JeffD

he was never being considered as a leader. all this came up because part of his probation states he cannot be away from home after 10 PM. he wanted a letter saying that he would be at the camp out with us. since i have never seen the guy (the den leader just met him) i couldn''t even pick him out of a lineup.

the nice thing about our county is that you can search county arrest records with only a name as well as court dockets. so i can not only see the arresting charge - but also determine the convicted charge (if a plea deal was entered)

subtitled - scouts and felons and probation officers - oh my!!

so we just had a request from a parent to write a letter for his probation officer so that he can attend a pack camping trip this weekend. though my gut feeling is an immediate NO - i figured i would take the info to our DE to find out how this has been handled in the past.

the father volunteered some information about this arrest. that it was a non-violent robbery and he had served his state prison time. armed with a name and DOB, i was able to look at the local sheriff''s office arrest history. the most recent arrest, which led to his state prison time, seemed to tell another story.

here are the charges for which he served the most recent stint in jail - BURGLARY OF DWELLING WITH ASSAULT OR BATTERY (FP), ROBBERY (F2), POSSESSION OF DRUG WITHOUT PRESCRIPTION (M2). (items in parenthesis represent a Felony or Misdemeanor).

since 2003, he has been arrested in our county 3 times per year for things ranging from drug possession, domestic violence, strong arm robbery as well as a couple other items, multiple times. he has now been out of prison for 4 months.

though the kid could clearly benefit from POSITIVE male role models, i wonder if he should even be allowed to participate. recent changes to the Jessica Lundsford act (i dont now if this is a Florida thing or National) prohibit those convicted of crimed of "moral turpitude" from being on public school grounds: which is where our den/pack meetings are held.

interested in your thoughts on the subject

we had a leader send out the following

"To all parents: Please read the enclosed recall carefully. If your scout has the progress towards ranks totem, please throw it away."

since no scouts had received it this year - and assuming those who received it prior were part of a safe® batch - i am just waiting for the panic emails to start

so is that why it also took a few months for boys life to start showing up?

you hate having to explain why things are delayed...

my thinking is this...

my son has no idea where his neckerchief slide is that we bought at the beginning of the year..

he knows EXACTLY where the shark tooth one we made this summer....

they appreciate and enjoy this part of scouting

personally, i never understood - why not recharter at the beginning of the school year? (our group is cub scouts btw)

it seems like the switch will benefit the council (dollar wise) since those who dont recharter in january - wouldnt they then need to recharter in order to complete their rank for that year? (assuming they didnt earn it before then)

Our unit was told by our DE that he would try to have our unit rechartered in January instead of the usual March timeframe.

Since our scouting year is just getting started, our new scouts are paying the prorated price from September/Octoboer through March (7 Months). and since we rechartered in March of last year - all of our returning scouts are ''paid up'' through March.

Why would units change the rechartering date?

When he talked about it - he mentioned just paying the $10 per scout BSA fee - which would mean we overpayed for the current year since we are paid through March - but i am sure i will have fun explaining how 90 days after they joined - they need to pay for next year.

So with the recall (and the fact we have a number of scouts that should be receiving this in a couple weeks at the pack meeting) I was thinking of an alternative to use.

maybe start with the leather rounds. run a loop of lacing at the top so it can be held on the uniform by the pocket button (much like some of the patches I have seen). then run 2 lengths of leather lacing to hold the beads

here is a pic of something similar... (cub scout day camp one)http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/images/05NDC/images/17499.jpg

thanks for the reply - i am an even bigger advocate for training as i have seen what a lack of training can cause.

i agree it is an easy course to do - i just wanted to pass along the CORRECT information to our other leaders and make sure we are trained.

I picked up some of the TRAX spreadsheets and decided to also get the leader training one. in there, it says that the youth protection training is only good for a period of 2 years.

i know a spreadsheet shouldnt be relied upon - but i cannot find anything about this in other training materials.

though its good to get a refresher on some of these courses once taken - which ones expire and which are good for scouting life??

check with your district office. many will have a sort of scholarship for these families.

in ours - they supply the uniform for the kids - ask the pack to waive any pack fee - and encourage participation in the fund raising as well as parent participation in the pack (helping den leader etc...)

also look at the belt loop requirements as many also have a step where you need to display something at a den or pack meeting.

