Jeffrey H

Cabins? Yea, it's camping...just ask my wife

Our Council has an old "in-town" Council Camp that is now primarily used for leader training, scout training, weekend camping, and cub/webelo camping. The camp is about 350 acres and summer camps ended decades ago. It's a pretty camp. The camp has been around since the 1920's when it was truly in the country. The city has now grown up around it but there is still a sense of the country when you are there. Our council has committed to keeping the camp due to it's close proximity for many units and it's overall popularity. Upgrades and repairs are already in progress.

I'm familiar with Camp Strake and not surprised with it's demise because of the rich devlopment that is surrounding it. It's hard to see camps go, but if the Council is committed to securing a replacement camp using the funds of the sale of the former camp, then the "pill" little easier to swallow.

AS a youth, I did scouting in a big town (about 25,000) but we were neither "Urban" or "Suburban." Income levels were low-middle to middle income. One of the great advantanges of our geography is we could get out to the country quickly and to our weekend campsite in 15 to 30 minutes and most of the time this was on private land with owner permission. The cost of securing campsites was free and transportation costs were low. The only real cost for us was the cost of food. It was great! Because of our situation, the great outdoors doing "primitive camping" (sorry, no flush toilets and running water) could be enjoyed by scouts of all economic levels because we had a low cost program that was alot of fun.

As for urban and suburban? In our metro area, one can live in the suburbs and be poor. We have some urban areas that are quite wealthy. Whether it's urban or sururban, opportunities to get to the great outdoors and secure campsites nearby (within 30 mintues) that have no city noise or light pollution is impossible. Today, our Pack usually has to drive at least 90 minutes to truly get away from it all. The farther the drive, the more likely we have fallout in participation. This effects scouting for the outdoor experience. Our Council does have an "in-town" council camp that is quite pretty and we do attend occassionally but it's not the same when you can hear freeway traffic during the middle of the night.

"Yep, getting stuff like this paid for is why our families work so hard at the popcorn sale."

Understand. Our Pack has a history of subsidizing the cost of certain events and campouts if we have a very good fundraiser.

"I have no men, they are all at home playing videogames..."

I agree that you have no "men." Focus on those that will volunteer and build a baseline from that point.

Our Pack does not require any parent to stay beyond the Tiger Den age. However, we do have decent parent support for each of our Dens which really helps our Den Leaders. Our Den Leaders are pretty good about asking parents to help out which keeps them around.

All awards (belt loops, pins, etc.) earned by the boys are paid for by our Pack. Awards are paid for through the annual Pack Dues and/or Popcorn Fundraiser.

Generally, myself (CM), the CC, or one our Den Leaders will make a run to the scout shop to pick up the awards. We currently do not have an advancement chair so I (the CM) keep up with the advancement records leveraging on information from our Den Leaders.

Special event patches are also purchased by the Pack if they are reasonable for our budget.

5 months to First Class?

Yes, it's possible but not the norm. We had four boys receive their First Class at a Court of Honor about six months after they joined the Troop. I watched them in action - they worked together, they made it to all Troop/Patrol activities, attended all campouts, and completed the requirements. These guys were alrady accustomed to the outdoors and developed camping and outdoor skills long before they joined scouts. They were ahead of the learning curve in many respects.

Personally, I think 5 months is too fast but it's not my job to add or delete from the written requirements. When I was in scouts, there was a minimum time period that had to be served in each rank acquired.

On average most of the boys in the Troop that are very active will obtain First Class within 12 to 18 months.

"What do you do for new Tigers that joined in June and completed the Summertime activities"

We have one boy in that situation. We will give him the orange Tiger pin. As I mentioned before, what else can we do?

We give the color of the Den they are currently in and not the badge of rank they are currently holding.

We have a boy that joined the Tiger Den back in June and he will be receiving the orange pin. What else would he get? He does not have his Tiger Badge yet but he has earned the Summertime Pin. It makes sense to award him the Tiger color (orange).

