Herms

Let's be honest, the quality unit patch doesn't mean a whole lot. ANY unit can get it as it is given for what was done the past year OR what you plan to do for the coming year! So every unit qualifies!

I have seen several Boy Scout ceremonies over the years which use a Native American motif, AOL, OA etc... Some very good, some not so good. The intent is not to offend, but to present an example of the simple pride, and respect the early Native American culture had for each other and the earth around them, which was often represented in their dress. Unfortunately, often times the costumes and ceremony are not historically correct, but as a leader do we really have time to put together accurate regalia for one ceremony. We should not worry so much about the presentation, and focus on the meaning of the ceremony, giving boys a sense of pride, history and awareness of the world around them.

How far do you want to travel? There are several great camps out west here!

NYLT is more advanced than say Brownsea-22. It is to teach boys how to lead using the Patrol Method.

HATS OFF to you all for keeping the Scout Law - Courteous alive in our youth!

Joni, don't quit, hang tough! It only takes one person to start a positive change which will benefit the boys in the long run. Like someone else said take it one small step at a time. One other suggestion may be to talk to he Charter Organization Rep about your vision for the Troop.

Good Luck.

Goldwinger, would that be the red one with the Singapore scout emblem on it? (I also sometime wear a neckerchief from Singapore, Korea or the Philippines. Nice conversation piece with other scouters.

For years I wore gray loops on my one troop uniform when doing a district function. Finally, broke down and did the velco thing as I work with Pack, Troop, District and OA.

The Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs has an area just for scouts to camp. Additionally, if the cadets are not there they will put you up in the gym. The grounds are really interesting to see, and you could also visit the nearby Garden of the Gods National Monument.

A cool slide I helped my Wolf Cub Scouts with a couple years ago was a racing helmet. I found a bubblegum machine that had different Nascar helmets, shelled out a bunch of quarters to he machine, and we drill holes through the top. The boys love wearing them at Pinewood Derby time!

Unfortunately, I have seen "Eagle Factories". Once saw a "Merit Badge University" where the boys went to a weekend of different MB classes and came away with 5-6 MB's including Cit. in Comm, Nation and World. Did the boys really get anything out of earning?? these merit badges...

As part of any Scoutmaster Conference I do, for T-Life, I have an Eagle patch with me. I ask the boy "Does he want to be an Eagle?" Of course he says he does, so I tell him to put it on, he is now an Eagle! They try to give it back say no they haven't earned it yet. NOW we can talk can get talk about what they are getting out of Scouts, not just pieces of cloth with colorful thread, but expierences, skills and fun.

Interestingly enough just did an EBOR from a 17 year old boy that I did a conference with about 4 years, I had the patch and asked him what it meant and the lesson had stuck with him! (After the EBOR I gave him the Eagle patch with my congrats)

I think the site is ok also. These are becoming a popular way for groups to communicate. This is similar to Classmates.com and Reunions.com and other military connect sites like togetherweserved.com.

I signed up. May be useful some time.

Ask the boys. Our love to sit around camp in the evening, talking, doing leatherworking (we take a better setup with us than most camps), playing cards etc. Like everyone else, it is THERE summer camp. Present to them the fellowship with other troops that they will gain, but leave the decision to them.

I see a lot of negative comments on the First Class Emphasis concept and had to add my two cents worth. I think it is a great program for several reasons:

1. For those kids (and lets be honest sometimes their parents) who want to achieve the rank of Eagle, a boy needs to be a First Class by at least the end of his second year, or in most cases he will never make it as they are entering high school and their lives become more involved with other things like the "fumes" (Car fumes, perfume...), sports, friends, band...

For data to back this up I look to our troop. We have 12 boys over the age of 14, 11 are Star or Life, only one is First Class or lower (just got First). We leaders have talked about this at cracker barrels, and very seldom will you see a 14 year old and up who has not advanced still in Scouts.

2. I talk with the boys a lot, and the older boys get tired of doing basic scout skills ALL the time. If your program is wrapped around doing the skills every meeting, every year the older scouts will get bored and we lose them. Most of the boys are excited to finish (and I remind them that they are never truely finished) these basic scout skills (cooking, knots, first aid ...) so that they can get on to doing the Merit Badges that they want to do. For some reason they alway feel like they must finish First Class before they can do Merit Badges.

Now I understand what everyone is concerned about, and see it in some of the posts; that the boys will push to finish the skills and advance to First without truely mastering them. That is always a concern, but if we do our jobs as (for lack of a better word) "testers" and not be afraid to say no, they do not know the skill well enough, and ENCOURAGE them to study and come back, it will teach them to Be Prepared.

Mmmm seems I've heard that somewhere?! (This message has been edited by Herms)

Troop 522, Cortez, Colorado, 1980

I guess it goes to the core of "What is Leadership?" Are Leadership and Management the same thing? In this broad view I would look at Leadership as how an individual would influence people to accomplish tasks, versus Management being control of a program.

I would totally agree (and have seen it often) that Patrol Leaders can perform badly and in cases like this we SM's/ASM's HAVE let the boys down. But positions like Scribe and Librarian manage programs. There can be times when it crosses over to leadership, etc. teaching the other scouts the correct MB book check-out or maybe talking to the other scouts about correct advancement recording.

We have had boys do an excellent job as Scribe (advancement was entered and given, PLC minutes taken and distributed etc), and never truely lead (influenced others). Is there any way that that could ever be said of a Patrol Leader, that he did a good job and never really influenced others?

