JeffD

thanks for the help in my previous post about needing help on choosing a dutchoven.. the first out was a success and i am now going to soend more money on stuff for thi dang addiction....

plus many people loved my first cobbler (cherry/pineapple dump using a lemon cake - pretty darn tasty)

Oak Tree wrote - I guess we're just a litigious society. But boy, the topic comes up a lot more here than in real life. My observation that any thread can turn this way still holds, but I should definitely have given it a different name, analogous as it is to Godwin's law. Not sure I can give credit to jeff, though.

I never claimed to come up with the idea - just came up with the name for it Besides, Jeff's law has a nice ring to it

"Jeff's law states that for every scouter discussion, there is a direct correlation between the length of the conversation and the possibility of losing BSA insurance. "

our unit had about 30 scouts who sold popcorn and 6 filled it up and 1 sold 24

this was our first year selling popcorn and i think it went fairly well

to answer my own question so far - heres a nice link i just found -

http://usscouts.org/bbugle/bb9808/bb9808wit.html

Anyone have experience teaching this to their scouts? since we meet at a school, this cannot be taught at our regular den meetings so we will try to do it at an upcoming camp out.

i have seen the requirements so i am looking for the 'above and beyond' things that have helped get the safety portion across to the scouts or anything else that might help.

currently doing some more google searches to see what i could find - but this is the place where most of my tips seem to come from

thanks in advance

"it would be a better idea is to have the Den Leader put together a variety of ideas and then have the boy vote on their favorites. "

i agree with this. i meant if the slide was something that interested them - and was more personal to them - they might like it much more. we still have scouts wear their one they made for last years PWD this year.

my son took a giant sharks tooth and uses that one - it gets lots of stares from new scouts and parents alike..

eagle pete - i dont think i will ever regret buying quality equipment

i am always looking for deals and sometimes try to make cheaper work (i know the whole thrifty thing - but sometimes it can be taken too far ) harbor freight has a 10" one for $13 - though some of their stuff is strictly 1 time use only

i have already been challenged to a cooking challenge by another leader who attended baloo with me - she got the same dutch oven, and is as excited as i am to start trying this out. loser cleans up

eagle pete - i dont think i will ever regret buying quality equipment

i am always looking for deals and sometimes try to make cheaper work (i know the whole thrifty thing - but sometimes it can be taken too far ) harbor freight has a 10" one for $13 - though some of their stuff is strictly 1 time use only

i have already been challenged to a cooking challenge by another leader who attended baloo with me - she got the same dutch oven, and is as excited as i am to start trying this out. loser cleans up

maybe too obvious - but why not ask the scouts what they would like for them?

well now ive done it - theres a 12" lodge logic for just under $40 thats on its way to my office as we speak.

oak tree - as for goodwin's law and dutch ovens (dont want to touch that one with a 1000' pole...combining hitler and ovens)

lets call it jeff's law.

jeff's law states that for every scouter discussion, there is a direct corelation between the length of the conversation and the possibility of losing BSA insurance.

my wife went to law school and worked for quite some time in a personal injury firm - i have ALWAYS been one to err on the side of caution for legal reasons. many things i would assume were common sense, its hard to believe you need to tell people to not do something..

to me - it would be a shame if the scouts in our pack thought you could ONLY cook on your coleman camp stove. since i have been in the pack - i think i have seen scouts try 1 time cooking themselves (foil pack) and we are a pretty active pack when it comes to camping. i dont recall even seeing a webelos scout prepare lunch for themselves any other time. it was usually mom or dad cooking and calling them over.

the one bad thing about this thread, is i think i will need to buy more than 1 DO to be able to have dinner and dessert going besides, its still in the 80's here and i cannot wait for cooler weather

you mean sometimes "common sense" guidelines can apply

ok the cubs cannot cook but does that mean that i am also excluded from cooking my personal or family's meals this way? or did i miss the part about being relegated to lunchables and juice boxes?

1) What type of Den do you lead, or are you a Pack level Scouter, or are you a District Scouter supporting Cubbing?

currently CM - but i was a tiger leader last year. i am also pretty involved in helping the wolf den this year

2) How often does your Den meet during September to June (or your local school year)?

