JoeBob

Calico,

Thank you very much for the rational discussion. I don't know why I would have expected anything less from a Scouter.

1- 'Where's Social Security in the constitution?'

"How about "Provide for the General Welfare"."

Article 1 Section 8 enumerates Congress' power to collect taxes to "provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States."

I read that as the welfare of the country. When read in context with 'common Defence and general Welfare' it's easy to see that the framers meant for this to apply to nationwide projects such as the CDC, TVA, and interstate highways. When our elected representatives perverted that phrase to mean that the federal government had any responsibility for INDIVIDUALS in the United States, they popped the lid off the worm can that began the erosion of individual responsibility.

Social security was the camel's nose. Medicare, welfare, and food stamps followed as politicians pandered to voters. I admit that earlier motives were probably altruistic, but lately I can only see self-perpetuating power lust in politicians.

The Tenth Amendment is where the Framers specifically limited the power of the feds to meddle.

Calico, I fear that the profit motive which has historically urged our citizens to produce the excellence that has made the United States great; is being dissolved by the 'Cradle to Grave' mentality coming out of Washington. To hardworking risk-takers, the federal motivation of 2009 is to move somewhere else so that you can keep some of the fruit of your labors.

An independent Texas would be convenient.

Our current rate of spending is unsustainable. The Fed is depending on China to buy our debt, and we're becoming a credit risk, so China is charging us a higher rate. (Unintended benefit: China is less likely to go to war against someone who owes them so much money.) What happens when the economy spirals down, the projected revenues crash, and the US goes bankrupt? The world economy will also crash. The drop to 3rd world status will affect US citizens the most, because we have the longest fall to become agrarian. Food will the isuue.

Sorry, I wax survivalist.

If we can resurrect the concept of indivdual responsibility, without hitting bottom first, our childrens lives will be much better.

I appreciate the opportunity to rant.

Thanks,

JoeBob

I hate the electronic intrusions into our lives. My kids have be pried off their learning games in the back of the car to look out the window and count cows.

But I'm also a hypocrite.

I felt much better when my family was tent camping over break, because I could watch the thunderstorms approaching Huntsville at 3am on radar, coutesy of my Blackberry. The really heavy stuff split around us, so the kids stayed snug and warm in our tent. Without the Blackberry, we'd have been hunkered down in the concrete block bath-house, enjoying the aroma.

Calico,

How did you make the jump from 'Personal responsibility' to Abortion? As a pro-choice independent with conservative leanings, I think that any Govt interference in what is essentially a women's health care issue is wrong. I don't want to debate abortion on this forum. I'll probably get banned for life if I write what I really think on that issue.

How about the effect that these programs have on personal responsibility:

1- Social Security - Where's that in the constitution? http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/ba215.pdf

2- Welfare - Churches and private charity do it better locally.

3- Food Stamps - Why work?

4- Socialized medicine - Hasn't worked well anywhere else, so we need it here. Pass me a cigarette and a BigMac. The ER has to take me.

5- The War on Drugs - Talk about a waste of resources. Legalize drugs and tax drug use for rehab programs. Can't rehab? Die.

6- Earned Income Tax Credit - Here, take my money.

7- Gotta beachfront/riverside home? Don't worry about hurricanes or floods, the feds will rebuild you.

8- Bailout my Bank or pay my mortgage?

Sorry. I rant. (The drool on my keyboard alerted me.)

JoeBob's rule for government:

Government should ONLY do

what ONLY government can do.

That's enough for them to FUBAR.

"Ed, name a taxpayer-supported program that excludes people based on their religious views. "

Would taxpayer provided footbaths for Muslim cab drivers in public airports qualify?

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/04/indy-airport-begins-installation-of.html

https://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?p=283535

How about Muslim only hours at the public pool to accomodate women in burkas? http://www.timesrecordnews.com/news/2009/jan/10/swimming-in-modesty-muslim-women-head-to-pool/

GRRRRR!

Talk about a guy who killed a beret: http://www.army.mil/features/beret/beret.htm

Gen. Eric Shinseki took the black beret away from the 75th Infantry Rangers, and gave it to the whole US Army; as if bestowing elite headgear made all the legs better soldiers. Now the Rangers have switched to wearing a light tan beret. Last I heard, the Army berets were being made in China.

I second WVCubDad's instuctions on proper wear and care. The only thing I can add is that berets don't suffer too much from being rolled up and stuffed in a pants cargo pocket.