"When did it become the parents' responsibility for the scout's uniform? The boys should be taught what the uniform is supposed to look like and left to them to get it right. "

At the Cub level, it is more of a parent's concern than it is at the Boy Scout level. It's common today to see shirts go without patches for months before they are sewed on. Some people use "badge magic" but regret it later and I always discourage the use of badge magic because it stains the shirt if you have to remove the patches.

"I've driven 30 miles out of my way to unlock the church for their den meetings when the Cubmaster was out of town."

It's interesting that you have the key to the church and you are not one of the unit leaders. Regardless of your actual position, you have become a "de facto" unit leader for this Pack and that has the potential to create conflict. Do the parents of this Pack view you as a Pack Leader? Forget about what the patch says on your sleeve.

I agree that the Cubmaster dropped the ball when he left town without coverage from another Pack leader. As a CM myself, I would ensure that Den Leaders had a way to get into the CO or provide an alternative meeting place.

Alot of mistakes are made with the cub uniform because parents don't know or it does not really matter to them. My advice is to do infrequent, polite reminders during Den meetings for those major obvious errors that make the uniform look "out of uniform" with the rest of his Den or Pack (i.e., council strip on wrong side, tiger totem on a Bear, etc.).

I would not "call out" any young lad that does not have any of his patches sewn on. He already knows that. I have an excellent adult Den Leader that did not have any patches on his shirt for an entire year. I never said anything to him about (and I'm the CM) because it did not matter. His uniform still looked good and it had "Boy Scouts of America" on it.

One thing I do when I present an award or rank badge to a scout is tell him and parent where it goes on the uniform. They really appreciate that.

In our Pack, we inform Parents of Council events where our Pack will not take part. However, they can decide for themselves if they want to attend on an individual family basis. Scouting provides many opportunities beyond the Pack-level and I like to at least provide information about those opportunities. Council-sponsored events tend to be more expensive so we are selective what we include on the Pack calendar. As CM and father of 3 children, I do not attend every scouting event due to cost.

Now, that said, I would expect my UC to inform me and our CC that he/she would like to invite our Pack parents to an event. I'm all for a UC promoting a Scouting event but common courtesy dictates that Pack leadership should be informed first in order to prevent possible conflicts with another event the Pack might be promoting.

I understand BSA24's sentiments -

The BSA is primarily youth program, but it is not "all about the youth." Without strong adult support, there is no program for the boys. The BSA spends resources to motivate adults to volunteer, take basic training, take supplemental training, provide award recognition, WoodBadge, Powder Horn, etc. The BSA is very interested (or should be) on how to make the program not just enjoyable for the boys, but also for the adults. Heck, the BSA highly encourages (expects) adults to wear the same Boy Scout Uniform just like the boys.

As for me, I'm not in the program to be a "man scout" but I do enjoy the fraternal aspect of the organization like being part of the brotherhood of Scouting.

As for adults earning merit badges up until 1962, I'm not sure why they discontinued doing that after 52 years of BSA existence, but I'm sure there it was not a "knee jerk" decision to suspend it. During the 1940's/50's, when my grandfather was a Scoutmaster, he earned merit badges along with the boys and attained the rank of Star.

I think 2 to 3 years is long enough. Someone can take the reins without the concern of burnout and enjoy their tenure. The expectation is set among parents and ASM's that the duty of of an SM is 3 years max and succession plans are a normal part of Troop life. When it's time to rotate, the former SM can step into an ASM role or Committee member.

On the other hand, there is great merit with having a long-tenured Scoutmaster (10 years +) who is highly effective and exhibits strong yet humble leadership before the scouts. This person is rare but definitely "Gold" if you have him.

"My question is about what to do with the ranks and arrow points from the blue uni."

I encourage the parents to keep all the ranks and arrow points on the blue shirt. If they move them over to the khaki shirt they will need to remove them when they receive their Oval Webelos Badge.

They have the option to stay in the blue uniform but most elect to switch over by the time they start 4th grade.

"I have seen Scouters load up their calendars with scouting activities to keep them away from home as much as possible. It's a socially acceptable way to avoid addressing the real problems."

