infoscouter

Some of the material in NLE is touched on in the new Cub Scout PST, but it is not covered in the depth it is in NLE. For instance, while the PST talks about advancement being age and grade based, it doesn't explore the state of development, as in the Ages and Stages section of NLE.

I would say new Leader Essentials is still necessary, since it does explore those topics more fully.

Oh, and to answer your final question, as far as I know, you don't have to go through the whole thing and be "retrained", although I'm going to suggest that people come and check it out. As in the past, if you change positions, you have to go through the new 1.5 hour position specific session.

The syllabus does not mention New Leader Essentials. However, per an item in Scouting Magazine this spring, NLE is still part of the Cub Scout leader training scheme. In fact, the article says that as of Jan 1, 2008, in order to be considered "trained", a Cub Scout leader must have completed all four of these courses: Fast Start, Position Specific training, New Leader Essential AND Youth Protection. http://www.scoutingmagazine.org/issues/0805/d-news.html

(Scroll down to the bottom)

As for the new course - it looks very good. There are no longer any video segments. Everything is instructor led. The first sections (Intro to Cub Scouting and How We Have Fun) are supposed to include elements of a Pack meeting (skits; songs; morale features; opening, closing and awards ceremonies - the learners earn a "mock" Bobcat badge).

The PST for den leaders includes hands on parts of the den meeting, as well as planning a meeting, and for Tiger Cubs, a Go and see it. Cubmasters plan a pack meeting, and explore their cooperative relationship with the Pack Committee. Committee members go through the annual program planning process AND make a budget. Pack Trainers learn about all the different kinds of training, discuss making a leadership training inventory, and learn about conducting Parent Orientation meetings.

the DVD can be run from a computer and projector OR from a TV/DvD player. Either way, you can progress through the slides for the section you are teaching one slide at a time, at your pace.

Our district has used a "train" theme in the past for our meetings. We will continue this theme, with actual hands on songs, skits, crafts and games - plus decorations and costumes, in order to more fully model the meeting parts and how the den meetings tie to the theme of the month.

It seems logical to think that the camp/council instituted sort of a "dress code" policy for activity shirts, so that the camp commissioners/counselors weren't placed in the continual position of choosing which shirts are appropriate or not. If the camp has had a rash of kids (or adults) wearing shirts that were problematic, and were spending staff time on making kids change, or turn the shirts inside out; they may have thrown up their hands and 'made a rule', so as not to expend resources on the issue.

I'd think that the unit leaders would have dealt with the issue, but as we know, we don't always agree ;-0.

The best advice we can give you is to encourage you to go to training, and to read and follow the publications of the BSA. If you follow the program as it is laid out, you will do fine.

As for the mom complainng about cost - is she low income? Perhaps $25 really is too much for her. When you recruited your Scouts did you have a parents meeting (as described in teh Cub Scout Leader Book), and explain how the program works, and what it would cost? If not, the $25 may have been a surprise to her.

Pack policies are important. Before each fundraiser, we publish a document that states what the fundraiser monies will be used for, how the proceeds will be divided between the pack and the Scouts, when the money is due, and what incentives are offered.

In order to encourage the parents to participate in the fundraiser, we publish an annual budget that shows how much it costs to run the pack, and what value their son gets for the money he raises. It makes a big difference when they can see what the money goes for. You can find a sample budget in the Cub Scout Leader Book, or on the National web site in the Cub Scout section, there is a downloadable, fill in the blanks version.

If you're already using one of the commercial programs to track your Scouts, most of them have a module for tracking trainng.

Both of the online systems, ScoutTrack and ScoutManage have sections devoted to training (they have affordable yearly fees)

I'm not always a big fan of guest speakers if all the guest does is speak. If they bring in an activity that the boys can participate in, that's great, but if they have to sit through a 1/2 hour presentation - yuck.

Some of our best meetings have been things like our Emergency Preparedness fair, where we had stations that fulfilled the requirements for the Emergency Preparedness Award. We also did Leave No Trace night, and a conservation oriented meeting.

Our Cubmobile races are a big hit. We've had the boys make snowmobiles and Santa sleighs (and cars). These are great because the involve the whole family. Every other year or so we have turtle races (see the How To Book).

All of these meetings have award ceremonies, but the important thing about them is that they *involve* the boys. That's what you're seeking to do with your outings idea - but you don't *have* to leave the meeting place to gain that involvement. You just have to break the mold of having the boys sit in their chairs all evening - that's what kills the boys' enthusiasm, not the award ceremony.

I'm disappointed it's only Boy Scout patterns. When the BSA licensed some fleece a few years ago, they included Cub Scout patterns, which were very popular around here. I would have rushed right out to buy Blue & Gold type fabrics if they were available.

