AnneinMpls

Oh thanks! That's exactly the sort of thing I need for the meeting

Another good one is to have a rope/string tied to the dominant wrists (lefthanded or righthanded)of the buddies and then to eat a meal - works if seated across a table so that only one can get a forkful to his mouth at a time.

This is neat...first game brings up communication, this one brings up cooperation.

Anymore out there?

I bet some of you could rattle off 5 good ones without even taking a breath )

(Meeting's tomorrow and we're getting ready for our first overnight event coming up soon)

Anne, scattered in Mpls

Sigh. I know GSUSA missed the boat when the Girl Scout Law was rephrased to "I will do my best..."

Current phrasing is as follows, for those who are curious about such things!

I will do my best to be

honest and fair,

friendly and helpful,

considerate and caring,

courageous and strong, and

responsible for what I say and do,

and to

respect myself and others,

respect authority,

use resources wisely,

make the world a better place, and

be a sister to every Girl Scout.

Somebody even put up a page about the changes in the law over time...

http://www.epilogsys.com/scoutingweb/SubPages/GSLawHis.htm

I do actually like the current version compared to the one I grew up with (and I'll leave y'all to figure out which version that was!)

Peace out,

Anne in Mpls

Some of the Studio2B stuff is ok for an add-on to program, but if they're truly going to make this *the* older girl program umbrella, GSUSA is no longer going to have an older girl program.

Why can't they find a way to do it right? BSA a while back in the 70s made a mistake with program and got back on course. GSUSA got offtrack then too, but never bothered to redirect (although the 5 worlds of interest were pretty good - wish they'd bring that back!)

You should have seen the look of disgust on our Cadette's face when she compared her books to what our Junior girls had just received. Council tells me if I just get her the S2B materials she'll be happy. I really don't think so.

Arrgh.

Anne in Mpls

Some of the Studio2B stuff is ok for an add-on to program, but if they're truly going to make this *the* older girl program umbrella, GSUSA is no longer going to have an older girl program.

Why can't they find a way to do it right? BSA a while back in the 70s made a mistake with program and got back on course. GSUSA got offtrack then too, but never bothered to redirect (although the 5 worlds of interest were pretty good - wish they'd bring that back!)

You should have seen the look of disgust on our Cadette's face when she compared her books to what our Junior girls had just received. Council tells me if I just get her the S2B materials she'll be happy. I really don't think so.

Arrgh.

Anne in Mpls

Ahem.

Hi Alpha - have been wondering how things are going with your troop this year?

Blessings!

Anne in Mpls

Let's subtitle this one "When you gots sucky patrol members"

Going back to Ed and Bob's excellent adventure of sorting out the matrix between good leadership, poor leadership, and negative response and positive response...

I think we've all been there where you got a group of just totally bad-attitude-weilding grumpy obnoxious scouts (havn't we??) Even so, good leadership ought to result in results that suck less than bad leadership... In other words, given patrol members that suck, (for whatever reason, temporary or chronic) bad leadership will *not* make things better.

So, there's still a definite need to build the leadership skills (while there is also likely a need to work in some individual conferencing with a particularly uncooperative scout.)

I *don't* think I've ever encountered the situation Ed describes where patrol members who suck end up doing a better job given really poor leadership. The SPL Ed described doesn't sound like he was a "poor leader" - actually Ed didin't say a word about this kid's leadership - he described his outward appearance. Granted, outward appearance can help or hinder one's leadership, but this is dependent upon how the appearance is "read" by the particular group. I'm betting this SPL's outward appearance communicated something positive to boys in the troop. Plenty of standard texts on leadership tell you to wear a three piece suit. The three piece suit is only conducive to leadership of groups where the three piece suit communicates something positive

Anyway, this is a long way of saying I don't think Ed has truly provided evidence of poor leadership resulting in positive outcomes, so I'm not adding this to my matrix yet

And, hey, I think I'd like to play sandlot baseball in Bobland - come to think of it, it sounds a lot more like Scouting than baseball

Peace out,

Anne in Mpls

Bob, I agree with you to the best of my ability to do so

How do we motivate adults to sit on their hands, so to speak? The temptation is SO GREAT to want to hurry the process and make the troop "look right", to make the patrols efficiently operating units, to generate some demonstrable achievements - badges - names on the Eagle plaque...

and I still struggle with this myself - the tension is between how much to let the kids struggle with the problems, or whether to get something up and running that at least shows them what is possible.