jens3sons - though i saw how yours does it - it was at training where people mentioned prizes for their packs. and since youre in illinois, and i am about 1400 miles away from you - i doubt we were talking

my reasoning for the thread wasnt to chastise or praise anyone - just thought it was an interesting point of view

i had an interesting conversation about this where one pack had a playstation for their top seller - another was using bikes - and others had boom-box radios.

one person there said he was against having prizes for the top seller(s) that were above and beyond the trails-end prizes.

intrigued, i asked his reasoning for not having a top seller prize... to which he replied "cub scouts stresses to DO Your Best - one kid''s best may be to sell $200 in popcorn, another may be $2000. if the parents of the $2000 scout did all of the selling - and the $200 scout did it on his own, which one did his best?"

made me wonder if a separate grand prize for top seller is the right thing to do. i am sure many packs do it where the top seller might get another prize - but am interested if this might make you think about how its being done.

like the title says - looking for a skit of sorts that can be done with just the leaders. what have you done that has worked?

thanks in advance

and for arguments sake - all of the fund raising money goes towards scout events like camping, blue/gold, rocket launch etc etc etc

Ed - what i think you are missing is the fact that the scouts are being charged by either way this is done. its just a matter of how you perform the accounting of it all.

previous method - boys life and prorated bsa dues at beginning of the year - scout does not participate in any fund raising to help the pack and buys award for $2. i already know your feelings on this one.

currently stated method - $25 pack fee at the beginning of the year - after all of the other expenses for the scout (boys life and prorated bsa dues) there is a certain amount to work with for awards after other known expenses. lets say its $10 from the amount allotted for awards and recognition. so if a scout earns their rank for the year, and nothing else, they just paid $10 for a $1.50 patch. did we then overcharge them by $8.50? it could easily be inferred that the pack ''profited'' by $8.50 from the scout. but, since its given at the beginning of the year in the form of pack dues, its okay?

heres an update for all (who care )

we are selling popcorn this year. since it is our first year doing so - and we met other requirements - we qualify for the 50% commission.

we are looking at some additional incentive prizes to help motivate some kids to participate more in the fund raiser - think bike from walmart or something similar

participation in the fund raiser is not required and our pack fee is set at an amount to cover (hopefully) everything for the scout per year (awards - derby - rockets etc...) - its $25

theres no min. amount to sell and no buy out option - but this goes back to the prizes and/or incentives.

those that dont sell squat - well we will just have to make sure they are in the vast MINORITY. i agree with lisabob that our problem has been in participation. it has also been fairly stagnant (imho) to new ideas and creative thinking. this is something a couple of the newer leaders and i are working on.

any other suggestions?

[And the tax reason doesn't fly. Awards from a Scout shop for units are tax free. ]

- not without a tax exempt number/certificate. and the tax wasn't given as a reason for the money - it was given b/c without a tax exempt certificate - we pay tax on every purchase.

[Determine your expenses, then set your per capita revenue requirements. How the Scout and his family (any of the programs) meets the requirement is their business. The job of a select few in the unit is to know who can afford it, and who cannot. You help (A Scout is Helpful) those who cannot. IF you like The Pack helps the Cub Scout Grow... same principle.]

- this is pretty much what was done. as stated earlier this amount was $50... with over half of our scouts NOT participating in fund raising last year. there is only so much that any person can be expected to give

[As it is, you're now running a FOR PROFIT BUSINESS by selling the BSA merchandise over cost. I actually hope someone from National Supply Division reads this. I would hope they have terms and conditions of sale.]

- you're right - and with all of the profits we made, i was almost given 1/10th of the $500 or so i pulled out of my pockets to buy the pack rockets and engines and other equipment to have a fun launch day. and if national supply does read this - maybe they can tell me why they were much more expensive than other places for buying the rockets... i was thrifty and bought elsewhere.

and the profits for me were having all of my scouts telling me how much fun they had - telling me how they want to do more events that i ran. the profits i received from the pack cannot be deposited in ANY bank.

[And Heavens to Betsy, yes, I've opened my checkbook to help out my Pack, and the Troop, and the Crew, when extra $$$ were needed. I don't know of too many of us who have not.]