I do understand what you are saying, that the way the system SHOULD work is that the Scribe/Librarian/Historian positions should be active leadership positions, the boys should be getting involved with talking to the troop about the various positional responsiblities. But no matter how much you work with these guys (25 years worth now) the view is (and has been in every troop I have observed) that these are "light duty" jobs and that is how the boys perform. PL/ASPL\SPL are viewed by the boys as "heavy" leadership roles and some tend to avoid it (one boy was only a Den Chief for 4 years through Life). My point is if we required them to do one of these positions (which THEY view as leadership positions) at least once on there way to Eagle we could attempt to instill in them the confidence that they can be leaders and not just managers.(This message has been edited by Herms)

A great one that we had a boy do some years back was on a Pinewood Derby car building clinic for new scouts in the Pack. He had so much fun with it that he also helped out with organizing the Pinewood Derby itself! (I think he just wanted to see how the cars of the boys who he helped ran, wink!)

CA,

How is your weekly program planned? If you could get these Life Scouts to the monthly PLC meetings and ask them to come up with ideas for the next months meetings, then ask them to organize (or assist you in getting together the materials) for the meetings this may go a long way in helping them to plan their Eagle Project and give them ideas on what is needed to organize it.

I just recently returned from Iraq and was disgusted at the way the media (television) reporters act and what they are looking for over there. All they are looking for is negative and sensational material.

We went out on particular convoy to open 2 new schools and a new 40 mile section of highway the Seabees had finished and when I went to the trailer to ask if any of them wanted to go out (and as the senior guy I got ordered to do it) not a single reporter out of 15 or 16 (ABC, NBC, CNN, FOX etc...) wanted to go to report on something good, something positive. It was amazing to watch some of these Iraqi kids going to school for the first time and not a single reporter was there to report on it!

In another instance we had a CNN reporter take a situation during a convoy op and completely twist it around so that it didn't even sound like what really happened! Perhaps the best reporters were the BBC guys. They were the least offensive and the most truthful (relatively speaking).

I won't even watch national TV news any more as I KNOW how badly they skew and miss-represent facts.

A great way to make elections fairer and reduce "popularity contests" would be to get the chapter or lodge to send members (preferably from another troop) to the meeting to hold the elections.

Before the elections start, have the senior member of this OA team give a presentation on what a good candidate would be.

On a side note: Just want to congratulate Jake Wellman on his selection as the National Order of the Arrow Chief. He is great young man and will do great things for the Order.

Looking at Twocubdads email brought a smile. I got my Brotherhood years ago when I was a youth. When I got back in to Scouts years later as an adult I had to ask one of the older boys the password. They all got a big chuckle out of it.

On a side note: Just want to congratulate one of our Scouts, Jake Wellman on his selection as the National Order of the Arrow Chief. He is an amazing young man and will do great things for the Order.

I would agree with most of these posts. Being a Life Scout and 14, he is already past Brownsea, but I would encourage him to go to NYLT and coach him on the side.

This brings up the huge question which has always bothered me, and that is why the POR for Life or Eagle includes things like Scribe and Librarian. In most troops I've seen, these are very "light responsiblity" jobs. There are those boys out there who will avoid taking a tougher leadership position of PL or SPL all through Scouts. It is my belief that by the time they hit Life, and for sure Eagle, they should have been required to take one of these tougher leadership roles. This would help avert the situation you are now in which is actually quite common.

We have to remind parents and leader that "it" meaning the program is for the boys. For example in our pack a couple years back the Committee Chairman was trying to use the Pack Meeting time to get the word out to all the parents about events and pack needs. I as the Cubmaster had to reminder her that the Pack Meeting "is for the boys" to have fun as a group and that her "announcements" were eating up the boys fun time.

In the Troop, often times the parents approach us ASM to ask if a boy can get stuff signed off. We remind them that the boy needs to approach the ASM. The parents are more concerned about the boy getting advancement, than learning new skills and how to interact with other adults.

"A Scout is Reverent." All Scouts show this by being faithful in their duty to God. Some go further and give special service. This can qualify them for a religious emblem. Such an emblem is not a Scouting award. It is conferred on a Scout by his religious leader.

When my daughter joined a Venture Crew, the question came up that she had earned a religious award as a Girl Scout, therefore was she able where the knot on here Venture uniform? As far as everyone (the church, the district, the council) could come up with they answer was yes she was allowed to wear the purple knot, but not the actual pin she received.

So to answer your question, if your son earns ANY kind of religious award, approved by BSA or not, he is entitled to were the knot.

I have an old "puck green", I mean vintage shirt that has all of my old patches on it that I wear once in a while, and the boys love it.

I even have the red beret (which I thought was sooo cool back in the 70's, but wouldn't be caught dead in now). When my son made Star I gave him my old Star patch (which is blue) to wear and the boys love that also.

Never did like the old pants or shorts.

It is hard enough to get a boy to wear a uniform, so if he will wear a vintage one, put it on!

Mom,

I have felt your pain. I spent almost 5 years with the Girl Scout program with my daughter before we gave up on it. My daughter couldn't wait until she turned 14 so she could join a Venture Crew and now is loving it. My only advise would be to drag your daughter along to the events letting her participate where she can and then get her in a Crew when she is old enough. Good luck.