JoeBob

"What do you want?  An egg in your beer?"  was an expression used in deriding getting something for nothing.  I believe its origins are in WWII GIs using raw eggs to make the room temperature pub drafts more palatable to American tastes.  Any verification for the Brits on the board?

Stick around for 4 to 6 weeks and see how it shakes out.  That lets the boys know that you were willing and able, but that the decision was made elsewhere.  

If nothing snaps, quietly go camping with your boy.  If you drop your BSA membership, you can even let him invite a friend to go camping with y'all.

My evil side thinks that perhaps many of the scouts didn't want a 'boy-led' troop.  It's work for them.  Failure to do that work is embarrassing, and has consequences.  Many of my scouts learned from their failures; they learned that they never wanted to be a leader again.

Everybody seated?  JoeBob actually likes Camp Cards.  They worked well for my troop.

Why cook an egg at all?  The best egg ever is consumed raw, in a pint of Guinness.

Common sense, please.

A 3 sided structure lakeside with built in bunks and pads?  That's not an Adirondack, it's a cabin with an improved fart remover.

A 3 sided structure perched on the side of a mountain on the AT, with no level ground anywhere for a tent?   With 2 inch cracks between the floorboards for the mice play?  That's an Adirondack, and I'll count that night for your camping merit badge.

What about my boys that swing a hammock?  It's not 'under the stars' because of their rain-covers. They're not in a 'tent' that they 'pitched themselves', but I'm going to allow those camping nights to be added to their total.

If it's rustic, outdoors, and challenging the boys outside of their usual comfort zone, it's camping.  If it's an artificial environment created to make them feel like they are still at home, it's not camping.

This is what happens when micro-management festers until it pops.  

CS Day Camp just doesn't have to be so complicated.  A national school to teach you to fill out paperwork is a waste.

If I were you (I'd be better looking...), I would let the District DC die.

But I'd replace it with something simpler for my pack.  And maybe invite another local pack to participate.

Plan 5 'Go See It' type trips for the week of Day Camp.  Fire Station, zoo, local airport, bowling, local high school for CS sports day, National Guard armory, Boy Scout summer camp (if it's close).  Ride the train to some nearby location, have an ice cream cone and ride back.  With 3 months to make a plan, and then 4 months to recruit volunteers and sign up Boy Scouts for herding; you can put on a simpler version of CSDC that puts way less strain on your people, shouldn't cost more, and might even be more fun for the boys.

Looks like legal positioning to me.  

Now why would KoC worry about being sued?

If your FoS presenter is an unwelcome pain, you could always do a troop presentation immediately after.  "The money you give to the DE goes to the council camp that we don't attend.  If you want your money to go directly to your son's program, use the envelope that the boys are passing out now that has our troop treasurer's address on it.  Thank you!"

I bet the FoS guys leave you alone next year.

FWIW, our council is sensitive to our time when they visit.  They usually get around two grand from our 45 man troop.

1- Don't base your entire decision on how the boy relates to his parents.  I have one scout in particular who blows off his folks (because they let him) but knows that he can't get away with ignoring me.  Another boy's father regularly thanks me for making his son toe the line, because he can't control him at home.  It seems that we're teaching fathers, too.  If the boys want to be scouts, they will follow the rules that you set, as long as you enforce them.  Your leverage is their continued participation.

2- The down side to unruly boys is the challenge that they present to their youth leaders.  That conversation usually runs, "How do you think that youth leader who you just sassed is going to respond you when you are the leader?"

3- Bad behavior can be allowed a second chance; but I'd have a serious conversation with the scout laying down conditions first.  Behavior that endangers other scouts is held to a higher standard.  Willful behavior that endangers others, might not be forgiven.  

Pioneering

 It *is* pricey for a week of camping and bad cafeteria food. 

Cafeteria food?  The three we sent this year cooked all their meals, and said that the stress cooking situations was what they learned the most from.

They came back all fired up and 3 months later we can't get them to tuck in their shirt -tails...

Paul Bunyan was my favorite subject to teach.  You get a good partner on the other end of a crosscut and you can show off!

My theory is that Woodbadge is the key to BSA's corporate payroll structure.

By convincing volunteers that they should feel privileged to work for no pay, the big-wigs can afford to pay themselves ridiculous salaries.  As such, the WAYCW game is critical for conditioning volunteers to expect nothing in return for their efforts.

Full disclosure: I've never fallen for Wouldbadger, and have always been known as a trouble maker.

I'd start by getting the adults interested in the core outdoor skills.

8:00 am Saturday : "Tonight you will be making your own shelter in the woods and spending the night in it.  During the day today we will be teaching fire-building, survival shelter construction, basic cooking, local bugs and snakes, and rudimentary cooking skills for your dinner.  Pay attention if you want to; if you have knowledge of these topics, please help teach.  After you navigate back to your pick-up point in the morning, we'll have a good breakfast ready for you.  If you can't find the pick-up point, there is no extra charge for the weight loss."

