Frank17

It is up to the counselor to decide what level of "proof" they require to satisfy the criteria. The terms "show" or "demonstrate" or "describe" mean different things to different people, and can be satified in any number of ways: pictures, written documentationm, oral discussion, etc. The counselor decides which they want / need. For me, a picture is worth a 1000 words, and is easy documentation.

SSScout: Excellent link. I had always wondered about the camo ban reference in BSA policies.

From the SM Handbook: "Do not wear the uniform while selling a commercial product or service, even for Scout fundraising purposes."

From the Popcorn sales flyer: Multiple pictures of scouts (all levels) selling popcorn & "Wear your uniform while selling" as a sales tip.

Can somebody reconcile the two, or did I miss somethging in my SM training class 5 years ago? Just curious.

Twocubdad posted: "We charge $125 per year and do no fundraising. That covers all troop expenses like advancement, camping gear (we provide all patrol gear including tent and cooking gear), program materials, and camp fees charged to the troop. It does not cover individual cost like food for campouts or summer camp fees"

Our Troop is very similar to this except we do annual fundraising to allow the scouts to sell $380 worth of popcorn or pay dues of $125 or a combination of both. We pay for all the noted above in addition to uniform parts (Class B-s, epaulets, necherchiefs, hats) and transportation to / from our camping events. Scouts are responsible for their own trip / summer camp costs.

We do our EBORs monthly at our regular District meeting place. However, Eagle candidates can request special boards if they have a reason too: schedules, close to 18+, comfort are all accepted.

On a side note; I have personally never seen a candidate fail and have only heard of one in our district who did. Part of the reason is they pre-screen each EBOR candidate to make sure they have all the required forms, letters, documentation etc. - If they do not, go away and come back with the complete package. The questioning during the EBOR seems more a formality than a real test. The only scout who I heard of that failed simply locked up with panic and would not respond to ANY questions. He failed, came back a month later, admitted he had panicked for no reason, and passed with flying colors. So even though it seems easy to us, to the scouts it is a major hurtle.

I give a BSA leather belt with an Eagle Buckle to the scouts I mentor. Useful and memorable.

I give a BSA leather belt with an Eagle Buckle to the scouts I mentor. Useful and memorable.

"Track half a mile in twenty-five minutes; or, if in town, describe satisfactorily the contents of one store window out of four observed for one minute each."

Another difference put in for rural vs. urban scouts.

Yes, we already have a high-adventure summer program in-place for our older scouts. We go between Sea Base, Philmont, and Northern Tier on an annual rotating basis. No real interest in the National Jamboree (mostly due to cost). We typically have a crew of 10-12 older scouts who go to the high-adventure camps. As an aside, our new CC suggested alternate (and cheaper) high adventure trips instead of the BSA camps, and almost got tarred & feathered too. Seems like our Scouts know what they like, and like to repeat trips.

Glad to know our Troop is not alone with this issue.

Some history: I am the new SM for a 60 scout troop, after having been an ASM (for New scouts) for 3 years. Traditionally, our Troop (and the Pack most of the scouts came from) has always attended the same local Council camp for Summer camp (Heritage Resv.). We really have no complaints about the camp. It is well run, well staffed, nice facilities, with programs for all ages of scouts. What I have noticed is that we tend to get a severe drop-off in troop scout attendance after about year 3 of attending camp; the older scouts just seem to become bored & unmotivated. When our past SM (my predecessor) suggested a change in camps about 3 years ago, he was almost tarred & feathered, run out on a rail, etc. and generally branded as a heretic by our scouts and parents. Being a smart SM, he dropped the topic gracefully.

Now last year, we had 42 scouts attending camp. 2/3 of them were new 6th or 7th graders. We only had 5 high school aged boys there (although they are about 1/3 of our troop). Of the H.S aged boys who came, they earned a total of 6 non-eagle MBs between them, mostly because they sat around the campfire most of the day. Definately unmotivated, as they all need additional Eagle MBs to get to Eagle. No interest in attending the COPE or Discovery programs.

Now the question: As the new SM, should I push our PLC to explore other Summer camp options or should I just let gravity take hold, in which case we will be back at Heritage again? What do other Troops do?

Came across these on the net while responding to another thread. TF-FC Requirements in 1911. Thought they would be appropriate to post in this forum. Interesting compared to today.

Tenderfoot

To become a scout a boy must be at least twelve years of age and must pass a test in the following:

1. Know the scout law, sign, salute, and significance of the badge.

2. Know the composition and history of the national flag and the customary forms of respect due to it.

3. Tie four out of the following knots: square or reef, sheet-bend, bowline, fisherman's, sheepshank, halter, clove hitch, timber hitch, or two half hitches.

He then takes the scout oath, is enrolled as a tenderfoot, and is entitled to wear the tenderfoot badge.