What you're describing is a pack outing, not a pack meeting. Pack outings are great and are an important part of the pack program, but they shouldn't be a substitute for the pack meeting.

The purpose of the pack meeting is to recognize the boys for their achievements as well as to bring the whole pack together to show off what the boys have been doing during the month.

The award ceremony is 15-20 minutes out of a 90 minute meeting. The rest of the time is full of games, skits, songs and den demonstrations. It is how the boys show their parents and each other what they've done at their den meetings, and a chance for all the dens to work as a group.

Our pack meetings keep the boys active and learning and sharing for more than an hour. The recognition is an important part of the meeting, but we do lots of other things too.

I think if you look closely, you'll see that the models were dressed in costumes intended to resemble Scout uniforms, not actual uniform parts. The shorts definitely weren't BSA issue - they were made fabric the same color as uniform pants, but they were tailored very differently, and even had some gold trim between the "waistband" and the legs, and at the bottom of the legs.

The shirts had numerals, but above the numerals were some sort of strip that isn't a CSP, and the buttons on their shirts don't look official either. I would bet the producers were very careful not to infringe the BSA copyrights on the uniform, while trying to appear as if uniforms were being worn.

For paper records, I would start with the Council camping committee minutes, board minutes, etc. and look for references to camp operations, authorizations for expenditures, hiring of staff, etc.

Does your council have a newsletter? Go through the back issues (hopefully they kep them), and copy the articles about the camp.

We are in the process of doing a council history book for the 100th anniversary - our techniques are just what you describe. Oral histories are a big deal. Our two biggest camps have staff alumni associations - if yours do as well, then that would be a good place to start for interviews.

See of you can locate the rangers who have worked at the camp. They are going to have good recollections of when buildings were erected, programs started, etc.

Our council allows siblings to participate at our fall day camps, but not the winter ones. The winter camps are very popular, and don't have room for siblings. We do not have day camp in the summer, only resident camp. Siblings do not attend resident camp. I don't know when this crept in, but in today's environment of dual income families, day care challenges, I can understand why it has become a reality

Your volunteer committee had to prepare a budget (believe me I've done my share of those). They are probably paying rent and perhaps janitorial fees for the building. I would bet that's where some of the money is going. Sometimes staff is all volunteer. Sometimes you end up paying lifeguards, or health personnel if volunteers aren't available. It's hard to know what they have to pay for, and what other activities may be included later this week. Typically, we allocate $1.50-$2.00 per camper per day for supplies. Some councils expect or require events to turn a profit. That could be the case with your council.

Since the camp was visited (we don't do inspections any longer, they are called visitations), then they probably met the BSA standards. If they hadn't met some of the critical standards, they would have been shut down.

As for organization, well Day Camp is generally run by volunteers from various units in the district. The first time I went to National Camping School, we were taught that Day Camp is a cooperative effort of all the packs in the district. If your parents are not happy with how things are run, they should ask about joining the committee/staff for next year.

Speaking from experience, I can tell you that sometimes you set up what you think is a viable system, and no one listens to the instructions. Sometimes the system doesn't work as well as you hoped, and you have go to "Plan B". They may have had a volunteer cancel or get ill. This may be their first time doing this, and they didn't realize there would be a problem. Without knowing their challenges, it is difficult to judge.

Are your son and his den-mates having fun? Are they learning?The things that matter to adults don't penetrate to the kids most of the time. If they're getting something from the experience, that's the important thing.

In the early chapters of the Cub Scout leader book. In the chapter on parent involvement, there is a list of over 100 things parents can do to help the Cub Scout pack. There should be some ideas in there for this willing parent.

No, the BSA rules are very precise about the fact that no leader or unit can add to, subtract from or change any requirements.

That said, they don't have to do that achievement to earn the Bear badge, so you could skip it. Or, since they're Bear's now, they can be expected to do a higher level of work, so plan a more ambitious tool box,that requires them to make a more advanced finished product.

Sorry this is long. Here's a quote from the Guide to Safe Scouting, which addresses in part your concerns.

"Youth Member Behavior Guidelines

The Boy Scouts of America is a values-based youth development organization that helps young people learn positive attributes of character, citizenship, and personal fitness. The BSA has the expectation that all participants in the Scouting program will relate to each other in accord with the principles embodied in the Scout Oath and Law.

One of the developmental tasks of childhood is to learn appropriate behavior. Children are not born with an innate sense of propriety and they need guidance and direction. The example set by positive adult role models is a powerful tool for shaping behavior and a tool that is stressed in Scouting.

Misbehavior by a single youth member in a Scouting unit may constitute a threat to the safety of the individual who misbehaves as well as to the safety of other unit members. Such misbehavior constitutes an unreasonable burden on a Scout unit and cannot be ignored.

