/misc/isheets/34284.pdf

(meaning ... we're Scouters to support the youth in their program, not to relive our own youth)

I recognize the merits of using Patrol Method at New Leader Essentials Outdoor Skill Training as well as Wood Badge. Now, would someone point me to it in either SM or Committee guides? I've read through both, and I don't see it in context of adults.

TIA.

Eagle 54...

Understand something, very clearly, please.

The religious awards programs (all of them) are INDEPENDENT OF the Boy Scouts of America:

- PRAY (Programs of Religious Activities for Youth) is just one of them. It happens to be the one I'm most familiar with, thanks to being a counselor in its program, and having attended the "Scouting and the Churchs' Ministry" workshop at PTC, learning directly from Mark and Debra Hazelwood.

- PRAY supports BSA, GSUSA and Camp Fire religious awards programs (among other youth-serving organizations).

- PRAY (Debra Hazelwood) happens to write the Protestant Christian "God and Country" series.

-- Each Protestant denomination choosing to accept PRAY's curricula does it through their youth services and/or church doctrine offices.

- PRAY manages several other programs (print/distribute curricula, stock for resale medals, patches, etc)

- Other churches and agencies maintain their own programs. A sampling includes:

Armenian Apostolic Church of America (Western Prelacy)

Armenian Church of America (Eastern Diocese)

Baha'i

LDS

Salvation Army

and yes, Unitarian Universalists, to wit:

http://www.uua.org/re/scouts.html

Religious education is a matter of faith. In the PRAY curriculum series, the parents and the counselor are urged to visit with the youths' Pastor. Purpose of this is to ensure the youth receive education within the limits of their doctrinal set.

I HAVE had Pastors give clearance for youth I counseled to go "outside the tradition." At least one of these youth was already contemplating the Holy Office as his vocation. That particular young man had already earned his age-appropriate religious award in his faith.

I'm going to point you to two sites.

BSA resource site: http://www.scouting.org/awards/religious/awards/index.html

PRAY's resource site:

http://www.praypub.org/recognitions/selectfaith.asp(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

OGE,

It's NOT a moot point, yet. The young man described the practice current in his unit. We here don't know how long this practice has been going on.

SPL_15 SHOULD visit with his SM and CC and admit error. That's going to take no small amount of moral courage. I hope he does it.

In the meantime, we've pointed him down a trail of how he can raise the STANDARDS of the older youth. You will recall he described that youth leadership signs off on the individual tasks to rank.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

F O G...

Don't hold me on this; I spent my week at 6,600 feet (PTC) ...

But I think the fire conditions were such there was no smoking in the backcountry last year. Certainly one of the things the guides did at shakedown was confiscate all matches and lighters from the Mountain Trek crews.

If someone else knows otherwise I will gladly post an "I goofed" followup...

John

Key point 1: Base camp is 6,600 feet above MSL. Air is thinner than many of us live with, available O2 is less.

Key point 2: Some elevations in the field:

Mount Baldy is 12,441

Mount Phillips is 11711

The Tooth of Time is 9003

French Henry Camp is 9,680

Air is even thinner, and available O2 is even less at these altitudes.

There is one other point.

In addition to the height/weight standards, there is also an upper limit weight standard of 295 lbs, based on the capability of the rescue gear now available.

John

who went to PTC and sent his son on the Mountain Trek last year

NJ,

I wasn't online last night. Sorry for the delay in replying.

At this point after the Dale decision, I would hope that the National professional staff has trained the various Council Executives. In turn, I hope the Councils have trained both their professionals and the commissioner staff.

My thoughts. Blessed Easter.

John

KS...

I think you and I once fired into the same impact area!!!

I wish one of the two of us could facilitate this SPL an After-Action Review...

John(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

http://www.scouting.org/media/press/020206/resolution.html

As I said, I suspect it's actually in hardcopy, in Irving, in the minutes of a National Council meeting held on or about Feb 6, 2002.

John

NJ,

I rather suspect, if you were to travel to Irving and inspect the minutes of the National Council meeting on February 6, 2002, this resolution will be in them...

John

Welcome to the joy of making judgment calls and having gut-checks.

I think the Scouting expectation is a Scout should take about a year to get from "first meeting" to First Class. This Tenderfoot is advancing a little early, but not too much so.

Use this Scouts' advancement to your advantage as the youth leader of the Troop: Gather the PLC along with the older youth leaders (JASM and Instructors), and ask for SM for a seminar PLC on how to set and enforce standards. You may even want to make a leaders campout/retreat out of this, so that everyone has "their head in the game."

***The onus of evaluating task performance TO THE STANDARD is at least as much on the the teacher/evaluator as it is on the student.***

Now, as to the Tenderfoot...

Ask him "open-ended" questions. Below are examples. Target the questions to the skill or knowledge you believe needs strengthening:

"How do you apply the fourth point of the Scout Law (friendly) in your troop life and family life?"

"What to you goes into "mentally awake?"

"How difficult was your swim?" FOLLOWUP: How much work is it going to take you to be ready for your First Class swim test when we get to camp?"

"What did you make for your camp breakfast?" FOLLOWUP "How would you improve on what you did the next time you make a field breakfast?"

"What position of responsibility in the troop appeals to you and why?"

FOLLOWUP "If I ask the SM to assign you that position next week, what do you think you would need to learn through training to be able to do the job right?"

Remember: You and your brother leaders have had your opportunity to test skills!! Your Scoutmaster has declared this Tenderfoot ready for advancement. The goal is NOT to put a "gotcha" on the young man ... it's to help you assess his strengths and weaknesses so you can train him on First Class skills.

I hope all this helps.

John

who was in your shoes more years ago than I care to remember...(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Why the duck?

http://www.tvparty.com/video/grouchointro.ram

A $100 duck isn't a bad thing even now! Heck, that almost pays for half of Scout Camp...

This is what 40 and 50 somethings watched ...

My brother's pet peeve: McHale's Navy was on during Troop 320's meeting.

My pet peeve: Laugh-in was on during Troop 110's meeting.

John

(showing my age)(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

What say we kill this horse now, so everyone can beat it for a few days.

Please go read this page in the BSA national domain:

http://www.scouting.org/identity/index.html(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Mr Venture,

You DO NOT want to know. F O G's "less polite" is on the mild side. The names are far beyond the boundaries of polite society conversation.

John

contemplating retirement from the Armed Forces after 24 years active and reserve service.

PS: When I was a Scout, I used my dad's patrol cap (baseball cap with woolen ear flaps) for camp and backpacking. Mother Army brought it back with battle dress in 1980. It, along with the boonie hat, are what I still use even now.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Curt,

Yes, we are ... but it was a good chance to get paid political advertising in for both PRAY and the Scouting in the Churchs' Ministry workshop.

Please forgive my strident tone. I can get just a tad passionate on this. Unfortunately, this board only lets us edit our last post, so it seems. Sorry, I'd edit back some of the stridency if I could.

Regarding your private message, "And also with you."

John(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)