Second-Class Scout

To become a second-class scout, a tenderfoot must pass, to the satisfaction of the recognized local scout authorities, the following tests:

1. At least one month's service as a tenderfoot.

2. Elementary first aid and bandaging; know the general directions for first aid for injuries; know treatment for fainting, shock, fractures, bruises, sprains, injuries in which the skin is broken, burns, and scalds; demonstrate how to carry injured, and the use of the triangular and roller bandages and tourniquet.

3. Elementary signaling: Know the semaphore, or American Morse, or Myer alphabet.

4. Track half a mile in twenty-five minutes; or, if in town, describe satisfactorily the contents of one store window out of four observed for one minute each.

5. Go a mile in twelve minutes at scout's pace about fifty steps running and fifty walking, alternately.

6. Use properly knife or hatchet.

7. Prove ability to build a fire in the open, using not more than two matches.

8. Cook a quarter of a pound of meat and two potatoes in the open without the ordinary kitchen cooking utensils.

9. Earn and deposit at least one dollar in a public bank.

10. Know the sixteen principal points of the compass.

First-Class Scout

To become a first-class scout, the second-class scout must pass the following tests:

1. Swim fifty yards.

2. Earn and deposit at least two dollars in a public bank.

3. Send and receive a message by semaphore, or American Morse, or Myer alphabet, sixteen letters per minute.

4. Make a round trip alone (or with another scout) to a point at least seven miles away, going on foot or rowing boat, and write a satisfactory account of the trip and things observed.

5. Advanced first aid: Know the methods for panic prevention; what to do in case of fire and ice, electric and gas accidents; how to help in case of runaway horse, mad dog, or snake bite; treatment for dislocations, unconsciousness, poisoning, fainting, apoplexy, sunstroke, heat exhaustion, and freezing; know treatment for sunburn, ivy poisoning, bites and stings, nosebleed, earache, toothache, inflammation or grit in eye, cramp or stomach ache and chills; demonstrate artificial respiration.

6. Prepare and cook satisfactorily, in the open, without regular kitchen utensils, two of the following articles as may be directed. Eggs, bacon, hunter's stew, fish, fowl, game, pancakes, hoe-cake, biscuit, hardtack or a "twist," baked on a stick; explain to another boy the methods followed.

7. Read a map correctly, and draw, from field notes made on the spot, an intelligible rough sketch map, indicating by their proper marks important buildings, roads, trolley lines, main landmarks, principal elevations, etc. Point out a compass direction without the help of the compass.

8. Use properly an axe for felling or trimming light timber; or produce an article of carpentry or cabinet-making or metal work made by himself. Explain the method followed.

9. Judge distance, size, number, height and weight within 25 per cent.

10. Describe fully from observation ten species of trees or plants, including poison ivy, by their bark, leaves, flowers, fruit, or scent; or six species of wild birds by their plumage, notes, tracks, or habits; or six species of native wild animals by their form, color, call, tracks, or habits; find the North Star, and name and describe at least three constellations of stars.

11. Furnish satisfactory evidence that he has put into practice in his daily life the principles of the scout oath and law.

12. Enlist a boy trained by himself in the requirements of a tenderfoot.

I was told by our District training chair that the new weather hazards training will require an update every 2 years, just like the water training and YPT. One I did not see listed was climb-on-safety for climbing activities, which also expires every 2 years (at least according to my training card).

sheldonsmom: When I moved up here to the Yankee north, I was concerned that formal etiquette training was dead. Fortunately, we fould a local cotillion that we sent both our kids to for training in 6/7th grades. My daughter hated it, my son loved it! Equally funny were older boys who were taking the class (they did not want it when they were younger) when they realized they wanted to act appropriately so as to impress the girls in high school.

For the same reason that boy scouts in the past offered between 121 to 140 merit badges even though it did not always match up to give an even number for earning eagle palms: very few boys earn that many, and just being able to earn them all is a great accomplishment by itself. Webelos is the same for activity badges and compass points, although they have an "I earned all 20" patch for the scout who manages to do them all.

Some of the scouts in our Troop use them. They work OK, but not great. I would reccommend them for patches (like ranks or temporary brag patches) that you will only wear 6 months to a year. After that, the adhesive seems to lose its grip from washings, use, or time. Stick with sewing on the more permanent uniform patches.

Just to stir the pot a little more, I found this on the web: TF-FC Requirements in 1911. Interesting compared to today. Looks like swimming, knots, and first aid have been with us since the beginning.

Tenderfoot

To become a scout a boy must be at least twelve years of age and must pass a test in the following:

1. Know the scout law, sign, salute, and significance of the badge.

2. Know the composition and history of the national flag and the customary forms of respect due to it.

3. Tie four out of the following knots: square or reef, sheet-bend, bowline, fisherman's, sheepshank, halter, clove hitch, timber hitch, or two half hitches.

He then takes the scout oath, is enrolled as a tenderfoot, and is entitled to wear the tenderfoot badge.

