Horizon

Glad to see you back in action! I was considering having my Troop make a 504 Bad Gateway for the entrance to our Camporee site!

For certain badges, I am comfortable when, during the Training portion of the Troop meeting, some Scouts take that time to meet with a Merit Badge Counselor. There are some portions of the badge knowledge that can be explained at a Troop meeting, with later individual follow-up as the Scout does the work on their own.

We will have First Aid MB at Troop meetings now that most of our Webelos Scouts have bridged in. During this time the newly elected PLC will have Leadership training, and the Scouts are working on a plan for the rest of the Troop as well.

We are coming off of our Camporee prep meetings - so it will go from one set of Scout skills to another.

What is the size of the current necker vs. the vintage necker? One of my Patrols wants to make Patrol neckers of the "old size you could use to make an arm sling" that they hear from vintage Scouters.

Guidance?

I was a Scout in a 120+ Troop and we had community - it was those Patrols! The great thing about a big Troop is that you HAVE to use the Patrol method, there is no way for the Scoutmaster to run it all.

The Troop I serve is fast approaching 70 Scouts, up from 35 or so when I joined. We have 5 Patrols of 10+ each (mixed age), giving each one a strong set of Scouts for every campout. We have a good stack of boys in Leadership positions. My older Scouts are moving into our Venture Crew, and still supporting the Troop as well.

Engineer61:

You have the same impression I used to have. However, advancement requires RESPONSIBILITY, not leadership. A boy can make Eagle without ever once serving in a Leadership capacity. He can learn responsibility through Scribe, Bugler, Quartermaster, Chaplain Aide. He can also be an Instructor or a Guide - which do not put him in charge.

I was focused on Leadership, and then watched as a couple of non-leaders were elected to be Patrol Leaders. It was a learning experience, and I do not expect either of those boys to try for a Leadership position again any time soon.

There are non-alcoholic wines out there you can buy, often sold as cooking wine.

This site also has a list of substitutions:

http://www.recipetips.com/kitchen-tips/t--580/cooking-with-wine-nonalcohol-substitutions.asp

I go with zero tolerance due to the slippery slope concern. I don't want a boy (my son) knowing that I brought some, even mixed with spices. I don't want an adult thinking that if I bring it to cook, he "just have small flask in my tent."

I say this as someone with a few hundred bottles in a personal cellar, a large collection of single malts, etc. I drink - but NEVER in anything remotely related to Scouting.

Codger:

Sorry you got burned. Sometimes, working with kids, you can put a lot into something and they just don't seem to appreciate it. However, you keep on going and then you find you have reached the kids.

As an aside, I wish my Troop was near you - I have boys that would be all OVER that campout! In fact, I read your original thread and will be make a propose to my new SPL after elections. The current one is busy prepping for Camporee!

It sounds like your Scouts are working to resolve this. Hopefully all will move on.

For those of you thinking that the aggressor got off early, do you recall this follow-up post by Mafaking?

"A little more to the story.

According to the dad, after taking the stick one of the other three boys jumped on his boy. That's how that one boy was tossed from his boys' back and into the thorn bushes."

The first physical assault was AGAINST the boy who took the stick. His actions could easily be self-defense. Again - we do not have all of the information.

Why would I join a group that has a rule that goes against my beliefs?

1) Their rule is not central to my life.

2) Their rule is not central to what the organization does.

For me, both apply. I am straight, and to my knowledge my older son is too. My younger son has not hit puberty, so we will see. In the same sense, the gay issue is not central to any work I do in Scouting. It is out there, it bothers me that it is an issue, I am sure that it has a negative impact on Scouting in my area - but it truly holds minimal impact on my life.