I came across a website where the Roundtable Commish had asked a SM what it is their troop does to win the awards every year at the Klondike. The SM wrote out their very detailed troop operations that basically through out every aspect of the patrol method as we know it. New scouts were not allowed to attend troop meetings until they'd been through a 3 month training program held separately from troop meetings. Patrol leaders were required to be a certain age and rank (like, 16 and Life) and new boys were assigned to a patrol once they completed the "training". Patrols then spent the year drilling every potential skill area that could come up at Klondike (and, yup, every patrol had a JASM or ASM assigned). In the weeks prior to the event, patrols would drill 2 or 3 times a week...I'm thinking, where is the scouting? What are they learning from this? And *why* would the Roundtable be promoting this as an exemplary troop?

Peace out,

Anne in Mpls

There are both legitimate and illergitimate but doable ways to visit Cuba (so I've heard - have not done it myself!)

There are certain programs going to Cuba that the State Department classes as "cultural exchange opportunities" or some such animal - these need to be planned carefully, the whole itinerary, etc is submitted to the proper channels and it is scrutinized. There's a certain aim of not benefitting their economy by the travel...I have very little clue beyond this, and my information might be outdated - current administration may have closed this off.

I have also heard of folks going to Canada and booking their Cuban holiday through a Canadian travel agency - seems I've heard it's easy enough to get out of Canada, and takes some pitiful sobbing and humiliation to be allowed to get back in again, and thus home.

Obviously, there are Scout-like ways to attempt such a journey, and UNScout-like ways!

Enjoy!

Anne in Mpls

Hi - sounds like you've all been through the wringer! I too have had some encounters with very odd parents making wild accusations. I can definitely understand that it would leave a bad taste in your mouth regarding troop politics, etc.

I'm checking in Safety-Wise as I remembered something that might pertain to your predicament with the council:

Take a looksee at program standard 20 on page 72. "A group consists of at least 5 girls from more than one family." That to me looks like a definition....if you're getting together with only 2 or 3 other girls, then you're not a "group" according to Safety-Wise, and the council shouldn't have anything to say about it. Heck, sounds like in your council if me and my daughter get together with Deborah and *her* daughter and work on a Try-it together we might get one of those lovely letters! (Doesn't your council have better things to do??)

On the other hand, if it's 5 or more girls involved in this, then, yes, you are then obligated to register as a group of some kind with your council and they may have several different options for doing this. Around here, you could register as a "group troop" or a "co-op troop" or a regular troop. There are also policies regarding "short-term interest groups". Anyway, if you have 5 girls doing this, it does make sense for the council to have you known and registered because that is the point at which you have organized enough to need to be held accountable to all the Safety-Wise and council regulations. But, dang....threatening revocation of membership?

Also, what is your relationship like with your Service Unit? Here, our Juliettes (Solos) and their moms attend our monthly Service Unit meetings - it helps us to remember to keep them included in event planning, and helps them to still feel connected to the larger Girl Scout family. If you are active in your Service Unit, you may find you'll have advocates for you and your girls' program. I know you've been through some icky stuff - try to move past it - this too is all good valuable modelling for your girls.

Peace out,

Anne in Mpls

Update...