3 hours before dark, pair them up with a stranger and drop them in the woods with a map for their return and 2 liters of water.  Let them take tarps and/or sleeping bags if the weather indicates.  Two eggs, two pieces of bread, two pieces of bacon, two matches and tin foil make dinner.  A granola bar for a pre-breakfast snack, if you're feeling nice.  Pair them with someone they don't know for a team-building dynamic.  Ask them to bring back 5 signs of animal life (feather, snail shell, chewed acorn) for Sundays discussion.

 I've always been shocked at the animosity out there of scouters toward the national BSA. The same people that claim to love the movement are often its harshest critics.

 

Some say that scouting has been watered down? IMO that comes down to the leaders. 

 

I think you've stumbled upon a truism: most true outdoors-men are rugged individualists.  Their independent nature makes them less willing to put up with group silliness. The more BSA bans water guns and elevates stuffed critters in the 'Pinnacle of Scout Training', the fewer hard men stay around to set the example.

Soon you have a bunch of adult leaders who would rather hang in a cabin and watch the game instead of hang in a solo hammock between 2 trees and dare the bears to bite my butt.

Oh yeah, Philmont banned hammocks, too.

JoeBob, I don't see a problem. 

 

Stosh, that guy staring at you in the mirror evidently doesn't have a clue.

 

Another well thought out bit of wisdom.  Thank you for making the effort to be so helpful.

Canoeing a river, swimming a lake, hiking a trail, cutting firewood, identifying plants, watching birds, building (and playing in) a fire, cooking your own breakfast in the woods...  Those are experiences that will grow Scouting.

I'd rather have half of BSA's current numbers doing the real program than the weenied down mess that we have devolved to.  I no longer expect to reach every boy; but I do like giving those boys who do come out the real woodcraft experience.

LOL, none of which answered the question of whether the decline might have happened no matter what.

The decline is numbers is not a problem.  The decline in the quality of the program is.

 

And none of that offered even a hint of what your solution might be.

I'm sorry; I missed your solution.  Should I read your post again?

 

But going with that absurd comparison of BSA to Ford Motor Company, there are precious few 1964 Mustangs on the highway today and precious little similarity between that Falcon-based version and the things that bear the name today. I also observe that there has been a huge decline in numbers of Mustangs sold over the years as well, about 12% of what sold in 1966.

 

Stosh, I know that you can defend yourself.  Sorry to butt in.  Sometimes the folks taking shots but offering nothing positive in response aggravate me. 

That's my job.

 

I thought the biggest error in 'Mike's' vision was pretty obvious.  Then I started reading all your posts and made a game of seeing how long it would take for someone else to catch on...

FINALLY Hedgehog said: 'Go outside.'

Mike's vision is for a boy's club that is constantly growing.  No reason for growing, no unifying purpose for it's members; other than growing. (Values?  You want values?  We got your values right here.  What'll ya have?  We got everybody's values in here somewhere.)  Just numbers.  And bigger numbers.  Glom on to whatever is in style this month, add it to 'the program', and grow our numbers.  Why?  Because big numbers are better.

I totally missed the part about using the outdoors and nature to put boys into situations where they can grow in self-confidence and character.

Scouting no longer has a soul.

He told lots of "war stories" that really helped to put things into perspective.

It's the war stories that make you think and keep the info in your head.

My EMT instructor 40 years ago was a Navy Corpsman who had some time in country.  The proper use for a towel clip?  To attach the tongue to the bottom lip thereby ensuring a clear airway so you can move on to more important things.

BBQ (Brisket!), 

That is NOT Barbecue!!

That brisket stuff is smoked beef.  It's not bad, but it's not Que.  If it has BBQ in the name, it has to start with a curly tail.

All those big salaries will really eat up the program dollars....

All these rules are for the adults.  Cub age boys don't know what the rules are, nor should they care.  They're in it for fun.

Make your decisions based on what is best for the boys.  (And that will not always be the official BSA position, i.e. water guns)

I'd focus on the Boy Scout joining requirements (Scout Badge) and let the rest go.  What is going to be the best help for the boys in their future?  Now, if the troop really is just an Eagle Mill that runs as a Weeb3 den, the best thing for the boys is to start visiting other troops.  And that would solve you COR problem.

What is the WFA take on snakebite in the deep woods?  

Say a Timber Rattler a solid day's hike out.  Is the current mantra 'wait for anti-venom', or is the old technique of 'cut and suck' still useful?

Realistically, is there any real reason that the BSA could not create our own self-certified course in WFA,

Two reasons pop to mind:

1- Liability.  The lawyers would never allow it, nor should they because of reason 2:

2- BSA training usually drops to the level of competence of the individual trainer, and sometimes lower.  Are there any BSA training courses that have close to 50% approval?  WFA can't be shoe-horned into a power-point.  It's more about a mindset: this human is broken in this manner.  Now that you understand the basic causes and potential problems, how are you going to deal with it using the supplies you have on hand?

I threw my hands up when I read this article.

http://www.fox5ny.com/news/25792758-story

Those dang flags are dangerous!

And then I thought of y'all...