But that made me think of other groups I belong to that I don't agree with 100%. Some posters here keep on telling me to quit if the BSA's anti-gay bigotry is so bad. Well - the BSA is still an amazing organization, even if there are a couple of blisters due to hard boots with no give in them. I also belong to the Sierra Club. They do great environmental work - though they are idiots in their application of their beliefs in regards to hunting. I could quit, but I prefer to be the card-carrying lifetime NRA member in the local meeting instead. It opens their eyes, and might, over time, shift the attitudes of a few. I belong to the Presbyterian Church, which goes back and forth on ordaining gays and lesbians. My presence is another voice for inclusion.

So why am in Scouts? It is a great youth organization for helping youngsters mature and grow on a proper path. I think there are some areas that could use some tweaking, but the central messages of the Oath, Law, Motto and Slogan are fantastic and I do my best to live them every day of my life.

Arrowmen from my Troop will be handling the bridging ceremony and AOL ceremony at a Pack meeting - is that OA service? There will not be a dance team, but there will be cheerful service.

Based on some of the posts here - it is allowed IF this is considered OA service. However - I thought I would ask for input from the campfire attendees.

Eamonn:

This part of G2SS is what I was using in my recommendation of a BOR (someone else added the inquisition descriptor):

"The unit committee should review repetitive or serious incidents of misbehavior in consultation with the parents of the child to determine a course of corrective action including possible revocation of the youth's membership in the unit. "

Fighting counts as a serious incident of misbehavior in my opinion.

The BOR should never be an inquisition - be it for rank or behavior. However, finding out ALL of the facts is critical here. Now - perhaps you don't thing a unit committee review of of the actions to be a BOR - I do. I want to talk to the Scouts, find out what happened, find out what instigated it, and then discuss possible corrective courses of action.

And will we also eject the boy who jumped the special needs scout?

This is why I believe in holding a BOR - you have to get ALL of the facts. If not, you are bouncing the boy who got caught - not necessarily all of the boys.

Not that I would not send a Scout home - but that we are all jumping on the one Scout, and now Mafaking has found some additional information. Strong response is required, but so is justice. I would bring all of the boys one at a time before the BOR to find out what happened. Then, after everyone has had a chance to talk, you can determine what the appropriate response is to ALL of the Scouts actions.

I would hold a BOR for the Special Needs Scout. Scoutmaster, plus 3 BOR members. Talk to the Scout, ask him what happened. Let the BOR determine the appropriate response.

Harris Connect is the operation, and they do this for multiple organizations. I bought the one for my alma mater back when having a physical directory made good sense (before everything was put online).

I have not bothered. NESA knows my name, home address, year I earned my Eagle - what else is needed?

The parents already had their 17 year old son do the run, so having the next in line go is not that big of a deal.

Beavah - perhaps she should have done a shakedown cruise to check the wind and solar charging systems, but then again she might have done that and the conditions are better. All she did was stop for an equipment change. She can still do the circumnavigation - but she loses the gold star for doing it without stopping on land.

I followed the story of the son, and will track the daughter's story as well. The Sunderland family has a yacht maintenance company - so I am confident that the gear is top notch. The ONLY issue is here is the risk for someone of that age.

We should celebrate this type of high adventure. I think that the founders of Scouting would love seeing young people going off on adventures with the right training and gear. This forum is full of people encouraging our Scouts to step up, take control and get out there. That is what the Sunderland kids are doing.

If you want to read about Zac's journey - it is here:

http://www.zacsunderland.com

Our contingent from Southern California is requiring it as well. Costing me some money since it has not been a year since my son's last physical.

I have to get mine done for staff as well.

I would be interested in seeing the actual charters. Just because the BSA classifies it as parks and recreation, or fire department does not necessarily mean that is who holds the charter. I can see some data entry clerk coding the charters for reporting purposes putting everything into a bucket when it comes from a Fire Dept. location.

I am a FD volunteer (part time - only when I am up at my place in the woods do I respond to calls). Ours is a volunteer FD that gets some money from taxes, but the vast majority comes from donations and from invoicing insurance companies when we take care of highway accidents. I could see an Explorer unit at the Fire Department being founded, and I KNOW that none of the volunteers would consider themselves government workers - just guys who show up on call to help out. They would have no problem calling their charter org the "friends of the Volunteer FD" if needed, or something else that qualifies. It would have ZERO impact on the operation, the volunteering, etc.

