Jeffrey H

Our average attendance at Den and Pack Meetings attendance goes down as well after Blue & Gold. It picks up again after about a month or two. This has always happened in the past. Some of it is due to sports (baseball, soccer) and to some extent parents just need a break from the weekly schedule after a very busy Fall and Winter. I've learned as a leader to "back off" from parents and cut some slack. Scouts is a year-round program and boys can take a break when they need it during certain times of the year. Even as a CM, I build in some personal break times during the year.

All that said about lower meeting attendance, post B&G is my favorite time of the year as we go into Spring and early Summer. This is our time of outdoor events, picnics, service projects, campouts, and Cub Day Camp. We even take in our annual trip to a major league baseball game.

"And what do you call them, "Girls", "Scouts", or some other term?"

As I understand it, only the BSA and GSUSA are allowed to use the name "Scout" or "Scouts" due to their federal charters. Basically, it's a federally protected copyright. No other independent scouting organization in the USA is allowed to use the name "Scout."

Interestingly, in the United Kingdom, independent scout organizations like the Baden-Powell Scouts can freely use the name "Scout."

Trust me I know what should be worn now. But when the CUs came out, everyone in them wore tan and greens. The information was so poorly communicated as to who wore what, that when I heard rumours that CS leaders were to still wear red and whites

Eagle92,

We ran into the same confusing predicament in our Council, but we realize this was a blunder by National. While the policy has now been clarified, we still have Cub Leaders and Webelos in our Council that have wear both colors. Overall, no one really makes an issue of it. IMHO, as long the Webelos boys within a Pack are using the same colors together it really does not matter.

I know a couple of leaders that work with Pack and Troop sharing the same unit number. In this case, I see them choosing to wear the green numbers over the white. They can use the same uniform shirt between programs and simply change out the shoulder loops.

I've never tried them on, but they look good and functional for outdoors. They actually look like a pair of shorts that I would buy outside of scouting.

Our Webelos wear the White on Red unit numbers on their tan shirts since they are still in Cub Scouts. This is the directive we have received from our Council. Basically, Boy Scouts wear the Green on Tan numbers and Cub Scouts/Webelos wear the White on Red. Cub Leaders also wear the White on Red.

Packmaster. I'm the CM and have full access to scouts, leaders, reports, advancement tracking, etc. I'm happy with the program. I'm sure there are other products that work just as well but cannot comment on them.

We pay extra for Packmaster "Dot Net" to provide access to multiple users and limit their security access based on their roles within the Pack (i.e., tiger den leader has access to tiger den only).

"When my husband called the leader to ask questions, he immediately handed the phone to my son. We did not want to talk to my son, we wanted to talk to the leader about what was going on..."

Red Flag.  This was an immature and disrespectful action by the so-called leader.  If I have questions, I expect them to be answered by the person I'm addressing.  Where there is no accountability, trouble is waiting.

I commend your efforts to try and keep a unit alive, whether it be a Venturing Crew or Troop. I watched a Troop die this past month (did not re-charter) because they refused to recruit for many years. It was a shame because they were once a strong Troop an active outdoor program but eventually they lost numbers through attrition. They continued in their final year to allow a couple of boys to earn their Eagle.

"Our SM was a member of the OA in the '80s, an ordeal member who still has his sash. How can he go about re-entering the lodge?"

I was in the same situation when I became an ASM. I still had my Ordeal Sash and Lodge Flap but lost some paperwork and membership card. I contacted my local Lodge and gave them the date of my Call-Out and the date of my Ordeal.

"...But it seems like the AHG is evolving into the BSA's preferred, semi-official program for girls. It seems like the extent of "mutual support" the BSA is provided to AHG is beyond that of many other organizations it supports."

It will appear "semi-official" in certain communities where parents have boys in the BSA who will also have daughters in AHG. When that happens, it's only natural to have the two organizations cross paths and get to know each other. So, I'm guessing in your community the AHG may have a strong prescence. I don't know. However, I do not see "semi-official" with the BSA on a national scale by any streych.