Called mom this morning - she greeted me happily until I asked how her conversation with the daughter had gone - turns out the daughter lied to her mother, saying I had shown up and told her I *found* my wallet in my car. No such thing happened and mom hit the roof so to speak when she discovered she'd been so blatantly lied to. She asked me to stop by after my trip to replace my DL so that's where I'm headed now. I'm praying on all of this, though I'm really kindof at a loss even how to pray...add yours too if you could please.

Peace out,

Anne in Mpls

This might help on your quest for knowledge

"Gnosticism

The doctrine of salvation by knowledge. This definition, based on the etymology of the word (gnosis "knowledge", gnostikos, "good at knowing"), is correct as far as it goes, but it gives only one, though perhaps the predominant, characteristic of Gnostic systems of thought. Whereas Judaism and Christianity, and almost all pagan systems, hold that the soul attains its proper end by obedience of mind and will to the Supreme Power, i.e. by faith and works, it is markedly peculiar to Gnosticism that it places the salvation of the soul merely in the possession of a quasi-intuitive knowledge of the mysteries of the universe and of magic formulae indicative of that knowledge. Gnostics were "people who knew", and their knowledge at once constituted them a superior class of beings, whose present and future status was essentially different from that of those who, for whatever reason, did not know. A more complete and historical definition of Gnosticism would be:

A collective name for a large number of greatly-varying and pantheistic-idealistic sects, which flourished from some time before the Christian Era down to the fifth century, and which, while borrowing the phraseology and some of the tenets of the chief religions of the day, and especially of Christianity, held matter to be a deterioration of spirit, and the whole universe a depravation of the Deity, and taught the ultimate end of all being to be the overcoming of the grossness of matter and the return to the Parent-Spirit, which return they held to be inaugurated and facilitated by the appearance of some God-sent Saviour.

However unsatisfactory this definition may be, the obscurity, multiplicity, and wild confusion of Gnostic systems will hardly allow of another. Many scholars, moreover, would hold that every attempt to give a generic description of Gnostic sects is labour lost."

The rest of the article may be found here:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06592a.htm

Peace out,

Anne in Mpls

Got home from our 2nd meeting of the new troop we just started up (GS grades 4-8) and discovered my wallet was missing.

Now, I had my wallet when I got into the car - I always reach into my purse to dig my keys out from under my wallet, dug into my purse, didn't find my keys, and remembered I had them in my pocket. Got in the car with two girls I was driving (they are sisters - the older one was elected SPL, and the other was elected Treasurer). Dropped the younger one off at her dad's house. Drove over to my friend's house to pick up my daughter - the older girl got out of the car with me to go up to the house saying she "didn't want to be in the car by herself". I left my purse in the car and locked the doors. (It was after dark). Got back to my car with older girl and my daughter. Both chose to sit in the back seat.

Older girl said her mom said she could go to her auntie's house - drove there - (two blocks from her home) - got out to check with the aunt to make sure a follow-up call was made home, but when we got to the door, she found out her cousins weren't there so she wanted to go home instead saying that her cousins were probably over there. The girls live on my block. So, drove her home, watched her go up to the door, but she didn't go inside. Mom waved to me from the doorway, the girl went to the front steps of the house next door to hang out with some friends.

I drove around the block to go home. Got out of the car. Wallet was gone.

I'm pretty upset...their mom says she will talk to the girls because "she can get more out of them I will be able to". Been about an hour since I talked to her - no phone call from the mom yet. I phoned in a police report on a "missing item".

We are supposed to be going to the observatory tomorrow night (both the Brownie troop and this new troop). Right now, I'm feeling like I don't want to take these girls *anywhere*. Just wondering, what would you do? If this has happened in your troop, what did you do, and how did things turn out?

Just wonderin,

Peace out,

Anne in Mpls

Yes, in my very old handbooks (circa 1920 or so) their neckerchiefs have a kind of Navy flair - ends flying out to the sides a bit. I can see how the slipknot idea would work nicely to keep the ends hanging straight down.