1x per week - usually last meeting of the month is a pack meeting

3) How often does your Pack meet during September to June (or your local school year)?

last meeting of the month is the pack meeting - our whole pack meets at the same location and on the same night

4) What kinds of summertime activities does your Den or Pack participate in (Day Camp, Family Camping, 4th of July parade, August swim, Webelos Camp...???)

summer was slow for us this past year - being in Florida - we actually have more events in the fall/winter since the summers are usually brutal. but we try to have 1 event per month in the summer, attend zoo, picnic day, local attractions are what we try to do.

i love to cook. i cook most nights at home and have been known to use my camp stove to make some pretty neat stuff. (i think i was the first person to make crepes at our campouts..)

my son is a cub scout and i recently took the baloo training. they talked about dutch oven cooking and i dont recall ever cooking with one as a scout. our pack goes camping about once per month and this is something i want to try so i had a few questions about which one to choose.

most likely i will be cooking for just 2-4 people but i dont want to be limited to only this amount in case i decide to cook for more. our pack generally has everyone cook for themselves and they are on their own for a menu.

what size should i get?

i know lodge is a good name for cast iron - but are others with similar features a good buy also? for example - Cajun Cookware Seasoned Cast Iron Camp Pot W/ Legs - 4.5 Qt. - $20

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000EWAQUS/ref=ord_cart_shr/103-4034173-6211850?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=A2RD94HAYE44NQ&v=glance

compared to the Lodge 4-Quart Camp Dutch Oven

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004S9HF/ref=wl_it_dp/103-4034173-6211850?ie=UTF8&coliid=I3UQY8VM6N4XE9&colid=1XO9IEPOFC2SF

or are these too small to even consider? thanks in advance

especially when you consider my other thread about the pseudo-step-parent and his fiasco

i forgot to add - that since the progress towards ranks were recalled for the wolves - we came up with a custom one made from the leather rounds and stamped with the wolf and bear heads... ill try to upload a pic sometime soon

well - this was my first real pack meeting as a cubmaster - and being able to run things like i wanted to try..

flag ceremony went fine - the same kid who also says something goofy - still did it but its nice to see him coming out of his shell.

i made a bobcat brew (dry ice and water in a cauldron) and added all the 'ingredients' to make a bobcat.. salute/motto/handshake/ etc etc etc and invited all of the new bobcats up to the stage to be recognized

told one of those goofy audience participation stories where they yell stuff out when you say a word - they all really liked it and it got some good laughs

dens gave out their awards - no problems that i heard yet.

i even got to walk a new tiger cub scout through the requirements for his tiger totem - and he felt pretty darn good over that. plus he had met the scouts at a show and sell for popcorn and had been reading the tiger book for about a week.. so he was ready..

to top it off - i am always rushing to the meetings and have a hard time getting something to eat. so i got my favorite pizza joint to donate some pizza, we bought some drinks, and made just under $100 for the pack (were trying to save up for a new derby track and electronics). bad thing is i didnt eat any b/c i was so rushed with other things

one scout didnt sell any popcorn - so he wrote the pack a $50 check. we didnt ask (though they did in the past) its nice to have them realizing the work we are putting into it and donating that way.

and finally - it looks like our popcorn sale will be rpetty decent for our first year.

i think we have a resolution....

letter from council states the pseudo-step-dad must NOT participate in or attend any scouting meetings, activities or other pack functions.

violation is an immediate removal of the son from scouting.

our parents are more at ease

the boys remain in scouting and get a great scouting experience

this dad can do all the camping/fishing/hiking he wants with the rest of his family - just not on pack time.

i also convinced the 3 leaders to come back to the pack. their roles are changed slightly - as are their attitudes - but i think its a good thing overall.

its something else what can happen in a week in the life of a pack

our did a deal for this month where both kids got a kit from the council shop and the scout got a recruiter patch if the new boy joined. we have only filled 2 of these so far but tis brand new

our campout was canceled and 56 people had to be informed of this. the family even told the leader who informed them that they would show up to the site anyway and sue everybody if anyone from the pack was there. (i guess everyone earns a law degree in prison)

i have had some parents tell me that they will quit the pack or not attend events if this parent can show up.

3 leaders have already decided they dont want to deal with this parent and have left the pack. even though council and national are involved - i feel they dont realize how fast things are deteriorating.

it seems that the law is on their side in that you cannot tell someone that they cannot attend a campout - but they can attend a pack/den meeting.

threatening comments were made to me - and i didnt like the very aggressive tone towards me and my wife didnt like getting some strange phone calls either. these were even done to a district executive, and from what i have been told - they were likely worse than what i was exposed to.

his probation officer isnt to thrilled that he is causing all this trouble - but i dont think its enough to violate the 10 years of probation this person is under.

yes, the council is involved, as is national, and i am still waiting on them as i have been told to hold tight. meanwhile i wonder how many more scouts/leaders/volunteers/good parents i will lose. i really feel sad at all of the trouble this one family has caused.. and this person is not even the father/ step father to the boy. he is simply the boyfriend of his mom.

