infoscouter

Although many of the Pack Organization charts don't show them, it seems that it's O.K. for Tiger Dens to have Den chiefs.

I just taught the new CS leader training syllabus this weekend, and taught the Tiger Leader section. The syllabus specifically talks about Den Chiefs for Tiger Dens.

Our pack pays for them. They are part of the program and so we budget for them. I know of packs who will not pay for a second (or subsequent) beltloop, but we even pay for those.

emb021 - Where does one obtain the referenced "nice wooden nametag"? I'd like to order one.

The online Den Chief training is "Fast Start" training, just like the online fast start for other positions. To be fully trained a Den Chief must complete the four hour course. Upon completion of the course, a Den Chief should be awarded a Trained strip.

The syllabus is an item which much be purchased from the Supply division. Check your Scout Shop. It's a small pamphlet, and not extremely expensive.

My district offers Den Chief training, as does our council. But both are large and well staffed by volunteers. Many Scouters may not be in districts or councils where this is the case.

A Scoutmaster has always been able to administer the Den Chief training for youth in his unit. If a Scoutmaster does so for an existing Den Chief, I would suggest having the Den Leader with whom the Den Chief is serving, attend as well. This will help them both have a good working relationship.

Some Important Points:

Paying your own way. This is a fundamental principle of the Boy Scouts of America. It is one of the reasons why no solicitations (requests for contributions from individuals or the community) are permitted by Cub Scout packs. Young people in Scouting are taught early on that if they want something in life, they need to earn it. This principle is among the reasons that adults who were Scouts are found to have higher incomes. The finance plan of any pack should include participation by a Cub Scout in a regular dues plan.

An annual pack participation fee, too often completely contributed by parents, does little to teach a boy responsibility. The unit's entire budget must be provided for by the families, either through fund-raising or other means such as dues or fees.

and

Will the fund-raising project avoid soliciting money or gifts? The BSA Rules and Regulations state, "Youth members shall not be permitted to serve as solicitors of money for their chartered organizations, for the local council, or in support of other organizations. Adult and youth members shall not be permitted to serve as solicitors of money in support of personal or unit participation in local, national, or international events."For example: Boy Scouts/Cub Scouts and leaders should not identify themselves as Boy Scouts/Cub Scouts or as a troop/pack participate in The Salvation Army's Christmas Bell Ringing program. This would be raising money for another organization. At no time are units permitted to solicit contributions for unit programs.

http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/resources/packbudget.aspx

I noticed when I read the article in the magazine, and this thread reminded me. There is a statement which says that training is available online. Has anyone found this yet? I haven't seen it in the Online Learning Center. Maybe it's on the ScoutParents site?

http://www.joann.com/joann/catalog.jsp?CATID=cat2853&PRODID=prd3162&source=search#select

This is too narrow to cover a position patch, but you could use strips. I have seen wider versions at both Hancock Fabrics and JoAnn Fabrics.

Safe Swim rules do not require a BSA lifeguard. They require qualified supervision. A BSA lifeguard is one way to provide that. However, if a trained lifeguard is not available, a strong swimmer may be designated as a lifeguard.

" For unit swims in areas where lifeguards are not provided by others, the supervisor should designate two capable swimmers as lifeguards. "

Most Cub Packs are going to go swimming at a public facility where lifeguards are provided. In that case, the leaders need to know the Safe Swim principles in order to make sure the event is conducted according to the BSA's standards, which may be different from those of the pool.

"If the swimming activity is in a public facility where others are using the pool at the same time, and the pool operator provides guard personnel, there may be no need for additional designation of Scout lifeguards and lookout.

The buddy system is critically important, however, even in a public pool. Remember, even in a crowd, you are alone without protection if no one is attentive to your circumstances."

Quotes are from: http://www.scouting.org/healthandsafety/gss/gss02.aspx#g

Unless a Cub Scout pack is planning on regular swimming excursions, I wouldn't place a high priority on someone being trained as a BSA lifeguard.

Ah, I see. Any thing you can set up as "filler"? Paper games, or puzzles? Can you make him a 'helper' - handing out materials, record attendance, etc.

THis may be a sign that crafts should be a less frequent aspect of meetings, or that you need to step up the complexity of the projects, to suit the boy's developing skills.

Off the top of my head, no, I don't think there are any Dub Scout activities which *require* a CPR trained adult.

>Are assistant den leaders required to take the leader specific >training?