Gern,

I've voted for Libertarians on the local level. But they lost my support when their presidential candidate wouldn't support defending the country.

SA, a third party wouldn't have to be very large to have a major impact. If a 3rd party could get 10% to 15% in both houses, they could pick and choose the legislation that passsed by working with either of the existing parties.

I've grown weary of conservative mouth pieces saying "You're either 100% with us, or you're with the Democrats." If the Republicans interpret their current dimished status as a call to move farther right, they'll probably become even more marginalized and smaller.

There is hope.

You can't let your Scouts believe that this type of behaviour is acceptable.

Beavah,

I admire you even keeled approach and reconciliatory tone. Humor puts a softer edge on sharp points, and enables the target of your arguments to at least consider your shot. I just can't do it, anymore.

Was Arlen Specter a 'Real Republican'? I'm not. I'm not a Republican, period. I don't think that any political entity should try to legislate morality. And when you use your relegion as the basis for your laws, don't you exempt everyone not of your relegion from that justification, and thereby those laws?

The only reason that I wind up voting with the Republicans is that I still believe strongly in the principles I learned as a scout: individual resposibility and self-reliance. Both of which are the opposite of what the current crop of Democrats are using to perpetuate their own personal power. Zell Miller, I miss you!

Our republic is sorely in need of a third party. Blue dog Democrats and socially liberal Republicans need a home, along with all the thoughtful independents who are disgusted with all the partisan games being played by both sides.

Hopefully we can solve our national problems without states having to secede in order to get the 10th amendment enforced. I'm tired of holding my nose to vote.

I appreciate this oportunity to release some steam.

See Y'all,

JoeBob

Pot: "Kettle, you are black!"

If it gets bad enough for Texas to actually secede, I imagine a few other Red states will be ready to follow suit. If Texas remains the only state to secede, their population will probably be doubled by an influx of other disenchanted conservatives and overtaxed companies.

New Zealand is just too far away for me to transport my trucks, and I'm not sure they'd let me bring my guns.

Scouting will be fine. We are prepared, right?

On the bright side, maybe this administration will give California back to Mexico. We need to apologize for taking CA from MX, and half the state already speaks Spanish.

For me, Tap-Out was worse than Ordeal. My shoulder hurt for a few hours. Do they still break the arrow on you?

The solitude part of Ordeal was refreshing and quiet.

If you have enough scouting qualities in you to win election from your troop, Ordeal merely gives you an opportunity to practice those qualities and grow more comfortable with yourself. Anticipation is justified, worry is wasted.

;^)

The two-deep leadership rule is being used as a foil for the adults wanting to tag along.

1- What are they going to do if there is a second injury farther down the trail? Then you'd have the first 2 adults and 1 injured scout gone. Are they going to send the remaining two adults out with the second injury and leave the 4 healthy scouts solo, or are they going to leave 1 adult with 4 scouts and send a solo adult and the second injured scout out in violation of 2 deep? Using this twisted logic, you'd have to have two adults for every scout in case they all get injured. (On second thought, you might not want bring this one up. Your group might see a need to ADD 2 adults...)

2- I don't think that an injured scout with single adult is an opportunity for adult misbehaviour. That type of predator will find easier targets.

3- Sometimes we have to overlook the rules and use our brains. If someone wants a confrontation about violating 2 deep in this scenario, it should be an easily won one-sided debate.

4- If your patrol insists on hovering, have one adult walk point, a few hundred yards in front of the boys to handle any unforeseen challenges; and one adult walk sweep, 100 yards behind, to cover the stragglers. The boys can then enjoy their own interactions while encased in a cocoon of adult 'safety'.

You did post this as a vent, right Lisabob? When I was scouting, we took our first 10 milers with the ASM (Vigil name: Hiker). The SM would drop us off and wait for us at the end. Afer the first few hikes, we were on our own. Granted this was on the well-marked Appalachian Trail with litle chance of getting lost. I remember a pit-stop on the 20 miler for water and blister help, but we walked on our own. There were occasional games of grab-ass and ambush, but that's what made it FUN! The plethora of adults you describe would have stifled any leadership developement.

Good luck with it.

Yer Cuz,

JoeBob

That's not hot-glue on the badges? I've been heating plastic to the melting point with my wife's iron?

THAT stain isn't coming out.

So far everything is still attached. We wash the shirts inside out to keep the badges from snagging.

But now I'm paranoid to the point that I'll probably get out the needle and tack the corners down. All those arrow point corners...

