JeffD

i agree its with parents - and here are my examples.

estes rockets:

scouts - wow we had a great time launching these last year

parent: "i dont understand why we bought such "CHEAP LOOKING" rockets"

B&G

scouts: yeah!! cake

parent: i dont eat pasta - we need to tell the caterer to put in some chicken dishes (her complaints even caused the caterer to quit and pretty much ruined that relationship)

even responding to emails.... this same parent complained to the group that people need to check their email on a regular basis. all this after sending out a nasty email to the group that i didnt take the time to respond to her requests after a couple of days. the reason i didnt respond - i was in the hospital having surgery those couple days.

i will say it was a breath of fresh air when some scouts from a local troop attended our meeting. i went to pass out flyers to the groups and they told me that this is a job for a scout to do. so there is hope.

local - care to provide a link to the thread?

its a shame when - regardless of the circumstance - someone who seems to very much enjoy scouting is soured by the actions of others. i have been in a similar situation (1 sour leader putting a sour mood on everyone else) and dont wish that on anyone else.

funny how the 'net works.... i got the same packet today also and had the same questions

another suggestion i was given - if using a fake or plastic knife - was to put red lipstick on the knife's sharp edge when practicing how to pass the knife. if the scout got 'blood' on their hand - they weren't quite doing it right.

and whats the frequency of colleection?

our pack currently collects $35/yr per scout at rechartering time or when they first join the pack- from that we pay BSA fee and boys life (which doesnt leave but $13 per scout) so we are looking to make a possible inflationary adjustment

our dens - if they collect dues - only do it as needed for some basic supplies.

yeah - our 3 schools are within a 5 mile radius - theres even another school just north if us (maybe 2 miles) that we dont pull from.

we currently have 1 den per rank (well webelos has their 2 dens for first and second year scouts). 2 of our dens are entirely too large IMHO (15-20 scouts). we have 2 leaders for each of those dens, but they seem to only want to have a single den and share the responsibilities. i have heard some complaints that if we broke down into multiple dens, 1 den might have 7 show up and another only have 2 show up. i disagee - but thats another thread

thanks for the info

discussions coming up lately about growing the pack have made us wonder is there an ideal pack size - or can a pack be too big?

our pack pulls in scouts from 2 or 3 public schools and is about 70 scouts.

thanks in advance

jeff

found out a little more info - they're also interested in supporting a new or existing boy scout troop. also heard mention of supplying a trailer and camping gear. there used to be a troop in the area that folded, and i dont know if they had any involvement in them or not.

just to add something - our DE contacted us about this asking if we would be interested. he knows a little bit about (as lisabob said) we stay out of their way and they stay out of ours. i dont think we would have been contacted by him had he thought we were best served by 'staying put'

the ONLY benefit we have is meeting at the school - though we met there before we were chartered by the PTA and the school principal is the one who doesnt mind us meeting there. so far we have even been unsuccessful in getting a tax id number to save sales tax on awards at the scout shop.

im interested in the link to the 'burning bridges' thread referenced

thanks

jeff

(This message has been edited by JeffD)

what do you do for them?

our Charter Org. is very hands-off (theyre a school PTA) and i feel like this is surely a relationship that is lacking in our pack... though the PTA has told us that they signed the charter since they didnt have to "do any work" and we had our own insurance coverage...

we were recently contacted by an American Legion post who wants to sponsor a pack. so the reason for the question.

TIA

well not to rub it in - but it will be in the upper 70's and maybe 80 this week

the summer is too miserably hot to do many outdoor events (that dont include water) during that time of year... but then again thats just my opinion

it was just over 80 degrees here today... i wish it would get cold enough to at least kill off the skeeters

thanks for the view greg...

in my wolf situation - the scout completed the rank the week after our first pack meeting of this year. its all easy and very possible and i am in no way challenging that. so not many other scouts have really had a chance to complete a lot. our pack didnt start up this year until the first week of october for some reason.

i agree that it would be boring to repeat a lot- and maybe because i do scout stuff with my son (because he begs me to do it) i think other parents are the same way. i just figured this is too early in the year for this sort of thing.

as for the webelos - i got another leader to take care of the boys who are just starting out. so she really has no extra work to do. heck - we even have a science museum that teaches some of the activity badges for scouts. the parents are willing to work with their kids. i am just bothered by the complaining about how much work the scouts have to do (why she complains about the work of others i dont know). i would tell them its a lot of work - but also encourage them to do it and not discourage them.

four score and seven years ago - i memorized it also

LH - PM sent back

thanks

storage would have an effect on track... in the humid south - you wouldnt want to store a wood track in the garage... well not if you didnt want it to warp that first humid summer

then again - someone on snopes might prove me wrong about that....

but at least think of storage for the track.. how you would get it to the venue... and assuming they would last - getting one that means you dont have to rethink this in a couple years..

my uncle told me you never regret buying quality but junk is another story...

for the sake of discussion i understand running it or doing it your way. and i am a big advocate for that method.

i know as a den leader i would also at least try to help ALL of the scouts in the den - not just my own.

