Jeffrey H

I would tell him that his son is not yet eligible for Cub Scouts. Thanks for applying and we look forward to seeing him next year. Don't make it personal and point out that he lied, just simply state the joining rules for Cub Scouts and leave it at that.

As for his confrontational behavior, I don't have an answer for you that may help since I have never had to deal with bad behavior behavior among adult leaders. I'm sure others will join in that have dealt with such experiences.

Our Pack requires uniforms to be worn at all Den and Pack meetings for all boys and adult leaders. We never say the uniform is "optional." Typcially, if there is a true fianacial hardship, a parent will privately come to us and we will go from there and see what we can to do to help. All of our boys wear their uniforms at every meeting and I never point out and embarass a scout that is out of uniform - I'm simply glad he is there.

From my experience, parents will get their son a uniform if they are sold on the program and their sons enjoy it, even the ones with financial hardships.

Our Pack is not a uniform police and we don't do uniform inspections, but Scouting is a uniformed organization and we want to identify with it as best as possible.

You will get different answers to this one depending on people's experiences. Here's mine.

A weak Cubmaster -

Is not engaged with his Pack.

Does not have a program plan for the Pack.

Frequently cancels Pack meetings or does not schedule them at all.

Is often a "no-show" for meetings and events.

Does not provide any encouragement and support for his Den Leaders.

Does not work with the CC or Pack Committee.

Is an unteachable person and does not believe in training.

Sets a poor example in his personal life for the boys. A person of poor reputation.

Does not know when to step-down when he is guilty of the above.

Cubmasters and Den Leaders are not officially committee members and technically cannot vote on committee matters. That said, a pack committee would be foolish to ignore the concerns of their DL's and CM.

As Cubmaster, I attend our pack leader & parent meetings which include committee members, CC, DL's, CM, and all parents that would like to attend. Decisions are made by consensus and everyone that attends the meeting has a "voice" in Pack matters. I don't remember a time when we voted on anything.

Our policy and procedure book (by-laws) is the Cub Scout Leader Book.

A strong Scoutmaster is one who takes counsel from his peers and weighs the facts. He does not need to be an expert at everything "Scouting" to be effective but has a desire to grow and learn as an Adult Leader. He is an example of the Scout Oath and Law in his personal life - not perfect, but a desire to be consistent. He is a role model for the boys. He knows and understands his limitations and delegates those limitations to his peers. He understands his role as Scoutmaster as a teacher to the Scouts and he promotes and fosters the patrol method and boy-led concepts.

If you can do only one, stay with the Cub Pack since it sounds like you have a few more years there. Your Pack is basically the size of a Den so I would focus on recruiting which is much easier at the Cub level than the Boy Scout level. Boys at that age group deserve a great cub program.

We use e-mail extensively for reminders and upcoming events. If parents do not respond to a request, then that is understood as a No. As we approach the event or deadline, I will send out a final reminder just in case those that want to attend missed or forgot the first e-mail. We dont require an RSVP; we only want to hear from those that will be attending. We usually include the phrase, if you plan to attend, please respond by xx/xx/12 so we can have a headcount. The implication here is you do not need to respond if you do not plan to attend.

If parents dont respond, I dont fret over it. I take that as a NO and move on. As others have mentioned, important events should be planned before school is out for the summer. In our Pack, attendance to summer events drops off more than 50% easily. We still have a fun time, just a smaller group

Our Council has been issuing alot of special CSP's for camping events, recognitions, and FOS. They are official for uniform wear. Let the scout wear it since it's unique and it's an official CSP. As for me, I put them away in my memorobilia box where most of my patches go anyway.

"How do you find balance?????"

I take breaks during different points periods of the year (especially the summer), take my wife and family on family vacations, and I do not pay for the cost of camp for other scouts out of my own pocket. I'm also involved in other volunteer work with our CO church that keeps me from being too busy with Scouting.

I'm the CM and I will not be going to our June Pack Campout. It sounds like fun, but the summer is my extended break period and time to re-fresh. I will attend a couple of Pack events this summer but that will be it. Scouting is a very busy program and one can burn out very easily with all the demands of recruiting, scheduling, planning, dealing with parents (even nice ones), and dealing with district requests. I love Scouting but I must step away at certain points. I find myself at times forcing myself to say "No" because I have to for the sake of my sanity, marriage, and relationship with my children.

As a youth, I was active in Scouts, but I was also very active in Band and other activities. To be honest, Scouting was not my primary interest, but I stayed with it for 4.5 very active years and had a great time and grew personally from the program. I have found that Scouts that are very active in the Troop are also very active in other activities because that's who they are. The same motivation they had when they joined Scouts is also the same motivation that draws them to sports or music or the arts. All Scouts will leave the Troop at some point. My oldest son dropped out of scouts after only 2 years. Was I disappointed? Yes, but he had other interests that included Band and the Tennis Team.

Regarding the football coach comment that scouts are for "whimps and gay men" - I think that is an amazing comment from someone who should know that footbal does not necessarily draw boys that only like girls. We need to look no farther than Penn State.

