Jeffrey H

It is time for the adult OA members to back off and let the boys decide when to wear the sash for themselves.

They already do this right now, at least in my District.  There is alot more freedom to wear the sash at more functions than there has been in the past.  Personally, I don't really care when the sash is worn.  The uniform and insignia guide says nothing about when to wear it, only how it should be worn with the uniform. 

We traditionally make it a target date to award rank badges to our cubs at our Blue & Gold in late February or early March if they have completed their requirements. If they have not completed the requirements, we wait. I will be presenting a Wolf Badge at our final Pack Meeting in May to a Cub that got a late start in the program year.

As far as Blue and Gold, we usually skip the "banquet" part and plan the meeting before meal time. We provide a cake and punch reception for our graduating Arrow of Light recipients after the meeting, but that's the extent of our food offering. Our Blue and Gold occurs during our busiest time of the year with other events going on and we keep the planning simple.

OK - need some guidance here...Our pack a Cubmaster who somehow procured a Cubmaster knot, sewed it to his uniform, and then asked our Trainer to fill out the paperwork. He has not served his 2 years, is not fully trained, and obtained the knot without District approval or having Council award it.

Talk to him privately if he understood the requirements of obtaining the award.  If he did not understand, then ask him to refrain from wearing the knot until the paperwork is turned in and the award is approved.  We all make mistakes and a little grace is needed here.

If he did understand the requirements but chose to ignore them, then you have a person that practices dishonesty.  Is this the person you want to be the Cubmaster of your Pack?  If the CM lies about earning an award, what else will he lie about?  No one is perfect including a CM, but a CM should exhibit that he is doing his best to follow the Scout Oath and Law.

I'm the Cubmaster of my Pack and we use an advancment tracking software called Packmaster. The advancement chair role in our Pack is really shared among myself and the Den Leaders and we all use Packmaster. We're not a large Pack so the seperate role of having an Advancement Chair is not really required in our Pack's current situation.

The situation with your Cubmaster really goes way beyond being forgetful about buying awards. His mind is obviously somewhere else and it's not really with the Cub program.

I agree with others. Don't talk to him any longer, just take it to the charter organization (CO) and/or commitee chair and let them know of inappropriate behavior. As one mentioned, The head of the CO can remove him without any vote or consensus.

"The first paragraph is a Webelos issue, not a troop issue. The Webelos Den leader or his designees should be the only one signing off requirements. Parents (unless they are leaders or are teaching an activity badge) should not be signing off Webelos requirements."

Agree. A Webelos Den Leader should sign off on the requirements and communicate that clearly to the parents. However, The Webelos Leader, at his/her discretion, can delegate to the parents for signing off on some requirements. Some activity badges, like Traveler, are primarly done outside of a Den Meeting setting while the Webelos is with his family. At a minimum, at leader can ask the Webelo to share his experiences with his Den while earning the Traveler badge.

The Webelos program may be a so-called transition to Boy Scouts, but is still very much Cub Scouts in the way achievements/requirements are signed-off and the way the program is run. If the Webelos are active and show up for den meetings, they will likely complete their activity badges organized by their Den Leader (Adult-run meetings, Adult-organized activity badge classes).

In Boy Scouts it's completely different - a Scout can be very active in the Troop but his advancement can be very slow if the Scout does not take any personal initiative. This is a learning curve that not all scouts adjust to very well and many drop out. Alot of stuff for an 11 year old to take-in: Blue cards, unapproachable new scoutmaster, strange ASMs, boards of review? (huh), strange everything, etc. Finally, very boring Troop meetings. The last one is a very difficult one if the Webelos came from a Webelos Den that had exciting, fun, and meaningful den meetings.

Communication is Key: A troop that communicates poorly to new scouts and their parents regarding expectations is a further recipe for failure and this is a failure of the Troop, not the Scout.

As scout in the 1970's in a small town, earning merit badges and advancing was a bigger challenge for us. We had a very active Troop program with lots of camping and honing our outdoor skills, but advancement was a much slower process for us. In our Troop, a scout who earned Eagle was truly special and admired because he took it upon himself to advance when the opportunities to find MB counselors were challenging. He earned it and it showed. "Merit Badge colleges" were unheard of and we never used Troop meetings for merit badges - never. The philosophy of our Troop was truly advancement at our own pace. By the time any of us achieved 1st Class, we had far better outdoor skills than many of the Star and Life scouts I see today. We were not tested once and then "checked off" on a requirement; we learned from repeated experiences.

The advancement culture is different today. "Get that Eagle or you will not be driving until you are 18" or something similar. I've heard that directly from the parents mouths more than I can count. I have deep trouble with that type of motivation to earn Eagle.

"I'm not looking to pick a fight here but the attitude I see in the real world and here is that Cub Scouts does the recruiting, and Boy Scouts are supposed to be the beneficiaries of 5 years worth of preparation..."

