JMHawkins

knew the parents and committee met, I received no feedback from the CC so I just assumed it was a general informational meeting. The DE got me thinking that may not be the case... DE has been around for a year, hired out of college. Hopefully this turns out to be just an inexperienced DE overreacting a bit then. But it is a great reminder to get the parents on board with the program. Also a great reminder about how gaps in communication can generate rumors. I've noticed it's not uncommon to go days or even weeks without seeing some of the other adults in the unit. That's a long time

The CC and COR can be the same person, absolutely. However, the COR is supposed to be a member of the Charter Organization. He or she is the official representative of the CO on the unit Committee. If you're a member of your CO independant of Scouting, then you're eligible. If not, it'll need to be someone else. I agree with ScoutNut though, the way you presented your plan, it sounds like a hostile takeover. Be prepared for angry parents and recriminations if you go that route, even if you have nothing but the best of intentions. How many of the parents in the Pack know you well

A couple of things we do to try and make it more fun and less contentious. The weekend before the race, the Cubmaster holds an Open Garage where boys (and dads) can bring their cars to the weigh in/inspection. After the weigh in, the car is sequestered and the Cubmaster holds onto it until the race, so any disagreements about whether the car is legal or not can be resolved way in advance. Also, for families without access to tools or the know how to use them, they have a change to work on their cars at the Open Garage. We also started doing an Open Division. The idea is to maybe ch

Oh, and clemlaw makes a great point. Whatever our obligations as unit leaders are to the CO, the CO certainly doesn't have an obligation to force other unit leaders to run the other units the way we think they should. Bringing the entire "the CO owns the Pack" issue in as an argument for why the Troop should expect the Pack to defer to them has things upside down. The assumption is that the Pack leaders are misbehaving, but - since the COR/IH is the boss - that's not up to the Troop leaders to decide. Let the COR know you have concerns, sure, but if the COR says he expects the units to oper

There is the abstract principle, and then there's how you turn that principle into relevant actions. I completely agree we as unit leaders have obligations (and an agency obligation seems a reasonable enough description) to the CO. But what - exactly - are the particulars, especially as applied to this case? Let's go with the agency idea a bit. I hire Beavah as my legal agent in some Real Estate dispute (I have no idea what Beavah's specialty is, let's assume it's Real Estate Law). It's pretty clear what his obligations to me are with respect to that particular dispute. But in the co

I've been thinking about loyalty a lot lately myself, so this is a timely discussion for me anyway. It occured to me that one of the problems we're having in the US at least is a, well, odd sense of loyalty among many of our upper crust. Trying not to veer into I&P forum territory, I think we have a lot of "leaders" (in business, politics, everywhere) who prefer loyalty to abstract concepts over loyalty to fellow human beings. Which is awfully convenient for them. If you're loyal to some abstract concept, who exactly will notice when you're disloyal? Abstract concepts never look y

Seattle Pioneer, I think those two concepts are perfect.

Beavah, BP, I did say that if "...the Pack leadership is not doing the best it can for the Cub Scouts in the pack, and if you want to take that up with the COR, or IH, or the DE, have at it." It is absolutely reasonable for anyone - especially someone well-versed in what Scouting ought to look like - to inform a CO if they think leaders of a unit that org has chartered are misbehaving. But if the centerpiece of what you think they're doing wrong is making it hard for you to recruit their scouts, maybe you aren't the best person to make the case to the COR, especially if you haven't fost

Unfortunately your answer does nothing to solve the ever growing division between these pack and troop leaders So why is that a problem? And why would it be "ever growing" if the Troop leaders just went on with things not worrying about what the Pack was doing? I think people are getting hung up on the "same CO" deal when really, given the minimal level of involvment this CO seems to have (based on the description), that's just not an issue. Would you say the same thing if the Pack was chartered to the local VFW hall and the Troop was charterd to the Rotarians? Trying to get

TwoCub, Yes, the parents were remiss and unless there's a subtext that Engineer didn't know about, awfully thin-skinned too. My only point is, that might not be entirely uncommon these days. We can write 'em off, and say better to focus our energy on families who will give us the benefit of the doubt. Or we can try to proactively explain the situation. I imagine the best use of an individual leader's time will depend on the community they live in. Where I'm at, I think making the proactive effort is well worth it. It's worth realizing that an aspect of modern life is that an increasin

"Can not" participate, or "don't want him to" participate? I'm not much of a prayer-sayer myself. My religious principles and notions of reverence don't require public prayer, and in my own spiritual life I don't do that. But I'm not allergic to people and faiths who do, and I have no problem sitting reverently through a respectful prayer or two. Further, I have no problem with my son sitting through respectful prayers and being exposed to other people's faiths. Now, if those "other people" wanted to start selling him on the wonderful advantages of their faith, I might take exception

Beavah, it's a good point about customer vs agent, but it sounds like this is one of those situations where the CO is more in the position of "doing a favor" for the units by signing their charters, rather than actively using scouting and the units as part of its own youth program. If that's really the situation, the units (and the leaders) might technically be agents of the CO, but for practical day-today purposes they're independant entities and the CO maybe wouldn't appreciate getting dragged into a spat between two sets of volunteers. They're just doing folks a favor, after all. Might b