Member Responsibilities

All members of the Boy Scouts of America are expected to conduct themselves in accordance with the principles set forth in the Scout Oath and Law. Physical violence, hazing, bullying, theft, verbal insults, and drugs and alcohol have no place in the Scouting program and may result in the revocation of a Scout's membership in the unit.

If confronted by threats of violence or other forms of bullying from other youth members, Scouts should seek help from their unit leaders or parents.

Unit Responsibilities

Adult leaders of Scouting units are responsible for monitoring the behavior of youth members and interceding when necessary. Parents of youth members who misbehave should be informed and asked for assistance in dealing with it.

The BSA does not permit the use of corporal punishment by unit leaders when disciplining youth members.

The unit committee should review repetitive or serious incidents of misbehavior in consultation with the parents of the child to determine a course of corrective action including possible revocation of the youth's membership in the unit."

You should also take a look at chapter 16 in the Cub Scout Leader Book, which has much of the same information.

Basically, you don't have to 'put up with' misbehavior and disrespect. You have a responsibility to the other boys to conduct a safe outing. If the behavior of these Scouts is interfering with that, then the Pack Committee needs to help you set requirements for outings. Those could include requiring parents for some or all Scouts. They could include excluding particular Scouts based on past behavior, or until such a time as they can demonstrate respectful behvior (listening, following rules, staying with the group, etc.)

I just re-read your original post. Are you these boys regular den leader, or are you a parent coming along to help? You speak of one boy as being notorious. How can a 7 year old have a repuatation? He's only been in school for two years.

I would urge you to go into this with no preconceptions about any boy, including your own son. You may find they behave very differently at camp than they do at school or at den meetings. I *try* not to pre-judge any boy - you will interact with each of them differently than their parents, teachers and any other individual. Be positive about the experience, go into it prepared, but with anticipation. You will find your attitude will transmit itself to the boys and they will respond to you.

Is there a possibility of having a den meeting before camp? If so, have them work with you on a Den Code of Conduct. They should suggest items to include, but you can guide. In the end, you should wind up with:

Keep hands, feet and objects to themselves

Stay with their buddy at all times

No name calling, put downs or teasing

Everything they find at camp (sticks, leaves, etc.) stays at camp

If you can't have a meeting, you'll have to impose the rules, but it's better if they 'buy-in' by helping write them.

They can also help you with consequences - time outs, etc.

You can certainly award beads or other incentives like tickets. Then establish a reward - everybody earns their bead each day by following the rules, then at the end of camp you'll have a meeting and serve ice cream or pizza or take them to a skating rink. You get the idea.

Here are some tips and examples:

http://www.wtsmith.com/rt/behavior.html

http://www.scatacook.org/ArticlesAndFlyers/CubScoutDenCodeOfConduct-Examples.doc

The name of the award is the Attendance Award, not the *perfect attendance* award. If you awarded it on the basis of showing up at every unit meeting/event, almost no one would receive it. Each unit sets its own criteria for the award - it could be 80%, 90%, or only 'excused' absences (but then you'd have to make a list of valid excuses, and require phone calls and there would always be some sort of exception - more hassle than it's worth to administer). Just be good about taking attendance, set a standard, and award the pin & bars on that basis. Remember to budget for this - we don't use it due to cost.

Ceremonies like this are a good time to do leader appreciation. Make sure everyone gets a big thanks for their work this year.

Just a question - why are your Webelos crossing so late? Ours were gone in February, and have already been to Spring Camporee, and a couple other campouts.

We made a point, at our new parent orientation, to teach the parents the following phrase: "Ask your patrol leader". We have all new parents and leaders. The previous membership of the troop completely turned over in the last 6 months, so we are all starting from scratch. However, I knew enough from hanging around on forums and lists like this, and from my previous troop experience with my sons, what some of the issues would be.

We are trying hard to teach the parents that the boys need to rely on other boys for their answers. If they want to come to the adult area and say Hi!, that's fine, but if they need something, we want the parents to steer them to the PL or SPL. So far (fingers and toes crossed) it works most of the time.

"Our promise to you

You are the final judge of our products. If, for any reason, you are dissatisfied with any item purchased from the Boy Scouts of America, you can either exchange the item for a replacement or receive a full and complete refund. No questions asked.

You can be assured that the Scouting seal and the BSA Best and Black Bull labels are your guarantee of quality, excellence and performance. So look for these official Scouting merchandise symbols and buy with confidence."

From: www.scoutstuff.org - click on "Customer Service".

It's also in the printed catalogs.

Lisabob - part of the phenomenon you encountered comes from those who do the paperwork not putting in the right codes when registering new folks or re-chartering. It's easy to recruit a Tiger leader and put DL on the form instead of TL. Some people truly don't realize there's a difference. So the pack ends up with Tigers, but no TL.