Well, no one is *required* to take training except for specific activities. But, if you want well run dens, then you should expect assistants to attend training

>Does a den leader need to take the leader specific training >each year as they move from Tigers to Wolves to Bears to >Webelos?

There is training for Tiger Den leaders; Wolf/Bear den leaders and Webelos den leaders. So they don't have to retrain at Bears, it's the same course as for Wolves.

>How often do leaders need to be retrained? I have a couple of >answers already:

Youth Protection Training (on-Line) Every 2 Years

New Leader Essentials Once

Cub Scout Leader Fast Start (on-line)

Den Leader Specific Training (Tigers, Wolves, Bears, Webelos) See above.

Charter Organization Representative Training

Cubmaster Training

Pack Committee Training

Safe Swim Defense (on-line) Every two years

Stay Afloat (on-line) Every two years

WeatherHazards (on-line) Not sure

Basic Adult Leaders Outdoor Orientation (BALOO)

Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelo Leaders

All the others are just one time sessions. Now, refreshers are good for long term leaders, but not required.

Another thing to consider is to carefully plan your meetings to lessen the opportunity to misbehave.

Any time you provide unstructured time is an invitation to goof off or get squirrely.

Make sure your activities flow immediately from one to another, with no time inbetween. This may mean you have to set everything up before the meeting, or have another adult be preparing one activity while you're leading another.

The fewer chances they have to be naughty, the fewer problems you'll have. You'll all be happier, and have a better time.

Our council provides us with Scout tatoos or bookmark to *hand* to the kids along the parade route. We are prohibited from throwing candy or prizes because they don't want kids running in front of vehicles.

Another possibility would be stickers - Kids love stickers.

Wait for it - I have consumed liquor in my uniform. Liquor served by my council (or by a caterer employed by my council). AFAIK there is not rule against drinking liquor in uniform. There *Is* a rule against serving alcohol when youth are present. There is a rule against serving alcohol on BSA owned property. The events I attended were not on council property, and no youth were present.

Now, when our district committee has our December meeting at a local bar/restaurant, we don't wear uniforms. I agree with the premise that if a bunch of us goes out to a bar after a Scouting function, that changing into 'civvies' is a good idea. Because we don't want to give a the impression that Scout leaders don't set a good example about responsible use of alcohol.

But drinking in uniform isn't prohibited in any BSA literature that I have read.

Would seeing their SM and troop leaders in uniform enjoying an adult beverage set a poor example for the Scouts? Perhaps. Knowing that alcohol will be served, leaders need to make a choice. Sticking to non-alcoholic beverages would probably be wise. However, I don't believe the unit has any say over what the parents choose to do in their own home.

From the National Council web site -

Will the fund-raising project avoid soliciting money or gifts? The BSA Rules and Regulations state, "Youth members shall not be permitted to serve as solicitors of money for their chartered organizations, for the local council, or in support of other organizations. Adult and youth members shall not be permitted to serve as solicitors of money in support of personal or unit participation in local, national, or international events."For example: Boy Scouts/Cub Scouts and leaders should not identify themselves as Boy Scouts/Cub Scouts or as a troop/pack participate in The Salvation Army's Christmas Bell Ringing program. This would be raising money for another organization. At no time are units permitted to solicit *contributions* for unit programs. (emphasis added)

http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/resources/packbudget.aspx

Also from the same source:

Some Important Points:

Paying your own way. This is a fundamental principle of the Boy Scouts of America. It is one of the reasons why no solicitations (requests for contributions from individuals or the community) are permitted by Cub Scout packs. Young people in Scouting are taught early on that if they want something in life, they need to earn it. This principle is among the reasons that adults who were Scouts are found to have higher incomes. The finance plan of any pack should include participation by a Cub Scout in a regular dues plan.

An annual pack participation fee, too often completely contributed by parents, does little to teach a boy responsibility. **The unit's entire budget must be provided for by the families, either through fund-raising or other means such as dues or fees.** (Again emphasis added).

"No BSA member, unit or local council may enter into a contract or relationship of a commercial nature involving the BSA unless duly authorized to do so by the National Executive Board." Cub Scout Leader Book, p. 8-2.

A sponsorship, in which a unit implies approval of a particular business, is a "relationship of a commercial nature". The business is receiving something in return for their contribution of goods or services - the goodwill of the Scouts and their parents and the *implied* endorsement of that business by the unit.