Sidenote on the reminder to do a Good Turn - we Girl Scouts have a tradition that upon receiving the membership pin, it is pinned on upside-down and worn that way until the girl has done her first good turn Back in the twenties, the membership pin was pinned onto the square knot of the neckerchief.

Does anyone know of a supplier of full square neckerchiefs? Yes, we can buy favric and make them ourselves, but one advantage of a supplier is that (hopefully) they would continue to have the same fabric in stock along with any artwork for embroidery or screening...

Peace out,

Anne in Mpls

Guys, help me out here...

My *very old* GS handbooks all say to tie the neckerchief in a square knot...what the heck kind of slipknot is used to tie a neckerchief?

Going out on a limb here - son't know how poetry will play with this group, but sometimes a good poem can set just the right tone at campfires or ceremonies... this'un's a favorite of mine

Seal Lullaby

Rudyard Kipling

OH! hush thee, my baby, the night is behind us,

And black are the waters that sparkled so green.

The moon, oer the combers, looks downward to find us

At rest in the hollows that rustle between.

Where billow meets billow, there soft be thy pillow;

Ah, weary wee flipperling, curl at thy ease!

The storm shall not wake thee, nor shark overtake thee,

Asleep in the arms of the slow-swinging seas.

The other thread got me thinking on this. When we designed our own troop "travel" uniform to get out of the horrid lime green things, we made neckerchiefs - big square ones that had to be folded diagonally in half. My friend who had attended a jamboree with the French Eclaireuses taught us to roll them the French way - three girls each holding one point to keep it taut while being rolled. My neckerchief still has the neatest tightest roll to it - wish I still had reason to wear it.

I've noticed in many of the older photos of Scouts that the neckerchiefs were usually just gathered up and tied with no rolling. I believe several Scout organizations still wear them this way around the world. For the BSA, is the method of wearing the neckerchief (to roll or not to roll) a troop option, or is there one and only one official way (apart from the over or under collar option)?

Do any of your troops currently use full square neckerchiefs? What dimension?

Thanks!

Anne in Mpls

I was just waiting for this forum to get interesting again - kinda like watching a car accident.

I wonder how many people get arrested while engaged in normal everyday activities, like brushing their teeth, watching the game on tv, picking up their kids from school....

I can just hear the outcry now..."Does no one hear the cry of the innocent! He was merely flossing! FLOSSING!!! Americans are told to floss their teeth, but a Muslim man flossing his teeth is arrested! Such are the injustices we must bear and you are all blinded sheep with teeth that need flossing."

Peace out,

Anne in Mpls

I guess this particular family just left me feeling really overwhelmed. That in itself is surprising - I've brought Girl Scouting to a lot of similar families in the inner city. One family that I used to pick up from an apt. building in South Mpls had their home show up on a local station's undercover story on drug dealing. They even showed their surveillance tape taken from a building across the street, showing me going in and out of that building every week (lol). Another family I saw on the news when their house burned to the ground - they had been using the stove to heat the home because the furnace was not working. One of my Brownies died in that fire many years back.

I didn't mean to leave the impression that I intended to deliver a watered-down program - just that my own personal resources (financial, emotional, time...) do get stretched thin sometimes - today was one of those times, and I am really grateful for this supportive group of good folks here. I guess I needed to be reminded that it is worth doing whether or not these larger problems stay around.

Anne in Mpls

I've been making home visits all weekend to get registration forms done. The family I visited today, this was my third try at getting in touch with the mom. Mom was home today - she registered 6 of her girls in our troops- the other two are too young. Took a long time to get everything done for 6 girls, with the oldest helping to fill out names and addresses then passing them to mom to finish off - national registration, health form, financial aid form - so had plenty of time to take in the surroundings. 2 windows are broken and winter is coming around the corner. All girls dressed in torn and dirty clothes. Very little furniture (one couch, one tv stand, no chairs or table, I assume at least one bed in the bedroom that was closed off. No phone or car. The girls walk to an aunt's house close by and then are walked to our meeting place.