And what do you do when you recharter in February? The TL is still a TL, so you don't change the code to DL. When June rolls around, and they become the Wolf DL, no one goes back and updates the records. That may happen when the unit recharters, but often when the DL becomes the WL, no one bothers, because again - what difference does it make? The WL may actually have gone to WL PST, but if s/he is still registered as a DL, the leader appears to be untrained.

Next there's the issue of Cub Position Specific Training. As you know, a TL is supposed to attend Den Leader PST when s/he starts working in a Wolf/Bear den. Some do, many do not, and so show up as untrained - because there's a separate code for that training.

Additionally, a few years ago National changed the standards for what Cub Scout leadership was required to charter a pack. It used to be that if you had a Tiger Den, you couldn't recharter w/o a Tiger Den Leader. Ditto with a Webelos Den. Now all that is required to charter is a single DL.

Finally, now that Fast Start, NLE, PST and YP are required to be listed as a trained Cub Scout leader (see the latest issue of Scouting) our percentage is going to drop even lower. Who actually sends in the date they did Fast Start? Unless it was done online and that record actually gets uploaded to your council's records in ScoutNet . . . well lets just say my level of confidence in the electronic records is not high.

Our district derby is held in one of the atrium areas at a local shopping mall. http://threerivers.nsbsa.org/distderby.htm (Scoll down for pictures).

I don't believe they charge us, so our costs are the trophies, participation patches and some av equipment.

While I'm a member of the District Cub Activities committee which oversees this event, I've never gotten heavily involved. The only difference in planning is going to be scale, and a registration process. We typically do a Saturday race, with a Friday evening set up and check in. As you can see from the reports, there were close to 600 cars in the race this year so the early check in is important. We send out a printed packet with the rules and a sign in sheet each fall (usually in September or October), so that packs can match their rules with those of the district and the council.

BTW, the council race is held each year at the Mall of America.

http://www.northernstarbsa.org/ActivitiesCivicService/Local/CouncilDerby.aspx

Sorry I don't have access to the budget.

Many Point is one of our two long term Boy Scout camps. It is indeed about that distance from Ely. If you travel to Minneapolis-St. Paul as one group and then split up, it will take the Ely bound group about 3.5-4 hours and the Many Point group will have 5-6 hours of driving ahead of them.

Many Point is a great camp. My boys went for several years, and one year we went up with our youngest and camped in the Family camp, while the older two were camping with the troop. It's a large camp, so there are many program opportunitines. There are three camping styles offered - full dining hall, full patrol cooking, and a "hot stacks" option. In the last, they do patrol cooking for breakfast & lunch and then hot meals are delivered to the camp site in insulated containers.

http://www.northernstarbsa.org/Camping/Facilities/ManyPoint/Facilities.aspx

Oh, and to answer your other questions.

Sommers Canoe base is one of the facilities with make up the Northern Tier High Adventure Bases. Sommers is the only one in the U.S. The other two facilities are in Canada.

The Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness - BACAW adjoins Quetico Provincial Park, a Province of Ontario park. The BACAW is a federally protected wilderness area, administered by the National Forest Service:

"The Boundary Waters was recognized for recreational opportunities in 1926, named the Superior Roadless Area in 1938, the BWCA in 1958, and federally designated under The Wilderness Act in 1964. It wasn't until October 21, 1978, The Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness Act was established to provide specific guidance for managing the million plus acres of the Superior National Forest.

The BWCAW has changed little since the glaciers melted. With over 1,500 miles of canoe routes, nearly 2,200 designated campsites, and more than 1,000 lakes and streams waiting, the BWCAW draws over 250,000 visitors each year. As part of the Superior National Forest, the BWCAW is managed by the US Forest Service."

http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/forests/superior/bwcaw/

Sommers Canoe base obtains permits from the Forest Service for the crews that enter the BWCAW, as do all outfitters who run trips in the area, or individuals who travel the area on their own. The Forest Service has strict limits on how many individuals may travel on a single permit, and controls where the groups travel in order to preserve the wilderness experience, spreading visitors over the wilderness area as much as possible.

The BWCAW is a total wilderness area, and no motorized vehicles are permitted in 99.9% of the wilderness (there are some small fringe areas where you can use a small motor).

Quetico Provincial Park is managed by the province of Ontario, and has slightly different rules. They allow fly-in trips involving float planes, which are not possible in the BWCAW. http://www.ontarioparks.com/ENGLISH/quet.html

Fly in trips are offered by the Atikokan (Rogert Canoe Base) in portions of the park.

The Bisset Programs are also fly-in, but the destination for those trips is into the province of Manitoba. This area is not contiguous with the BWCAW or the Quetico Provincial Park, as far as I can tell.