jhankins

We'll have to agree to disagree, Gary. I have read the new material, and believe it will be a detriment to scouting in my area. You are neglecting to mention the things that changed and were announced last month at the leadership training meeting.

The way registration works is going to change. Stake troops can now come back. Wards can now choose to register with other wards and combine program should they feel the need.

But the heavy restrictions on fund raising are penalizing troops who are part of a community and actually lead scouting in the community, not just for their church boys (as the LDS church says their church should work). One fundraiser for camp?

So if the boy can't raise the money, the ward budget is gone, and they've had their one fund raiser, that's it? The boy can't go?

The Scouting in the church book is still in use with the Handbook 2. Policy is still the same for governing which ages of boys can participate in which program.

https://new.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church?lang=eng

There are SO many changes in the new handbook. But the new handbook still works together with the old, so you have to reference both to get a clear picture.

Some of the new changes don't make sense, of course. It's still up to the Bishop to decide what's best for his youth and the youth he serves.

Not in my Area, Eagle. Pay still comes from the local council for all employees. Perhaps the council you're hearing that from owes National some money and Bob's taken over the finances?

Definitely talk to the course director, and consider asking your employer. I wrote a letter last year for anyone looking to approach their employer for paying for all/part of the course, and it details the basis of the program and the learning objectives.

This year we raised $1,000 at our reunion dinner for scholarships. That doesn't even count the people who chip in to pay to help send people from their districts on their own.

If you want savable fillable PDFs, sent me a note with your email address. I'll make them for you

I offered to do this for my council for every form on the website, they declined, citing the inability for the staff to keep up with emails accurately...

Sounds like a network node failure, not a BSA failure

... because I was a boy scout tag-a-long as a kid and was jealous!

Now, my son stays in willingly because he understands that being prepared and doing a good turn have awesome rewards.

Our entire staff for Wood Badge wore kilts. Some wore their family tartan, some wore the USMC Leatherneck tartan, some wore the University of California Riverside Pipe Band tartan, and others still wore the MacLaren.

It was not only fun to learn about the history of Scotland and tartans, but it was a diversity experience for the staff and participants.

http://www.snurgle.org/~polyhymn/staff.jpg

We're not seeing the complete cost picture. There are going to be hidden costs with construction and grading and surveying and utilities being brought in (and dug), that just don't appear on the surface.

Alot of the cost is built into the project simply by building something at all. Building permits, contractor fees... It all adds up.

Maybe a little bribery with the venturing units? Do it on a weekend they get to camp or use facilities for free? Let the youth play on the COPE course and let the leaders get trained as an "Asset" to their program already in place?

I was reminded the other day that B-P's vision for the patrol method meant that a troop would only be 32 boys.

B-P, in his ever present humor also said that: I realize other scout leaders will only be half as good as I am at running the patrol method, so most other people should have scout groups of no more than 1 boys.

Just some food for thought. It's caused me to analyze how we implement the patrol method a whole lot more.

All but one of the boys from my council that received NESA scholarships this year are Catholic.

I'm the only district chair in my council willing to do the test-out option at this point.

I'm writing the test now, and it will be done for November 30th's Council Coordinated Meeting.

I hope others get off their duffs to do it.

Welcome! I work with autism spectrum boys in my district. I find it quite rewarding to see the gains and challenges they overcome. I hope your son really enjoys his time in Scouting as it sounds like you did.

At a pack meeting, we had the boys and a parent come up. The boys took the pledge on the card in front of the whole pack, then they got their patch.

The parents got a mini first aid kit of bandaids

Your message is simply incorrect, BadenP.

Any Charter Organization has the means and methods to apply the program to reach its own goals as long as they stick to the fundamental Scouting program. That's the beauty of the Charter agreement. A service club uses the scouts to accomplish their goals just as much as any church organization uses it.

If you're being told that the LDS church inserts its religious goals over the Scout Oath and Law, then that message is completely incorrect.

The program is the same. How the boys acquire merit badges and rank is the same. The boys excel and become excellent leaders and by doing so, become the citizens of the world we would want them to be. Because they then become missionaries for two years and use the skills they learned as Scouts doesn't mean that the entire program's benefits are negated.

Sorry, you're just simply misinformed.

I had a wonderful, pleasant conversation yesterday with David Pack, the liaison national professional located in Salt Lake. What a guy!

Brother Pack is passionate about Scouting. He gave himself goose bumps talking about Baden-Powell's vision for the patrol method, and how we're not educating each other the same way we used to. He talked about Commissioners helping to educate and fill the gap in training where we don't teach the patrol method in basic training now. He talked about finding ways to work around the current issues and loss of training.

He talked about the importance of training at any level, from Troop Leader Training all the way through Wood Badge. That every training class gives boys the opportunity to learn and teach and become who they need to be, regardless of what they might do once they leave scouting.

He talked about getting back to the goal that a troop be 32 boys. Baden-Powell said it with humor and parable, but that 32 boys was the perfect size. Mega troops mean scoutmasters aren't mentors anymore, they're crowd control.

He talked about the fact that every LDS troop should be recruiting outside its own walls. If a ward is responsible for every single soul and life outside its walls an in its area, then the boys should be invited to partake in the gift of scouting.

He also mentioned that the coming changes to the Scouting Green book are all at the discretion of the Stake President and the Bishop. Should a troop need more fund raising because they have 25 non-member boys, go ahead!