My neighborhood has a mix of low and middle income families. Uniforming is enough of an issue for some families it will be the "deal breaker" of whether or not they will join our Pack. We are a uniformed Pack and expect it to be worn to most events. If a family or a new leader cannot truly afford one, our Pack will help them get one. The start up costs for a new scout can be expensive if we all remember and look back to those times.

Peoples pride sometimes gets in the way when we try to help and we never see the family again. There is this assumption, in my community at least, that Cub Scouting is a "free program" and we will give away stuff. I'm not sure how that assumption started, but it's out there.

acco40 states: "However, when a family can provide their son with Air Jordans, an iPod and a smart phone complains to me about uniform prices I generally roll my eyes."

Yea, I see this even among the so-called low income families and it comes down to priorities. Our Pack does not view these family situations as a "true need" and we will not provide a free uniform - not even one from our closet. A new blue uniform shirt only cost $24 and that will last up to 3 years in the program ($8/year). Most families folks can afford the uniform even those in the low income category.

One on one contact is to be avoided with all youth except for your own child. YPT should followed inside and outside of Scouting events. Being alone with another Scout that is not your son is never allowed. Arguing over when a Scouting Event begins and ends to determine when YPT is in effect should not be a part of the discussion.

The Tiger Cub age-level is for first grade boys or boys that are at least 6 years old and have completed kindergarten. This is the only age-level in Cub Scouts that requires "Adult Partners" which means an adult/guardian must be present with their son for every meeting and outing. The concept is based on shared leadership in the Tiger Den to allow parents that are new to Cub Scouting to become familiar with the program. Generally, one of the parents will be asked to be a "Tiger Den Leader" which means this is someone who will coordinate the den meetings and outings (it does not mean they do everything or should do everything). After the Tiger Cub years, parents are no longer required to be present at Den Meetings and Outings. However, your involvement and help is always appreciated by the Den Leader of your son's Den.

The answer to your question is "Yes", there is heavy adult involvement for Tiger Cubs. However, your involvement will depend on how often your Tiger Den will meet each month. In my Pack, we have three Den Meetings a month plus one Pack Meeting. In other Packs, dens only meet twice a month. I'm currently serve as Cubmaster of my Pack and I'm a former Tiger Den Leader. I can tell you that the Tiger Den one of my most enjoyable Dens and it's the easiest Den program to do.

Alot of boys do not start until 2nd grade (Wolf) simply because parents do not want to make or cannot make the commitment for Tiger Cubs.

The "boy led" concept is only for Boy Scouts (ages 11 and up). Cub Scouting is "adult led" program for boys from 1st to 5th grade. Cub Scouting is a family based program so adult involvement which includes the leaders and parents is a recipe for a successful Pack.

This link from the National BSA website is a good starting point for more information: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/Cub%20Scouts.aspx

"Our tiger leader doesn't uniform."

At least you have a Tiger Den Leader. As a CM, that would mean alot to me.

My Cub Scout Pack is a uniformed Pack for Den Meetings and Pack Meetings. These little guys will soon outgrow these uniforms so they should wear them as much as possible. Why spend good money on a new scout uniform if you are not going to wear it?

Our activity T-Shirts are worn when an activity or occassion makes more sense to wear them. If the activity puts the uniform at risk of damage or tears, we go with the t-shirts.

Agree about by-laws. There are unnecessary and a waste of time. We already have the Cub Scout Leader Handbook and that is enough.

"What if your lodge has an ugly pocket flap?"

Mine does. I removed my lodge patch recently simply because I did not like it. My shirt actually looks better without it and it also gave me an excuse to start reducing the number of patches on my shirt. I've been a leader for a while and my shirt was starting to look like a NASCAR driver suit.

"john ponz I find it so difficult to believe that you really think that the dribble in your last post has any validity whatsoever,...   However I am willing to bet that you are not even active in your lodge, or if you are that the other adults keep you in line...  Scouters like yourself should restrict yourselves to your own units if only to minimize the damage your kind of attitude causes in the BSA. "

Wow, that was quite a performance in words.  It's okay to disagree and argue on an issue, but to lower the argument to personal attacks is inexcusable.  Further, to attack a fellow Scouter is way beyond me and was quite embarassing to read.  You basically labeled him a liar throughout your entire post.

In our Pack, a new Cubmaster or Committee Chair is often recommended to the Pack Committee, COR, and IH by either the Cubmaster or Committee Chair. Overall, our process is informal: Those that are interested in serving make a request to serve or they are recommended by someone in pack leadership to serve. Recommendations go to the Cubmaster, Committee Chair, and Pack Committee for discussion and consensus. Our COR delegates these decisions to us, but can step in at any time and reject an applicant.

We avoid voting and look for general agreement (consensus).

If you are a brand new Pack or absent of key leaders, then I would expect the COR to be directly involved in the process.

In my personal situation, the former Cubmaster made a recommendation to the the COR and IH that I serve as the next Cubmaster. There were no objections and I began to serve with their approval. As a courtesy, The Committee Chair and Pack Committee were informed that I was a candidate and were given opportunity to express any concerns or objections. There were none.