Your assessment is accurate in my part of the country as well. The heavy hand of recruiting is put on the Packs. If it were not for the success of our Pack, a Boy Scout Troop near to us would be struggling. This Troop usually assumes that we will send some Webelos their direction and most of the time that happens. However, this past Spring, none of our six graduating Webelos chose to be a part of that Troop. Why? Because the Troop did not return phone calls or e-mails from the Webelos Den Leader. Not a smart move. If you are a leader with a Boy Scout Troop, part of your recruiting is to maintain friendly communications with a Pack or Packs and also perform the courtesy of at least returning phone calls. Yes, the boys do make the final decision of where they want to go, but a strong WDL that the boys look up to can influence their decision.

As the CM of the Pack, I picked a little friction about this "drama" but I told the offended Troop that the "The Webelos made their decision and you helped them make a decision for another Troop." I have very good relationship with this Troop but I had to be frank with them about their lack of communication skills with our Pack.

Asst. Wolf Den Leader (2005 to 2006)

Bear Den Leader (2006 to 2007)

Webelos Den Leader (2007 to 2009)

Assistant Cubmaster (2006 to 2009)

Assistant Scoutmaster (2009 to 2010)

Tiger Den Leader (2010 to 2011)

Cubmaster (2011 to current)

I have two sons six years apart. I came into the program when my oldest joined as a Wolf and then rejoined the Pack as Tiger Den Leader when my youngest son joined. I became Cubmaster when the top prospect for the position declined and then they asked me and I remember saying "Yes." I'm not sure if I was of sound-mind at that time, but I did say "Yes."

The guide says do not wear the sash on the belt. That's clear to me and I will choose to follow that guideline. Just like I follow the guide to determine where to place insignia on the shirt, I will follow it regarding the placement of the OA sash.

In Scouting, we promote it as a year-round program. That can be a good or bad. The good is there is something always to do. The bad is there is something always to do. The key for leaders, as I'm learning as a CM, is to take breaks at different points during the year. It's okay not to sign-up or darken the door of every event that comes along even those events where I might be "expected" to be there. It's also good to step away from routine meetings for a month or two.

The key is to personally ask parents and leaders for help with the program and don't do everything. Scouting will go forward without me.

The uniforming guide says the OA sash should only be worn over the right shoulder. From the guide it states: worn over right shoulder, under epaulet of tan shirt. (OA sash is never worn on belt or with merit badge sash.)

Interestingly, I see boys and adults in our district wear the OA sash hanging off their belt for COHs or other special events. Im an OA member and Ive politely told some that was not appropriate. The response I get is no response or they dont believe me. Im the only OA member that will not hang it off my belt at COHs. I leave the sash at home and save it for OA functions where I can wear it over the shoulder. The lodge flap is sufficient to tell others that Im a member of the OA.

Do OA members in your council or district do the same? Does tradition buck the uniforming guide?

I follow the uniforming guidlines but there is nothing wrong with sticking a pin on the uniform shirt that represents a significant portion of your service to the boy scouts. Those little pins make great coversation pieces and tell a story about our journey in scouting.

"The killer requirement for most den leaders is either attending x number of rountables or attending scout university...."

Agree, but I will say that our RT's are okay. I like our University of Scouting but it's only one day a year and can be easily missed if there is a conflict.

If I did not have a District, then I would not have a Roundtable, and then I would not be able to "attend at least 4 roundtables for each year" of my registered position.

Joking aside and I will not go into details, but my District provides a good program to our Packs and Troops for our geographic area of our Council. This could not be done without our willing District volunteers with big hearts. We have a good bunch of folks and I highly respect them.

I suppose if a Council were small enough, then Districts would not be necessary, but my Council is large with a 3 hour drive from North to South.

Our Council claims that it cost $175 dollars per scout per year. This is also their suggested minimum donation to Friends of Scouting.

The cost for a Pack or Troop? I've never seen those numbers since they always measure per scout. That said, my Pack should not cost our Council anything really other than possibly tiny administrative expenses for recharter and our unit account at the Scout Shop. The Council makes a 40% profit from our Popcorn sales so I don't think we really cost them anything that's worth measuring.

I have to agree with the opening post. One thing I will say is you should stop giving out awards if the leaders have not filled out and turned the paperwork themselves. Put the onus on them to actually look at the requirements.

I always let our DL's, ADL's and committee members know about the opportunity to earn knots. After that, the ball is in their court.

I have two great DL's but they have not earned their DL knots. They have not been to any Roundtables or University of Scouting. I would love to give them a knot, but the standards are written.

Now, I can petition that someone receive an award if they just "missed" a requirement but came close. In those cases, I don't have a problem asking for a "variance" or "exception." For example, a DL that only attended 2 or 3 roundtables but provides a high quality program for their Den.