I don't know any Scouter that has had a divorce directly related to Scouting, but I do wonder about some volunteers that seem to be at every event, every meeting, every campout, every conclave, every conference, etc. It is a rare marriage that can stay strong over the long-term with a spouse that is always absent.

Scouting can be addictive for those of us that enjoy it but I can tell you that I would not enjoy it for one minute if I had trouble at home that needed attention. Time to take care of the homefront first.

"Pink is for breast cancer, and it's already been done. Rainbow is for gays, and that has already been done too. There's this little knot and a patch you can get: http://www.scoutingforall.org/data/layer02/store.html "

Regardless of a person's political cause or viewpoint, an unofficial knot that can simply be purchased is not in good form to be worn on the uniform. Knots should be official and represent awards earned or honors bestowed by others.

"What does a "Scouts' Own"-type service on an AHG outing look like, and how would the Hindu girl feel? "

I expect that it would be a service of Christian Worship. The Hindu girl? You would need to ask her and her parents how she feels and if she wants to continue. Membership is voluntary.

"My complaint about the AHG would be fixed if they would remove the Christian only overtones and make it the nondescript god that the BSA uses."

If they did that, then they would lose their distinctly Christian identity and they would no longer have a reason to exist. AHG does not exist to provide something that mirrors the Girl Scouts. If you read their history, they were formed as an alternative to the Girl Scout (GSUSA) program.

I'm not knocking the GSUSA. Great organization with great history. Unfortnately, they have suffered in our community due to political stances taken by their National office that are not in alignment with local values.

(This message has been edited by Jeffrey H)

A strange person indeed. A reminder that we all need to be watchful of our surroundings especially at large events where someone can blend-in and impersonate an adult leader. Its a good idea to be particularly watchful of leaders that do not seem to have anything to do and just hanging around (i.e., not on event staff, not with a Troop, not visiting family or friends, etc.).

These are good opportunities to be sociable with others you do not know. Ask them innocent get to know you questions: Can I help you find someone or direct you somewhere? Are you looking for your Troop? So, how long have you been doing this Scouting stuff? If they are phony, too many questions will make them uncomfortable, not look you in the eye when talking, and you could catch them with incorrect or inconsistent answers to your questions.

Honestly, I've never heard of ODD until I read this thread. From what I'm reading here, I don't think I've had to deal with it. Regardless, it's still falls into the category of bad behavior and the rules still apply: Parents must be present for all meetings and outings in order to take care of situations beyond the Leader's control.

I have compassion for kids with real problems but scout leaders are not trained therapist. We still need to apply rules for misbehavior consistently among all scouts regardless of their issues, real or imagined. Therefore, the parents must be present. I have to assume that if the boy is diagnosed with ODD that the parents are receiving professional counseling to manage the situation which again reinforces the need for them to be present.

I'm with pappadaddy on this one...

Recognition at a Pack or Den Meeting would be nice. He did the right thing and he shows concern and compassion for wildlife. I'm pretty sure he passed on some of his Badge Achievements or requirements toward a Belt Loop.

The Nat'l Certificate of Merit I'm sure does not qualify.

From Scouting.org -

National Certificate of Merit: Has performed a significant act of service that is deserving of special national recognition. Note: If the action is deserving of merit but does not qualify for a national award, the Scout may be eligible for the Local Council Certificate of Merit, No. 33732.

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/MeritBadges/honor.aspx

Nothing from prior years is counted including "partials." The requirement says that the belt loop must be earned as a Webelo. If he earned it earlier as a Tiger, Wolf, or Bear, he has to do it again.

Belt Loop requirements are fairly easy and you have an opportunity to do the requirements with the more advanced Webelos age group.

It's a good concept but would not work consistently for our Pack since we are not a feeder Pack for any Troop. I could only see this happending if the boys in our Webelos 2 Den were all committed to joining a particular Troop, then I could see having their Den Meetings at the Troop Meetings if it was agreeable to all.