...and the wife wondered why i added charcoal to the thanksgiving shopping list...

our pack sold popcorn for the first time and we are making 50%

to get that we needed to attend kickoff, turn in on time, and provide our own prize package

well i was challenged to a bake off by another leader who got one the same time i did - and i think i will use the cinnamon biscuit idea...

do ya smell that???? its the smell of SUCCESS!!! lol

"Participate in a Webelos overnight campout or day hike" (assuming the scout already has his outdoorsman pin) was the requirement. and i will say that i agree with your credit for completion statement. youre right... they dont need to camp - just participate in a day hike.

i was told by someone else that many of the requirements are 'do your best' versus completion. with AOL, the one that came up was the following:

Show your knowledge of the requirements to become a Boy Scout by doing all of these:

Repeat from memory and explain in your own words the Scout Oath or Promise and the 12 points of the Scout Law.

Tell how you have practiced them in your everyday life.

Give and explain the Scout motto, slogan, sign, salute, and handshake.

Understand the significance of the First Class Scout badge. Describe its parts and tell what each stands for.

Tell how a Boy Scout uniform is different from a Webelos Scout uniform.

Tie the joining knot (square knot)

i dont think we need to pistol whip these boys until they know it all - but i also think we will be doing them a disservice when they go to a troop and dont know enough to get their scout badge. and if it says to memorize - it means to memorize. i think they will be in for a big surprise and possibly drop out when they get to a troop and the troop is run in a fashion that requires them to work and not just sit there and get credit

for example - i find it funny how one of the leaders says her boy is ADD and therefore cannot memorize things - but they re in the same tae-kwan-do class and have to memorize (and are publicly tested almost every week) and have no problems with that...

talking about some of this has been a little annoying lately since to me it emphasizes the importance of (good) training - and not just flying through screens on a computer screen and calling that being trained..

had a group of webelos attend a camping event with the local boy scout groups.

one boy has some medical issues and is having problems with his medication. because of this he only stayed at the campout for a little more than an hour. i truly feel bad for the boy and want him to be able to experience the camping with the scout troop.

instead of finding another campout that the boy could actually camp with the scouts - the leader signed off saying he did his best and thats all we need to worry about.

does this also mean if i can say "a scout is trustworthy, loyal, well i forget the rest" that i should also be signed off on that for my AOL? to me i dont see the difference.

i would have rather found an event on another day that works well with his medical treatments. since we are in florida, we can camp in the winter when it drops to a chilly 60 degrees (he CAN camp - just had issues with getting acclimated to a new medicine from what i was told)

no - im not talking about those who wont share their latest gadget with ya - but you ever start seeing a leader that starts to customize towards what they or their scout needs/wants to accomplish?

maybe their boy completed their rank early so they spend den meetings doing ONLY electives when the other 10 boys still have a long way to go.... or their webelos scout is about to earn AOL in a couple months - so those 5th graders who are webelos and just joined scouting arent given as much attention....

in the past week or so ive heard that the wolf den should visit the fire station on their own -afterall, "we arent tigers and dont HAVE to have go-see-its" (how many scouts complain about a trip to the fire department? they also told about how they went to a fire department and it was a short visit so it shouldnt be a big deal for other parents to do.

another one complained about the 'extra' work that would be needed for a few new (and excited) scouts to get their AOL by crossover. and is more worried about the aol award that is going to be made than actually ensuring the boys (that are not her son) get there.

sorry for the rant but geez - this is for the kids - i will gladly take extra trips or help out a scout who is EXCITED and AMBITIOUS to earn something. many kids are more interested in video games than doing something in the real world.

the biggest problem i see with not working out of the handbook is that they may not know everything required and not all of the details.

for example (and i may not be 100% right - but the idea is there) there is a wolf requirement which talks about walking around the house looking for dangers (and this is how it is listed in many of the tracking programs). but the last sentance tells them to visit a firehouse. without the book they may not have this information.

the guide also shows pocketknives as 'appropriate' for wolf and above scouts