Thanks. Really!

I slept in an Army surplus jungle hammock for 3-4 years on paddling trips. They aren't the lightest, but this was car camping with boats. I used two dowels to spread the intergrated rain fly, and just rolled the whole thing up. After I got the cords adjusted to length the first time, it was simple and fast to put up and strike.

To keep my back comfortable, I'd put a rolled up lifejacket under my knees.

From a security stand-point, I'm not sure I'd use one today. You're very exposed hanging in the air asleep. Un-zipping the mosquito net and ducking to roll out is neither swift not graceful.

For my EMT final exam the instructor, an ex-Navy Corpsman, went to the local butcher shop and got joints and waste bones. If you notify your butcher in advance, he can save you some longer pieces. Using old scrubs and plenty of dirt the instructor fashioned realistic compound fractures with lots of gore and tactile realism. The boys should love it!

Other sensory highlights were seared meat in a high-voltage wire burn(Scouts will have to remove the wire safely before rushing in to dress the wound.), and cow blood smeared on the resuscitation dummy.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think you'll appreciate the effectiveness of 'cutting corners' more if you look at it from a kid's perspective.

The first corner taken is a visual stain on a prized award. A verbal reprimand is easily put out of a kid's mind. Many times kids are threatened with discipline that isn't delivered. But he can always picture that cornerless card in his pocket. Each additional corner lost whittles down his chances of keeping that priviledge. If you take off bigger pieces of the card with each successive corner removed, that will really drive home the point that this priviledge is in danger. I'd have to say that any Cub with only one corner left on his tiny scrap of a Totin Chip should be very motivated to handle a knife safely.

That said, I don't think that re-training and restoring a second card is safe. Any scout that has violated basic safety procedures FOUR times is a danger to himself and to others, and has demonstrated that he does not yet have the maturity to handle a dangerous tool.

Imagine this scenario: After taking the course again and regaining his whitlin' chip, Chuck accidentally slashed Johnny's hand. Johnny's parents sue because of irreparable nerve damage. Imagine the lawyer's glee when he learns of a documented chain of evidence proving that we knew that Chuck could not be responsible with a knife... Just Damn.

BTW: In response to an above posted incident, a closed knife dropped out of a pocket is no more dangerous than a rock and shouldn't be a safety violation.

Only slightly on topic:

Way back in the Dark Ages, I was a member of Weapons Platoon, Alpha Co, 2nd BN, 75th Inf(Ranger). We were waiting to Ex-Fil an AO during Winter Warfare Training somewhere in Alaska, and were more bored than usual. One man, call him Goody, took out his K-Bar and began to throw it at a roll of snow-fencing situated in the middle of our squad. A K-Bar more closely resembles a hatchet than a throwing knife, and the springy roll of snow fence provided lots of recoil force as the knife rebounded in un-predictable directions making us all scramble to avoid injury. We were cussing and complaining, but secretly enjoying the entertainment, when a reporter for Stars and Stripes walked up. Goody hurled his knife at the roll of fencing and, for the first time in about 20 throws, it stuck solidly in the wood.

Reporter: "Wow! Can you do that every time?"

Goody, with a totally straight face: "Yes, sir. We have knife throwing specialists in every squad!"

The assembled Rangers were all deadpan and silent until the reporter walked off scribbling in his notebook. Then we all pummeled Goody.(This message has been edited by JoeBob)

I'm too new a returnee to know if this is BSA wide, but the hot-glue that is embedded in the patches for my son's Cub Scout uniform works better than I expected.

You just have to be sure it gets melted.

I iron the front first using a doubled kerchief to keep from singing the threads. That way I can monitor the placement. Once it's secure enough, I turn it over and heat the grits out of the backside.

a) You don't care if the inside threads are a little shiny.

b) The heat of the iron coming through the thin shirt fabric is closer to the glue than when you are ironning through the badge.

Don't use this technique for any temporary patches. That glue is not coming out of the threads.

The really smart parents (usually the SMs) get their kids a job WORKING at the scout camp.

Then they get six weeks of vacation! (I don't know where they went or what they did...)

Laundry? We don' need no stinking laundry!

The Sunday School teacher asked, 'Now, Johnny, tell me, do you say prayers before eating?'

'No Sir,' he replied, 'We don't have to. My Mom is a good cook!'

John in KC,

Same here to the mess hall at camp:

Leader:

Rub-a-dub-dub,

Thanks for the grub!