- agreed... i know how much i have opened mine and helped the pack. having been involved in the finance part of the pack for about the time of this thread now - i was simply looking for how other packs handle things. you dont need a merit badge to know that you cannot spend more than you take in.

ideally, leaders wouldn't have to dip into their personal funds to finance most all of the events - scouts would benefit from a program where they didn't have to hock their wares at every opportunity. with year-round sports (3 seasons per sport on average - even at the youngest ages), and multiple school fund raisers every year - i think everyone is sick of being hit up to buy something from little johnny next door.

Why does the pack get the 41 pennies from those who don't participate but those who do pay 41 pennies less? The awards cost the same regardless.

are you suggesting that scouts should just pay their $10 BSA fee and us leaders just buy awards and such for them out of our pockets? every pack doesn't have the luxury of a robust savings account.

for those who didn't participate in any fund raising for the pack - they paid about 41 cents to the pack for the award (we didn't have a tax id number from the CO). those who participated (and helped to make the pack go...) didn't buy awards.

we probably could have done like pack212 does - and charge a much higher registration fee, but about $10/scout is what the pack gets after all other items are paid out.

"Also, what happens when she crosses her son in March? Is she planning on going with him? Will her 4th grade Webelos den be left high and dry without a leader? "

agreed... one of my first goals is going to be finding another leader for the W1 group. even though we havent had others recharter - i dont see her son being the only W1 in the den. and theres no reason the others should suffer because of it.

or - if they all get on the 'fast track' and finish up more quickly with her son - that might have other impacts down the road.

mind you - i dont know the scouts exact age - was just told by his mother that he was the same age as the older kids.. so i need to find this out.

hey - i brag about my scout whenever possible - so dont worry about that... sometimes parents dont brag enough about the good things their kids do

thanks for the responses. i see that about at least being 10.5. and since it is doable - i would have no problems making sure the scout earns all he can.

like some others - i dont want to see the program cheapened and requirements relaxed just so a boy can move with his friends. but thats just my opinion to be argued in another thread

I have a W1 scout who is the same age as the W2 scouts. his mother (who is also the DL) said that he was going to get his webelos and AOL by 3/08 to cross over with the other boys his age.

since theres a 3 month req. for them to earn rank, and an additional 6 month req. to earn AOL. their timeline is impossible - at least with my math, since our first den meeting of the year is 9/26/07.

i let the mother know that it is not a requirement to earn webelos or AOL to enter BSA - but just feel like this is going to be a problem somehow.

anyone else ever run into this situation?

personally i think theres other issues. i joined the pack last year as a tiger leader. when my son earned his bobcat - i am still upset at how they were all awarded their rank (the pack would just call the scout up and hand them the award) because of that - i found a ceremony online so when my kids earned tiger - they remembered it. they love the magic color-changing water from the scout reservation... time to find something new for this year. after i did mine - everyone else used it also.

i still remember being held upside down when i got my bobcat at mcgaughey elementary's cafeteria - i know this isnt how its done anymore - but the scouts deserve more than a little clap.. im still proud of my participant pinewood derby ribbon for the 'blue flame' as i named it back then.. end of rant...

im way off topic now but i think theres other things that can and need to be done to help this out. i would love to sit back and enjoy scouts - but i dont mind working to make the program as memorable for my scouts as it has been for me.

my den rocked. we had 19 tigers to start the year off. we ended up with about 15 rechartering... and 1 or 2 didnt yet because of family issues (divorce and dont know if they will live in the area this year). our group had the largest participation in the sales and those that were pay/go were the ones that didnt end up rechartering or were truly not interested in scouting.

"hey, if your boy doesn't earn any awards then you don't have to pay anything! "

this makes sense and i agree.

as for knowing where the money goes - i would also agree. i think sometimes the leaders dont know where the money goes and that if we earned more - we could subsidize more events. i would love to be able to get cool electronics for our derby track (or even a non-wood derby track that could be stored where you didnt worry about the florida humidity warping it)

of the current group of leaders - i am the only scouter who was once a scout. i truly care about scouting and hope my son stays as excited about learning as he is right now. (he bugs me almost daily to go over some of his wolf requirements - how do you curb that much enthusiasm? i say you dont.. but thats another thread). all of the leaders are trained - but it doesnt seem like theres the willingness to do things differently. i am trying to find out how to get the other parents as excited about the program as my parents are. if they are excited - then they work harder to make things better.

sorry for the dissertation - but i seem to have a lot of scouting stuff on my mind lately