Finally Merlyn - If police departments are signing illegal charters, that is THEIR problem. I have personally NEVER heard a cop tell me that ignorance of the law IS an excuse...

Have rules about their use, and let the boys bring them. For a lot of kids, their phone is also their camera.

I will have mine at the SCUBA tank, and will use it to update my Facebook page as well.

Potlucks are a blast! Thoughts for you:

1) Smaller plates (harder to load up).

2) Announcements. "Last time we had some people sign up who were not able to come or bring their dish. That left us a little short - PLEASE work with us." Or something like that - a reminder of how it can impact others often comes through to the vast majority.

I am a Scouter in a pretty diverse community of mainly Anglo, Persian and Asian (Korean, Japanese and Chinese) Scouts (with a few Hispanics). Our potlucks truly test the ability to mix dishes at times - but the boys have fun.

We also announce when seconds are allowed.

I am familiar with 4 Troops:

My original Troop as a boy

The Troop where I am honored to be the Scoutmaster.

The "Troop next door" that we also reviewed while in Cubs (and where several friends are leaders).

My son's Jamboree Troop for 2010.

Merit Badge Mills:

Our Council has Merit Badge Days - so there is some of that going on.

Our local Summer Camps are also merit badge schools as well. Their counselors are not too shabby, though, and my Scouts learn in the classes. I also only sign Blue Cards for outdoors related badges at Summer Camp unless it is one of my older Scouts who has done everything else.

The two local Troops don't seem to be cranking the sashes full too fast.

Advancement Mills:

My Scouts CAN (but don't always) make First Class in the first year IF THEY CHOOSE. I have a strong group of youth leaders and Instructors who regularly review the key Scout Skills of the Trail to First Class. We regularly have Patrol contests for certain skills, and we are active participants at Camporee.

Youth Led:

IMHO we are a B, trying to earn an A. I don't know how we truly compare to other Troops on this. I have been working hard on passing more responsibility to my Scouts, and after almost two years as the Scoutmaster, it is starting to really take.

The Outing in Scouting:

We camp every month. Period. Mainly car camping, with 2-3 backpacking trips and one annual 10+ mile hike in (where the gear is waiting for you). I am happy with this, and we bounce around a lot of sites to make sure that the boys don't get bored with locations either. We play wide area games, practice Scoutcraft, and generally have a blast. We don't hit Kudu's 300 feet between Patrols (next to impossible in many of the places we go in Southern California), but we do try to get the Patrols to separate from each other.

Leader fit measurements:

I hit the trail with the Scouts, and I have several adult leaders who hit the trail with me. I also have some adults who won't pass the new high adventure / remote location requirements - but we don't let that stand in the way of activities.

Young Eagles:

This is one of my hot buttons. I EARNED my Eagle pretty young (as in - before I turned 14). I happily discuss my project, and I can remember most of what I learned from my Merit Badges. I have 15 year old Eagles and 17.999999 year old Eagles in my Troop. This upcoming year I will probably have a few 14 year old Eagles, simply because I have told them that it is OK to try for it. Some boys had been discouraged from doing this prior to my arrival, and a culture of putting off the final bits of work until the summer before Senior year of high school had snuck into the tent. I support any Scout at any age.

Bullying:

No tolerance for it, but it still happens. We also treat it as quickly as possible, with an immediate SMC, and in truly bad situations a BOR held. Only issue is the unseen and unreported bullying.

Reverence and Morality:

Emphasized regularly, and I have a Minister in my Troop who counsels boys on earning their God and Country badge. I also have a local Rabbi who works with my Jewish Scouts. I am working on getting the local Iman to help out my one Muslim Scout with his path. There are a couple of boys who I THINK are Buddhist, and I might take the training with them just to learn more myself.