Campers:

Yay God!

GernBlansten

You are correct in that no Chinese oil platforms are currently in place:

"Cheney's office said in a statement to The Associated Press that the vice president had erred. "It is our understanding that, although Cuba has leased out exploration blocks 60 miles off the coast of southern Florida, which is closer than American firms are allowed to operate in that area, no Chinese firm is drilling there," according to the statement. [Associated Press State and Local Wire, 6/13/08]"

http://dccc.org/blog/archives/house_republicans_false_claim_about_chinese_oil_drilling_off_cuba_called_ur/

However the idea is certainly NOT 'fantastically fictional:

"The Chinese have forged a deal with Cuban leader Fidel Castro to explore and tap into massive oil reserves almost within sight of Key West, Florida."

"There are new reports out circulating that Chinese firms are planning to slant drill off the Cuban coast near the Florida Straits, tapping into U.S. oil reserves that are estimated at 4.6 billion to 9.3 billion barrels."

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/china_starts_oil_drilling.html

"The Chinese have already reopened an abandoned Russian oil refinery in Cuba."

It seems that some Chinese writing on Cuban oil platforms in the Florida Straits combined with a Chinese contract to renovate oil refineries and develope on-shore oil recources led many to assume that China was drilling off the Florida coast.

Googling "Chinese offshore oil drilling Cuba" yields 42,600 hits.

Ironically, the best discussion of both sides of the issue is in an Alaskan newspaper:

http://www.adn.com/oil/story/434045.html

Glen, your implication that I was out of touch with reality caused me to research this topic way more than I normally would have. What did I learn? I was a little out of touch with reality... But I have yet to reach science fiction levels of fantasy. Being a goal oriented person, I'll work on it!

:^)

JoeBob

Cub Scouts was a babysitting collective for our moms.

Our Boy Scout troop did yard maintenance for our church to earn money for camping gear, which we used a lot! Those single center pole teepee style tents sure went up fast. Just don't touch the sides in the rain...

I taught various subjects (Indian Lore, Pioneering, Paul Bunyan) at summer camp for four years. I learned how to rub the creases out of aluminum canoes after the whitewater rocks ate 'em, and parlayed my paddling experience into summer guiding jobs in college.

Partially due to scouting I was ahead of the class in the Army. Baden Powell would have been proud of my sneaky rear end in Ranger school.

My Eagle project was to blaze and improve a 10 mile trail in Pike County. Don't ask me where it is. Probably under a strip mall. The patch of planted pines where I did Ordeal is now underwater.

I really owe a huge thank-you to our assistant scout master, Carlton B. Colquitt, who quietly made sure that things got done; and took three of us to walk some of the Appalachian Trail in every state from Maine to Georgia. He would have been 104 this year, and still hiking.

GernBlansten,

Why will the price of oil go back up? Because the Dems won't allow us to drill in the US! Remember when oil prices were high before the election and the Dem controlled congress voted to allow more drilling? Then after the election they changed their minds? Alaska wants to to drill ANWAR. A chinese company is setting up to drill off of Florida out of Cuba. Who do you think would be more environmentally responsible?

The Dems plan to keep the cost of gas high, even by adding capricious gas taxes, so that they can manipulate the demand for unpopular compact cars.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/27/opinion/27sat1.html

You would think that they'd learned something from the last time they tried to manipulate the housing markets, by making banks give loans to people that couldn't afford them...

LisaBob,

I can't agree with you that the Democrat Party isn't pleased about the current state of affairs. Google 'Never waste a good crisis".

The Obama Bear Market: Never waste a good crisis

http://www.independent.org/blog/?p=1496

Financial Crisis - Courtesy of Barney Frank and Chris Dodd

Healthcare Crisis - Courtesy of ambulance chasing lawyers

Global Warming Crisis - Courtesy of Al Gore's Carbon Footprint ponzi scheme, despite ten years of cooling...

The Dems have gleefully leveraged 'crisis' into abosolutely monsterous spending: "Mr. Obama's $3.6 trillion budget blueprint, by his own admission, more than doubles the national debt held by the public, adding more to the debt than all previous presidents -- from George Washington to George W. Bush -- combined." http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123629969453946717.html

Tax and spend.

If I were in the financial advice business, I'd be setting up a program to help big companies and wealthy individuals move out of the US. Haliburton has already gone to Dubai.

BTW, LisaBob, are we related?

;^)

JoeBob