If you really have concerns about LDS scouting, call the LDS BSA relations office, and talk to Mr. Pack. You won't regret it.

We're implementing a program we like to call Super Saturday. Once a month, trainers from all over the council come to one district and train basic training for every position (including an overnight IOLS).

The following month, the trainers all go visit another district, and we rinse and repeat.

So far, the response is good. It's less load on each district to get basic training done.

Wow, it would be interesting to see what the staff gets for the same fee as the participants, considering the participant fee includes media use and other things the staff doesn't pay for.

Our charge here is $240, but that includes all the literature, a course shirt, mug, caribeener, hat, camping fees, insurance, food, program supplies, the media use fee, facility fees (porta potties), etc...

We had it down to $220, but we had to dip into out contingency fund to make it work, so up it went to $240.

The staff also pays $120.

I'm sorry your experience with Wood Badge was not up to par with what it should be. It gives the course a bad reputation when course directors don't follow the pledge they take in front of their counterparts.

Wood Badge is open to all in my council. We hold two courses a year -- one Thursday-Saturday, and one Friday-Sunday. The staffs are always diverse racially and with mixed genders. Last year, we had over 45% Cub Scout leaders attend Wood badge, and 33% of each patrol (2) were women. The variety was wonderful, and enhanced the course so much, having such varied life experiences, opinions and places to have fun!

Any Scouter even close to #5 has a short career in Wood Badge. The very core of the message of the course is that being a servant leader is the way we all should go! If you're not at Wood Badge to be a team player, to focus on the maximum impact the material can make on the lives of every boy each participant touches, you're shown the door.

We do question National and Regional quite often, especially at our annual training meetings. Why is Trainer's Edge now mandatory every 3 years if I'm staffing Wood Badge and presenting material with platform skills ten times a year?? Why was the 30 day meeting removed from the syllabus? Why do I have to wait for my Scout Executive to send my list of staff to National before I can ask someone to serve on staff?? This things are healthy questions and we should ask -- it's our program.

Wood Badge for me as a Den Leader with one year under my belt helped me understand the relationship between all 4 programs. I was led on a journey through Scouting and provided tools to help me bridge the generation gaps between me and the youth. I was given the opportunity to network and meet other like minded Scouters who want to have the most impact on the boys as possible. I got to test myself personally with a contract between me and my own goals, and I learned a lot about myself because my course directors showed me the door to that journey.

Any deviations, personal flair, traditions from council to council all create not only an aire of a cult, but also destroy the chances to have these encounters.

My council holds two weekend format courses per year. We're looking at possibly adding a third in the next few years. The Spring course is Th-Saturday and usually has 36 participants. The Fall Course is always full to 48, and went to 54 in '09.

The council south of us only has Wood Badge every other year. The other councils in my area all hold Wood Badge twice a year, or hold a cluster course every year.

Finished staffing my 2nd weekend for the 2nd time on October 3rd, so I feel your pain!

I just attended our Area Leadership Conference for training for next year's Wood Badge and feel the excitement building for next fall's course!

I'll say it again. How a Charter Organization chooses to use the program doesn't change the program.

All my boys go through scoutmaster conferences and boards of review, just like a non LDS boy. We have Interfaith worship services, the boys have the exact same requirements, participate in the Order of the Arrow, work with the AmVets to serve veterans and yes, we even hold fundraisers.

Just because there is a definition to how the program is executed doesn't change the core content of the program. It's called by-laws or instructions, and there's nothing wrong with it, and doesn't change a non-LDS boy into a Mormon.

The little green book states that an 11 year old may have 3 campouts PER YEAR until he turns 12. So that's six campouts during his age span, not 3.

The First Class requirement to cook breakfast, lunch and dinner he planned, that can happen on an all day outing. We've taken our boys on an all day hike/skills camp without camping overnight. They got up early in the morning, set up camp, did skills, went on a hike, prepared their meals, and had a blast, all without using one of our precious nights of camping.

The Boy Scouts of America serves as the activity arm, the practical use of the skills of the young men's program of the LDS church. Scouting is helping the church accomplish a goal. Uh... That's what Scouting does for ALL charter partners. That's how it's written in the texts, that's how DEs market scouting, and that's how the program should be run. Scouting helps organizations accomplish their goals.

We have secret ceremonies in my units. It's called the Pledge of Allegiance, an opening prayer, and heaven forbid it, yes, we sing! There are no dissertations or explanations of the message of the Pearl of Great Price. BadenP, I'm sorry, if you were privy to church teachings within the confines of a Troop meeting, that's not what's written in the literature, and it's not done everywhere. As a professional with 70% LDS units, I attended more than 30 Eagle ceremonies, 30-40 pack meetings, 50 or so troop and crew meetings, and never once was asked to do anything out of the ordinary. I was even asked to attend a Bishop's Leader's meeting with a Stake President, and the only odd thing I was asked to do was pray on bended knee.

It still seems as if people in the thread consider the LDS church a cult and think therefore, there must be something secret happening to the boys to indoctrinate them.

Back on topic, please. Spin off the homosexuality issue to the other threads.

The LDS BSA packet published by David Pack the national employee in charge of relations states that the quorum president are *usually" the leaders of each program, but that is not always the case. When I called to clarify this, I was told that troops with non-members definitely could have a boy leader provided the boy had a conference with the Bishop.

Our Bishop tends to go over the Standards to reinforce conduct with the protential SPLs, too.