God forbid a scout is held upside down while getting bobcat - and your butt could be thrown in a sling for that - but lets make sure we dont discriminate and allow a convicted felon on probation with several drug arrests, strong arm robbery arrests, domestic violence charges, who has made threatening remarks to leaders and district executives, around our kids. something is wrong here

scotteng - i agree with your statement. this kid does need scouting. we have no problems with mom taking him on the camp outs.

my latest problem is after explaining the district view and the camping restriction - he became very combattive and argumentative with me.. saying that I "didn't own the campground" and its "public property and he can go there is he chooses". like many here - we don't want confrontation and strife in an event that should be fun for all involved. from the way he was talking to me - i am hoping this will all be a non-event and nobody will have issues.

honestly - i applaud him for wanting to be an active and hopefully positive part in his kids life. the loser in this is not us or them - it will always be the scout.

(This message has been edited by JeffD)

That is where I got the idea from -You brought it up!!

Eamonn.

But like you said - "I''''d be very careful about quoting acts and laws without having got the advise of people who really know what they are talking about."

part of the lunsford law has a moral turpitude clause which does not allow those convicted of felonies from being on school grounds in certain situations. this applies even to delivery people and other workers contracted by the county. our meeting place is a school and their rules would trump anything we have (for instance - we cannot do whittling chip at a den meeting since you cannot bring knives to school). i was wondering if a parent who is a felon and convicted of a crime involving moral turpitude (the drug charge and robbery conviction would fall into this and i believe the domestic violence would too). part of the confusion is that jessica lunsford was killed in my state. there is also a federal law with the same name. that is the reason i didnt know if all of it was national or just state.

i just want people to know the correct arrest and charge information - sorry for my rambling

*****complete side note - please skip if you want to stay on topic**** i have much of my knowledge of this from my wife who was working with this locally with the jessicas law. there are local laws which state a sexual predator cannot live within 1000'' of a school or day care. the loophole in this law is that the sexual predator must be under probation for this to be enforced. we had a man that raped a girl between the ages of 12 and 14 with violence. becuase he was not under probation - he was allowed to live across the street from a school and there is nothing that could be done when he sat in his back yard and talked to the little kids who were walking to school.

What if the guy was no longer on parole and no longer needed permission to be away from home overnight?

which was one reason i brought this up for discussion.  playing the ''what-if'' game only helps those who are not currently in my situation. its easy to say what you might do - but you never know when or how you could be put in this situation. i am only hoping that others can think about this without having to deal with it. 

What if the guy had been is trouble years ago but had turned over a new leaf?

he was released from state prison 4 months ago. by virtue of his repeated arrests - it can be reasonably inferred what his recitivism rate is. if history is a factor - he has gone no more than 6 months without an arrest for robbery... unless you count the time in prison. do you like those odds?

for the kids sake - i hope he has turned over a new leaf. i hope he no longer beats the crap out of his girlfriend/wife.

Maybe some investigation into the life expectancy of a child molester put into population at any prison would be helpful. Felons dislike them every bit as much as other citizens

once again - this person did NOT commit any sex crimes.

Even though this guy might have a criminal record as long as your arm wrongly suggesting that he is guilty of child sex abuse might be grounds for an law suit against you, the CO and maybe the BSA.

there was NEVER the suggestion that the person was involved in child sex abuse... i have no idea where you got that information from.

wow - a lot of entries since i posted last..

John-in-KC I forget if you are Committee Chair or Cubmaster??? CM

If you are either of those persons, the next TWO people to take this issue to are: - Your Chartered Organization Representative. - Your District Executive.

Already made calls to the DE this morning and we have spoken on the matter. He has said the person is DQd from being a leader and is not allowed to attend anything but den/pack meetings and district events.

If you are any other position in the Pack, then this challenge needs to rise to your CC or CM. Keep this matter a close circle. No leader in the Pack needs an invasion of privacy lawsuit. Scouting doesn''t either under its liability policy.

Agreed which is why any information discussed was obtained from public information sources.

some other things I would need to take into consideration: 1) does the boy have another parent/guardian who can come to meetings and outings instead of the felonious father?

The boy in question is a tiger cub. There are a couple other boys that I know are related, but do not know if they are brothers or cousins.

2) would you know anything about his record if he hadn''''t volunteered the information in the first place? I think he does deserve some points for disclosure.

If the question is have I performed background checks on all parents? The answer is no. he called to disclose the information at which time I looked through public records for, as Paul Harvey says, the rest of the story.

3) is the father the boy''''s legal custodial parent?

I dont know for sure  he says he is the step-father and told me that he has been around the kid since he was 1 . i dont know of any legal relations

It seems quite plausible that the parents may be divorced under the circumstances, and one would hope that the mother would be in a better parenting position than the father. What is her role in this, and does she do anything to support her son''''s involvement in scouting?

Considering the previous charges and convictions of domestic violence, I would question her judgment when it comes to the well being of herself and the child.

we even had a den leader wonder ifwe should be worried when we bring in popcorn money.