Hmmm, I don't know that I agree that the troop and pack having the same CO really matters. The Pack doesn't exist to support the Troop, or vice versa. Both exist to support the boys in the program, and who signs the annual charter shouldn't matter one whit to the boys in either program. From the description, it may be that the Pack leadership is not doing the best it can for the Cub Scouts in the pack, and if you want to take that up with the COR, or IH, or the DE, have at it. But if you complain that they're not giving your troop a sporting chance to recruit from their cubs, eh, jus

Engineer, If you want your son to take a cell phone for emergencies, then a) be prepared for him to lose or destroy it, and b) make sure he knows to turn it OFF when he leaves the house and not turn it ON again until he gets home, unless he needs to use it for an emergency. This isn't to preserve the troop's outdoor experience, it's to preserve the cell phone's battery. A cell phone that can't find a signal will constantly send out pings, looking for a cell tower. If it doesn't find one, it will drain it's battery within a couple of hours. Then when he needs to use it and manages

I told Scouts last year that to be able to attend, they had to go on some of our other weekend backpacking trips. Their first backpacking trip with the Troop WILL NOT be a 4-day, 3-nighter on an island. Camp Sheppard on Mt. Rainer used to do High Adventure treks up the mountain (they just stopped this year - apparently because the Fed Gov asked them to - if anyone has more info, please pass it on). Anyway, it's not an easy trek. Half the people who try to summit fail, and 96 people have died climbing the mountain. It's serious business going up there. For local folks, the camp staff r

NOldFatGuy, Don't forget to tell your DE that your Friends Of Scouting coordinator doesn't meet the BMI standards either, and since badgering all those parents for money in today's economy is a bit of a "high adventure" endeavor, you'll have to cancel your FOS participation.

UCEagle72 - Thanks! That's what I was looking for.

Stosh's point is pretty important. Almost all the other (semi-) organized activities a typical boy participates in will be adult directed and led, so to the extend he needs adult direction to develop, he's getting plenty of it. Scouts - using the Patrol Method - is one of the very few, maybe only, opportunites he will have to have real responsibility for planning and execution. What is a better use of his time, another activity where he learns to follow an adult's direction, just like all the school and sports activities he's already involved in? Or one where he gets some experience figuri

I'm all for limiting weight to under 300 lbs if it's somewhere backwoods that you have to haul someone out on a stretcher for miles. yeah, 2 adults and a handful of kids is still going to have difficulty moving you. But part C isn't about how difficult it's going to be for the rest of the Troop to pack somebody out. I'm 260, but 6'4", so I pass. If one of the other leaders is 6'0" and 250, he doesn't. I weight more than he does. I'll be a bigger headache for someone to pack out if I get hurt, but I can go and he can't. What, the extra 4 inches is enough room for another pair of sco

Let's take turns lifting each other on sretchers into the backs of ambulances. I bet there would be a lot of peer pressure for each other to lose the extra spare tires. Excellent idea, but one to handle at the unit level, not National. I'm not a small guy. I'm 6'4" and about 260. I could stand to lose a little weight, but 15 years ago when I was in great shape (running 25+ miles a week, basketball leagues 3 nights a week, gym every day, etc) I still weighed 240. I know nobody is going to want to pack me out of somewhere. On the other hand, I'm in a better position to pack someo

There's probably nothing the BSA could have done to avoid the editing job Nightline did to their responses. Just the nature of the game... Actually, there is something they could have done - and that the rest of us should keep in mind too. In this day and age of the Internet and YouTube, the best defense against a Nightline-style hatchet job is to have your own camera at the interview. Have a friend/colleague tag along to the interview with a camcorder and record it yourself. Then if they do a hatchet job, release the full, unedited, interview on YouTube. More people will probably see

My reactions: a) Health History section of Part A: do we really need this? The only reason to have it is if someone gets hurt on a trip and needs to be taken to the Emergency Room by the rest of the Unit, but since Part C is needed for anything far enough away not to be able to shout "MOM!!!!!" if the kid gets hurt, what good is a checkbox health history form? I especially like the line for "surgery". The question is "Are you now, or have you ever been treated for any of the following: surgery". Well, no, I've never been "treated" for surgery. I have "had" surgery - to remove my ap

How about stock recruiting photos? Things like scouts hiking, camping, rapelling, pioneering, cooking around a campfire, sailing, archery... Stock photos we could put on our website in the recruiting section so we don't need to buy stock photos.

Biggest problem I can see is the need for Vehicle/Driver info three weeks out. If a troop uses parents to get kids to the trailhead... I guess you just get every potential volunteer parent driver's vehicle info at the begining of the year, put 'em all down on the TP, and then figure out who's actually driving closer to the event.

It turns out that after you cook a pork chop in dish soap, no amount of scraping of the pork chop will remove the soap taste. It does an excellent job of penetrating the meat. I always thought you got your mouth washed out with soap after you said the bad words, but this story makes me think maybe it works the other way around too sometimes...