In my metro area, the AHG is so small it has no impact with our BSA local council.

Hi christineka,

I'll follow with a PM later, but will post here in case you can see it and for others to see as well.

Anyone scout leader can conduct or lead the Arrow of Light Ceremony; a Cubmaster is not required. It does not have to be at a pack meeting, but can be in smaller setting. That said, I cannot speak to the requirements of your LDS charter organization. Does your LDS CO require that a Cubmaster conduct the ceremony or can any scout leader do it?

The "Seven Virtues of Light" is a suggested Arrow of Light ceremony and can be found the in the BSA manual "Ceremonies for Pack and Dens". Easy to do, very meaningful, and I've used it many times. You have 2 boys that will be much appreciative. If you need to simplify and ensure that the ceremony is conducted, forget about having a "Pack Meeting" and schedule an AOL ceremony and invite the Pack, family, and friends.

I'm the Cubmaster of my Pack and I did not lead or conduct the AOL ceremony for our boys. It was performed by their Den Leader. I stood by an proudly observed the ceremony. My job as CM is to ensure that an AOL ceremony is planned and if necessary, I will step in and lead it.

I like it, it's fun, but would not wear it permanently...maybe as temporary patch.

1) How much does it cost?

2) Where do you meet and how often?

3) What things do you do besides have den meetings? (my favorite question)

Tiger parents must stay but beyond Tiger we do not require parents to stay as long as we have good coverage. Generally, most parents will hang around, help out, and be there to keep with up announcements.

Quite honestly, some parents need to leave for the meeting hour. Things go much better and everyone is happier. I don't want to lose a Scout over a parent that can't hang around when the program does not require them to be there.

We have Pack Meeting once a month from September to May. We take a break during the summer from our meeting schedule and focus on summertime events/outings. We count Pack campouts, Pinwewood Derby, and Blue and Gold as a Pack Meetings. Basically, anytime the Pack "meets" together.

"...I managed to change our districts policy of dropping off bags the first weekend and picking them up the next weekend to just spending one weekend (Saturday morning) going door to door requesting donations. Our district had by far the most donations and we didnt spend two weekends of everyones time doing it. "

Our Pack will be doing this next year. It is the most effective approach.

These "trail-to-eagle" retreats appear harmless and if they are run well, the scouts will learn alot. However, these types of programs crowd out other activities designed to emphasize the outdoor method. Scouting that resembles a classroom will suffer over the long-term. I think Baden-Powell referred to it as "Parlor Scouting."

I did a google search for these retreats and there are many going on around the country besides Florida.

From my assessment, being in a air-conditioned classroom environment for an entire week during the summer is not desirable. It does not sound like it's "fun with a purpose."

AHG is a fine organization but has a distinctively different mission from the BSA. Both organizations are seperate but nothing wrong with working together on common ideals.

The BSA has a long history from the beginning of working with different faith groups both formally and informally. Nothing new here with the AHG.

The GSUSA is what it is and my daughter has chosen not be a part of them.

I think it's a good move. They will be reducing the number of knots for Cub Scout Leaders by consolidating Tiger Den Leader, Den Leader, and Webelos Den Leader Awards into simply the Den Leader Award. The awards for Cubmaster and Scoutmaster will share the same Scouter's Key knot but a program device can be used to distinguish where it was earned. Basically, in the end, cub leaders and scout leaders will share the same color knots (with the exception of the den leader award) just like it was in former days.

This is the information that I'm getting. If I'm wrong, please correct me.

I became Cubmaster because the former Cubmaster asked me face-to-face. I was not the first person on his list but I know that when the first person said "no", he moved on to me. Personal invitations do make a difference.

Final thought. I was a former ACM with the Pack and was asked about 3 months before he had to step down, so I had some time to think about it and begin a transition.

Ask your CC (former Cubmaster) for help. The CC's job is to ensure that leadership is in place for the Pack and also to take over as CM if the CM position becomes vacant. It would be in the CC's best interest to help you.

Yep, what you have is a great value for an fun event, but I have found that "great values" still will not always do it for families in my Pack. It really depends on the type of event, the day of the week of the event, and if tent camping is involved.