The problem is that you, as a unit leader, or the BSA have no control over what that business does with our good name. You give the business a plaque or a certificate. The business owner hangs the item on their wall and gives the community the impression that "he's a good guy - he supported the Scouts". Then he proceeds to break the law, or run his business unethically, or gets closed down for health or OSHA violations. What damage has the implied relationship done to the reputation of the BSA? You may have plastered the business name all over your pack meeting, thanking them for the contributions, etc. What impression have you created with the parents in the pack? "Don't these people know enough not to do business with bums like that?"

Another consideration - you start doing this. You go to Roundtable and tout it as the greatest thing since sliced bread. Another unit leader who isn't as savvy as you approaches the local smoke shop or liquor store for similar assistance. We know those are not businesses we want to seem to endorse, for the health of our Scouts. What have you (inadvertantly) contributed to?

The Unit Money Earning Application is the council's tool to determine if we're supporting ourselves in a manner consistent with the values of the BSA. We are like Caesar's wife - we must be above suspicion. Stepping into the muddy waters of sponsorship runs the risk of soiling our toga

Cub Scout Leader Basic training - Spring 1991

Cub Scout Trainer Wood Badge - 1995

Scoutmaster Fundamentals & Troop Committee Training - 1996?

The dens meet for a 12 week session.

The meetings/practices are supposed to include a soccer skills session (25 minutes), a Scouting program activity (25 minutes), and then a "mini-game", followed by a closing ceremony

http://www.soccerandscouting.org/program/index.html'>http://www.soccerandscouting.org/program/index.html'>http://www.soccerandscouting.org/program/index.html

Weekend pack meetings include more games. Each 12 week session is concluded with a mini-tournament.

Each Scout is also supposed to have family time during the week to work on soccer skills and Scouting requirements.

http://www.soccerandscouting.org/program/index.html

Our program here is still small, and I too am curious about how its going.

The new National Commissioner has a podcast on the program:

http://www.soccerandscouting.org/program/index.html

In my study of Cub Scout history and old Cub literature, I have found that this *was* once the standard for Webelos camping. Thirty years go or so I believe. Seems to have hung around.

Webelos are now encouraged to camp. It's one way we fulfill both our promise of fun and adventure, and the 10th purpose of Cub Scouting - to prepare them to be Boy Scouts.

hot_foot - the photo on the left is the old uniform. The one on the right is the new one. I think there were trying to show the contrast.

Eagle92 -

If you're going to get re-involved in the Cub training, you should know that there are new versions of the Cub Scout position specific training and BALOO, which were released this summer.

I would suggest taking the Cub fast starts, just to get re-acquainted. Like you, I was trained with the old Cub Leader Basic. However, I've been primarily a Cub Scouter for the last 19 years, so I've kept up on the changes - and there have been quite a few. One of the best on-line trainings I've seen lately is the new Den Chief fast start, which does a great job with the parts of a den meeting, and boy behavior and needs.

Other direct contact leaders are SMs and ASMs, Advisors and Asst Advisors, Skippers and Mates, Varsity Scout coaches and their assistants.

ScoutNut has that one nailed. In an LDS troop, the 11-year olds (remember they move up from Webelos on their 11th birthday) are placed in a separate patrol. They meet separately from the rest of the troop (the 12-13 year olds). See: http://www.ldsscouting.org/11yearolds/11yearolds.html

I actually do this. I charge $1.50 for CSPs, a set of unit numerals, a position patch, a pocket flap (OA or Outdoor Activity Award). Rank badges are $1.00 each. Trained patches, World Crest, Den numeral/patch or patrol patch, merit badges are $.50 each.

It's sort of based on size or difficulty.

I charge $5.00 to hem pants and sell red vests for $8-15 depending on size and material.

OGE asked "Has there ever been a thought to make PTC level courses available in places other than PTC?"

Some courses are offered at Sea Base. This coming January there will be some Boy Scout courses offered there. However no family program is included. See:

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/18-108_Form.pdf

Pack15 - be prepared. In Boy Scouts, a Scout *is* considered active for the purposes of advancement if he is registered as a current member of a unit. A particular level of attendance at meetings or camping events is specifically prohibited from being set by a unit as a criterion for advancement.

On another note. The same procedures apply for appealing Cub Scout advancement as the appeals process in Boy Scouting. Since there is no Board of Review, a written explanation isn't required for the Scout, but a parent may appeal to the District Advancement Committee on behalf of their son in the same manner as they may in a Boy Scout advancement question. It doesn't happen very often, but I personally know of a case where it almost did.