We hype what we have and what we deliver, and we encourage Scouts to check out other local troops as well and make their choices. I work in sales and marketing, and I have no problem standing behind my "product".

We use vendor who sets up 3 stations:

Station 1: Classic gravity race, with computerized scoring. Best time of 3 is recorded.

Station 2: Think Pinewood Shuffleboard. The Scout pushes their car, with different scores depending on how close to the center the car stops.

Station 3: The long jump (also known as the wheel whacker). Gravity jump, points based on distance.

Awards are given for fastest car in each Den, and in the Pack. (top 3 in both)

Awards are given for the best overall in the Den, and in the Pack. (top 3 in both)

The nice thing about stations 2 & 3 is that even if your dad isn't a rocket scientist from the local defense contractor or the University - you have a chance of doing quite well.

Happy to have good moderators who enforce the Scout Oath and Law. Killing threads is a good thing at times.

While I am sure that a moderator or two might stray over the line sometimes, that is a price I am happy to pay to have regulated forums that do not go too far down the sewer.

GAHillBilly:

I am nobody's clone (nor their mom). I am a white male, married, Scoutmaster and Deacon. I participate on this forum to gather information, learn from others, and sometimes debate over the virtual campfire. I usually just "walk away" from the more heated discussions. I had gone into "read only" mode on this thread until you insinuated that people like me would turn a blind eye to sexual molesters. That is an insult of a pretty high level.

I accuse you of INTERNET bullying based on this post:

"However, I'm gonna quit. I thought I was talking with Scouts and Scouters here. But, my son read through this thread, and got curious about some of the posters. Google and a little investigative cleverness goes a long way, and he's found out some really surprising things. I'm not sure whether we'll post them or not."

You not only decided to post Merlyn's information, but you THREATENED (a bullying tactic) to post others possible personal details. That comes across as an attempt to stifle discussion on this forum regarding Scouting issues. That is a form of internet bullying - posting information about others in a public forum for all to see.

GAHillBilly Stated:

"Consequently, I consider it very likely that pro-gay Scouters will have an even stronger tendency to overlook bullying behavior, including bullying sexual abuse, than do other Scouters. "

Interesting (and Insulting) Hypothesis. I will reply.

The worst bullying I see is from He Man Macho Scouts and Scouters. Adults who think that boys will be boys, and look the other way. Those are the same Scouters who wave the flag of bigotry and homophobia in their anti-gay statements. If there is anyone ignoring bullying, I hypothesize based on my observations that it is those same individuals who are also the most likely to be anti-gay. To turn your statement around, anti-gay = pro-bully.

Given your bullying through the threatening of "outing" poster's identities on this board, I have another data point right here in this thread of an anti-gay attitude being held by a visible bully. Interesting, since internet bullying is now a required discussion point for advancement. How do you square your internet based bullying threats with the new Handbook requirements?

I have asked for BORs for bullying in my Troop, and I have gone with my SPL to visit the SPL and SM at other Troops at Summer Camp when bullying has occurred (both by and to my Scouts). So I am either an outlier (possible, since we have no way of collecting the data), or I am anecdotal evidence against your insulting hypothesis.

You also appear to claim that those of us who would like the BSA to follow its definition of Reverence (which require respecting the religion of others) are looking the other way regarding possible sexual molestation risks. I disagree. In the cases I am familiar with in Scouting, molestation has come from married adult male Scouters - not single men. It is the closeted molesters who appear to be the problem we face. I do not think that there will be a significant, measurable increase in molestation risk if the BSA allows Charter Organizations to determine if being gay is allowed in their chartered Unit. The reason for my belief is my experience with Sea Scouting in the UK, where I have not heard of any rampant issues. HiLo also mentions Australia, where this does not appear to be an issue either.

The Oath itself is aspirational, however. "On My Honor, I will do my best..."

If you don't want it aspirational, you remove the words "my best." You make it, "I will do my duty" instead.

Hmmm - interesting Scoutmaster's Minute somewhere in there I think.