So, I'm again pondering what our goals are with youth coming from situations like these. Earlier today I was trying to come up with ways to involve them in this year's JOTI - we had a new internet cafe open up just down the road, but now I'm second-guessing myself and maybe feeling just a tad discouraged and entertaining thoughts of does it really make a difference? Can I motivate the girls and myself to tackle a service project when their own home could use a few thousand dollars in repairs?

It's depressing - I want to do my share in doing good stuff and I hit the wall when I see things I can't just go ahead and fix.

Peace out,

Anne in Minneapolis

OGE's got it right - GS left ranks behind in the early 60s, rewrote every single badge to have optional requirements, etc.

Bronze Silver and Gold awards in Girl Scouting earned by girls in grades 4-6, 7-9, and 10-12 respectively do not specify any outdoor skills. They do all require leadership experience and career exploration and community service.

Generally speaking, the average girl scout today probably knows how to tie an overhand knot and a square knot, and may have spent a night under a tent. Very likely to have had at least an explanation of campfire safety, may have toasted a marshmallow or two. These are *probably* not the girls who will be seeking out a Venturing Crew.

Some Girl Scouts have extensive outdoor experience but don't necessarily have badges or other awards to show for it - these are the ones who will be drawn to Venturing and will probably be very into finally getting recognition for their skills.

American Camping Association has a new badge program called Outdoor Living Skills. I've begun using this program with the girls in my troops to recognize their developing skills. You might suggest to your local Service Unit (sortof like a BSA district - it's the Girl Scout group of adults responsible for troops in your area) to use this program, and then you'll have girls with demonstrated skills ready to come into Venturing. A few GS Councils have established their own outdoor skill recognition programs but there is no consistency between them.

http://www.acacamps.org/education/ols.htm will give you the info on ols.

http://www.acacamps.org/education/olsskill.htm

Peace out,

Anne in Mpls

If your quesion is concerning how to make the den numbers work most easily, here's a thought.

Assuming you don't yet have dens numbered, number your dens in order from oldest to youngest:

Web II (or all Webelos if they are all in the same den) - Den 1

Web I - Den 2

Bears - Den 3

Wolves - Den 4

Tigers - Den 5

(Maybe you've got 2 dens worth of Bears...in that case you can do Bear Den 3, Bear Den 4, then Wolves - Den 5, Tigers - Den 6, etc.)

The next year, ranks move up, Web 2's age out, so you can then recycle the Den 1 number for that year's Tigers:

Web II - Den 2

Web I - Den 3

Bears - Den 4

Wolves - Den 5

Tigers - Den 1 (Got more than one den's worth of Tigers? Call that other Tiger Den Den 6)

This way, you don't have to buy all those different den flags - the den flag stays with that den till they age out. Equipment labelled with the Den number gets returned to the pack when the den ages out (and probably the leader is moving on then too) and gets turned over to the next new den.

Just one way to do it - there's other workable plans out there too but this system made things simpler for me.

Peace out,

Anne in Mpls

Scoutmaster vs Asst Scoutmaster immediately triggered in my mind an installment of Spy vs Spy, except wearing campaign hats...

I was totally rotflol when you just had to add "positives and negatives"

oh my - the illustrations are coming to mind now... sabotaged lashing...poisoned coffee over the campfire...patrols being trained as Ninja...

Please forgive me,

Anne in Mpls

Sigh - to revisit a place such as this is like seeing once again a long lost lover. (For me, it is the Belgian countryside with its wandering canals, scattered stone farmhouses and a misting grey that turns it all to an ever-changing impressionistic painting. And the smell of the balsam forests in the rain - can't tell direction from the trees - the moss grows all the way around)

The State Department has a travel advisories website - it's generally pretty descriptive and up-to-date.

http://travel.state.gov/travel_warnings.html

http://travel.state.gov/peru.html

These will give you fairly specific info.

Peace out,

Anne in Mpls