ParkMan,

It is a balance, but I've found that the more flexibility I give the Den Leaders and their Den schedules, the better our overall Pack program functions. The only thing the Den Leaders need to be aware of are scheduled Pack Meetings and Pack outings/campouts. If a Den has a scheduled outing that conflicts with a Pack event, I never tell a Den that they must cancel their Den event, especially if it's an outing that will enhance their Cub scouting experience.

To minimize any schedule conflicts, I (the CM), the CC and pack committee, try to distribute our basic Pack calendar to the Den Leaders by the before September. We usually have a leader/committee meeting in July or August to finalize the calendar for the new program year that begins Sept. 1st.

I've always believed that the Dens are the "engines" that make the Pack go. The boys are more likely to stay in the Pack if they are happy with their Den programs because that's where their "buddies" are and where relationships are forged.

To answer your question from your OP, our Pack generally has one Pack meeting per month, a Fall campout and Spring campout, Pinewood Derby, and a end-of-school year Picnic in May. Other events could be added later if they fit in an make sense to do. Also, watch out for those Holidays and build in some time-off during the program year to give yourself and other leaders needed breaks.

"With all that being said, My boys will not be involved unless I am a member also..."

Assuming that you are eligible to be nominated, ask your Troop Committee to nominate you to the OA and turn in your name to your local OA Lodge. At a time determined by your local Lodge, you will be "called out" and then will be required to attend Ordeal before you are accepted into OA membership.

If your boys want to be involved with the OA, my hope is they will not have to wait on you for very long. Hopefully, your nomination can be done at the same time as your eligible scouts.

Best Wishes.

At the Cub Level, at least for my Pack, is the Treasurer position. Our CC is currently taking care of this since no one wants it. We don't have trouble finding volunteers for other committee positions, but folks will do anything else but mess with the money. It's also complicated by the fact that the Treasurer position should not really be given to anyone who is "willing." They must be organized, reliable, and trustworthy.

Cubmaster. If they are doing the job well, they are spending countless hours of preparation that does not include meetings, outings, and events. Even if they delegate well, it's still a position that one must be prepared to make a significant time commitment.

Committee Chair. Same reasons as Cubmaster assuming that your Pack's CC is an active position and really doing the job. If a Pack's CC position is more "ceremonial", then there will not be any trouble filling the position even though it's being done wrong.

"This issue is ONLY about wearing the OA sash to other scout functions, it has NOTHING to do with insignia wear."

Read my opening statement in the OP. The OA sash, like our insignia, is informed by the guide on how to properly wear it on or with the uniform. That's all. The guide is silent on when to wear it. I assume that gives freedom to the local Lodges to decide for themselves as a part of their traditions.

Not sure how "old fogey" and "secret society" stuff got pulled into a discussion about the proper wear of an OA sash but that happens sometimes in these forums. I'm 50, a physically active Cubmaster, and not a couch potato. I can tell you this, if the OA was a secret society, I would have nothing to do with it.

This is nothing to get upset about nor is this a hill to die on. I simply have made an obsevation and received responses (much more that I thought!). Believe me, I have far, far more important things to be concerned with than OA Sashes.

"You three may think you have the best interest of the OA at heart but your arguments are outdated, counterproductive, and somewhat anal retentive. WWW "

I'm simply speaking to proper wearing of insignia which includes the OA Sash. If we want to argue the merits of the OA program, what it could be doing better, what it should be doing, or if it should be dissolved, those conversations can be reserved for the OA forum.

"Who cares? Why don't folks just follow the rules - they are quite simple. People rob banks, spit on the sidewalk, wear OA pocket flaps without keeping up with their OA dues and all sorts of other activities that are wrong - some small and some big. Regardless, that doesn't make it right.  Order of the Arrow sashes are to be worn properly or not at all. Properly consists of across the right shoulder at OA events only - period. It is that simple. "

It's nice to know that another Arrowman sees it like I do.  The uniforming guidelines for the OA Sash are straigtforward requiring no interpretation.  Thanks for mentioning the OA pocket flap - I'm a big stickler of that one and agree that it should not be worn if you will not pay the meager annual dues.

We keep track of awards, achievements, and belt loops in our Packmaster software program.  Parents will report to their Den Leaders when their scout has completed a belt loop.  If a belt loop was worked on during a den meeting, then the Den Leader will report the names of scouts that completed.  No paperwork is required other than documenting completion in Packmaster.  In Cub Scouts, Akela signs-off on requirements.  Akela is the Cubmaster, Den Leader, or the Parents if they were completed at home.

Once reported and entered into Packmaster, we go to our local scout shop and purchase the belt loops.  We do not report belt loops to our Council and they do not require it.  The only awards our Council requires to be reported are Rank Badges.

She says they cannot be ordered until all the requirements have been completed. Is this true? You can't order belt loops in anticipation of the boys finishing the requirements?

This is good and prudent policy to have so you dont over-spend on belt loops, but if you know for certain that most of the boys will complete, I would go ahead and purchase the belt loops in time to present them.  This is common practice in my Pack.  If a scout does not complete, we will simply hold the belt loop until he finishes.  Also, our Pack often keeps an overstock of popular beltloops so we dont have to keep purchasing them.