The purpose of the awards are to recognize those that contribute to making the program great.

"What would be the impact of this on Scouting and other voluntary youth programs? "

Meetings that are currently scheduled during the weekdays would be negatively impacted. A whole new paradigm shift in the way we do Scout meetings would need occur.

My Cub Scout Pack meets on Sunday evenings so I can assume that we would be okay. However, if all extra-curricular activities become crowded on the weekends because there is no time during the week, we could see overall membership in Scouts negatively impacted. Only those families and boys that consider Scouts to be on the top of their priority list will stay with the program.

We do not graduate Web 1's into Web 2's since they are already Webelos and they are continuing their 1.5 year program. However, we do give them a place of honor as the "color guards" during our den crossover ceremony when we graduate the Tiger/Wolf/Bear Dens.

The help organize a Webelos den is a interesting CM responsibility because Cubmasters should be busy promoting all age-level dens in their Pack, not just Webelos. At a minimum, I think the spirit of this requirement is to remind CMs to be educated about the Webelos program because it is significantly different from the Wolf/Bear level. It is considered a transition period to Boy Scouting. Provide resources for the Webelos Den Leaders including a copy of the Webelos Leaders Handbook a great resource to get them started.

One of the biggest changes for the Webelos is their ability to camp overnight as Den and be separate from the rest of the Pack in that activity. Also, rather than working on achievements, they work on activity badges (pins).

There is already wasted time during the school hours as it is. A student can receive a quality education in half the time of the current schedule if the time is used wisely. My wife is an teacher and she sees the wasted time during the day. Proposing an increase to 5 to 6 o'clock is just babysitting for the parents. With strained school budgets, I don't see how this can be justified on simply cost alone.

Our Council had a "jamboree" in 2010 to celebrate the Centennial year of Scouting. I suppose they had permission to use the term "jamboree" but if they did not, it's too late now.

Our Pack schedules a pack family campout twice a year; one in the Spring and one in the Fall. That's it. We have no council restrictions on the number of times we can camp, this is just what fits best into our Pack schedule combined with everything else that is going on during our Program year including pack events and den outings.

Attendance at our Pack Campouts is small (25% attendance). Three obstacles: 1) Our families do not have an interest in camping as they once did a few years ago and 2) Sports leagues on Saturdays.

It's still "all good" because we provide campouts for those families that really enjoy it (like myself) and expect it to be a part of our program. Those that don't like to camp can still enjoy the other aspects of the Pack program.

beardad said: "...I asked around and had a couple parents take baloo training. I even went and retook it. everybody is all gung ho and want to plan a trip and really excited and kids are looking forward to it, then nothing. nobody can go or a bunch of other excuses..."

As a fellow CM, I can relate to this. There is a huge difference between being "excited" about going and actually making the commitment. I have a few well-meaning folks that say "that sounds like fun" or "I would like to go" but their commitments pretty much ends at the point of their mouths. The ones that are serious don't talk much, they just sign-up and put their money down.

Beavah,

Thanks for the insurance education. Basically, we are simply told that we're covered by BSA insurance for accidents on outings. Usually the information stops there. I did not know that it was very limited insurance.

My favorite "Myth" about BSA insurance is you must wear your uniform in order to be covered.

It may be that this Council has a worse than average history of issues with "Parents Of" CO's. From a business risk standpoint, the BSA wants to partner with organizations that have a history of long-term existence and provide their own accident liability coverage for their meeting place. Sure, the BSA provides insurance but it's a secondary insurance just in case scouts or scouters are not covered during an official scouting activity. In my unit, it's possible I may have a few scouts that do not have adequate health insurance. If they get hurt during a scouting activity, I have comfort to know they are covered.

Being a CO with the BSA is privilege, not a right. The BSA can and should reject a charter org if it is deemed they are an unacceptable risk or some fly-by-night organization with no accountablility structure. The BSA has taken on the responsibility to provide insurance for it's members and needs to partner with responsible CO's that will help share the insurance burden.

"So anyways, here we are: I have a Boy who really shouldn't have been given his AoL. I say given, not earned. "

Maybe, Maybe Not.  Earning the AOL is body of completed achievements and activity badges that goes way beyond the simple rote memorization of the Scout Oath and Law.  Unless his former Webelos DL made him recite the Oath and Law at every den meeting, he is not going to remember them.  He probably did it once to meet the requirement and then it was signed-off. 

It's not much different in Boy Scouts.  Yes, they need to demonstrate that they know the requirements and do them to the satisfaction of their counselor, but once they do them, they are completed.  There is no future re-testing to determine if "they really earned it."

To your question:  The AoL is a Cub Scout level award and the requirements are still under the motto of "Do Your Best."  This is not pencil-whipping the requirements.  A Webelo should demonstrate that he has done his best.