Does your event have a "ballgame only" option. In other words, just come out for the game, have some food and fellowship, and then go home. That might make it more attractive for parents that don't like to tent camp. You did not mention if you are in Cubs or Boy Scouts.

In my Pack, if we do tent camping, the most I could expect in attendance is 25% of scouts because most of our families do not care to camp. If Mom or Dad don't show up, then the cub scout will not show up. Some of our parents work regularly on Saturdays, so any Saturday events are out.

Proposal: Let's shut down Cub Scouts since there is a prevailing fear in this forum that Cubbing ruins Boy Scout Troops.

Pros: 1) Scouting will be fresh, new, and exciting for 11 year olds and could keep them in the program longer. 2) No tired cub scouts and burned-out parents will come to your Troop after 3 to 5 years of cub scouting. 3) No de-programming of former Cubmasters meddling around with idea of "adult-run." 4) Eliminates Webelos that camped "too much" and will not be impressed with your Troop's camping program. 4) I can go ahead and resign as Cubmaster and take a break.

Cons: 1) No Scouting program for younger boys that teaches citizenship and character development. 2) No development of age-appropriate scouting outdoor skills. 3) Taking the fun away for many adult leaders. 4) Removing more than half of the total BSA membership from it's rolls. Depending on your point of view, that could be a "Pro."

Jeff we don't know your situation or experience level.... Have you ever dealt with meddling parents??????? Had a mom walk on the PL running his Patrol meeting when they were deciding their menu.......the CC escorted her from the room. Which led to a heated conversation in the hall....... I know of a Gentleman who teaches SM fundamentals and IOLS....He preaches boy lead, PLS and such......But the reality is he runs a Webelos 3 Troop. By his very nature he cannot let the boys lead. My point......Training is irrelevant.

My experience:  3 years ACM, 2 years ASM, 1 year CM (currently serving).

The troop I served never experienced what you went through because we did not not allow meddling parents.  Parameters for parents and prospective leaders were set up front.  The training I was referring to is practical "hands on" training with immediate Troop leadership, not SM fundamentals and IOLS.

"Jeff, I think it has less to do with a failure to recognize the part Cub Scouts play and the involvement required, but rather that some Boy Scout leaders see Cub Scout leaders intentionally or inadvertently turning Boy Scouts into Webelos III. "

If Troop leadership allows their program to be influenced by cub scout methods, then that is the fault of Troop leadership, not the fault of incoming parents.  Troop leadership should be requiring new adults to be trained in the methods of running a healthy troop program (patrol method, boy-run).  Strong troop leadership with a strong troop committee that understands how a Troop should function will shut-down any intentional attempts to turn a Troop into a "Webelos III." 

I don't care about prestige. But I do care about being talked down to and/or getting condescending attitudes.

Agree.  Those that feel superior should remember that we are volunteers and do not consider anyone our bosses.  The work among us is a cooperative and collaborative effort and there is really no room for superior attitudes.  I solicit and appreciate advice from long-time Scouters and I usually seek it from the ones that are humble in spirit and generous in serving others.  An attitude of self-serving and arrogance really has no place in Scouting.  

Fortunately, our district leadership treats Cub Leaders respectfully and appreciates our willingness to step up.  The ones that treat us respectfully typically are the ones that have experienced Cub leadership themselves.  They also recognize that we feed Boy Scout Troops and we are usually the strongest participants with much of the recruiting in our district. 

"Do you wear blue jeans?"

I have been know to wear a pair. I have also been known to show up at scouting events and meetings in full "civilian" clothing. My preference is if I can't wear the full uniform, then I will not wear any portion of it. Interestingly, I have never been criticized for showing up "out of uniform" for a scouting event. I serve with other Scouters who are graceful and forgiving thankfully. It's a privilege to wear the uniform, but thank goodness it's never a requirement to wear it to take part in a great program.

From a personal standpoint, I don't really care for the look of jeans with the uniform shirt. I don't call anyone else out for it, just don't care for it myself.