Second-Class Scout

To become a second-class scout, a tenderfoot must pass, to the satisfaction of the recognized local scout authorities, the following tests:

1. At least one month's service as a tenderfoot.

2. Elementary first aid and bandaging; know the general directions for first aid for injuries; know treatment for fainting, shock, fractures, bruises, sprains, injuries in which the skin is broken, burns, and scalds; demonstrate how to carry injured, and the use of the triangular and roller bandages and tourniquet.

3. Elementary signaling: Know the semaphore, or American Morse, or Myer alphabet.

4. Track half a mile in twenty-five minutes; or, if in town, describe satisfactorily the contents of one store window out of four observed for one minute each.

5. Go a mile in twelve minutes at scout's pace about fifty steps running and fifty walking, alternately.

6. Use properly knife or hatchet.

7. Prove ability to build a fire in the open, using not more than two matches.

8. Cook a quarter of a pound of meat and two potatoes in the open without the ordinary kitchen cooking utensils.

9. Earn and deposit at least one dollar in a public bank.

10. Know the sixteen principal points of the compass.

First-Class Scout

To become a first-class scout, the second-class scout must pass the following tests:

1. Swim fifty yards.

2. Earn and deposit at least two dollars in a public bank.

3. Send and receive a message by semaphore, or American Morse, or Myer alphabet, sixteen letters per minute.

4. Make a round trip alone (or with another scout) to a point at least seven miles away, going on foot or rowing boat, and write a satisfactory account of the trip and things observed.

5. Advanced first aid: Know the methods for panic prevention; what to do in case of fire and ice, electric and gas accidents; how to help in case of runaway horse, mad dog, or snake bite; treatment for dislocations, unconsciousness, poisoning, fainting, apoplexy, sunstroke, heat exhaustion, and freezing; know treatment for sunburn, ivy poisoning, bites and stings, nosebleed, earache, toothache, inflammation or grit in eye, cramp or stomach ache and chills; demonstrate artificial respiration.

6. Prepare and cook satisfactorily, in the open, without regular kitchen utensils, two of the following articles as may be directed. Eggs, bacon, hunter's stew, fish, fowl, game, pancakes, hoe-cake, biscuit, hardtack or a "twist," baked on a stick; explain to another boy the methods followed.

7. Read a map correctly, and draw, from field notes made on the spot, an intelligible rough sketch map, indicating by their proper marks important buildings, roads, trolley lines, main landmarks, principal elevations, etc. Point out a compass direction without the help of the compass.

8. Use properly an axe for felling or trimming light timber; or produce an article of carpentry or cabinet-making or metal work made by himself. Explain the method followed.

9. Judge distance, size, number, height and weight within 25 per cent.

10. Describe fully from observation ten species of trees or plants, including poison ivy, by their bark, leaves, flowers, fruit, or scent; or six species of wild birds by their plumage, notes, tracks, or habits; or six species of native wild animals by their form, color, call, tracks, or habits; find the North Star, and name and describe at least three constellations of stars.

11. Furnish satisfactory evidence that he has put into practice in his daily life the principles of the scout oath and law.

12. Enlist a boy trained by himself in the requirements of a tenderfoot.

I keep coming back to the bold ('cause it's important) text in the BSA Insignia Guide: "Members should make every effort to keep their uniforms neat and uncluttered." I am always reminding myself of this too, because after every Jamboree, Scouting U, and District / Council event, mine seems to accumulate excess bling. Once the event is over, take it off, sew it on a blanket, or put it in an album. Don't look like a Christmas Tree.

Most of the patches put on brag vests have no requirement other than attendance. The scout shop by us has dozens available for all types of events, and they rotate them every 6 months or so. In addition, scoutstuff.org has dozens for sale under: Uniforms & Insignia, Standard Emblems. BTW, there is no requirement that the patches must be issued by BSA; private organization and Troop / Pack issues patches are OK too (like your zoo patch). You just want to memorialize the scouting experience.

My old Troop 819 in Chester, VA I attended as a youth "owned" their building (a one-room log cabin), and still does as far as I can tell. I am sure the church owns it, but it was dedicated solely for Scout use.

A small picture of it is shown on their homepage here: http://www.troop819.org.istemp.com/

Congrats! That is very exciting. IMHO, the best way to keep your sons involved in scouts is for you to be involved in scouts. Leading by example really works, and is quality time spent.

Time to send your Troop's Eagle advisors to some extra training or to some roundtables to get educated on Eagle project review criteria. There is no excuse for so many edits / revisions. AT MOST, when I do reviews, the scout has to do 2 edits: one that will address all my comments and one to correct any my comments he missed the first time. If your advisor keeps adding new comments to the mix or not giving direction, then they do not have a clue about what is going on. Their job is to advise and teach, not grade the project as pass / fail. They need to do more than that.

Can I volunteer as an adult to help out in OA if I am not a member? I was under the impression that I needed to be a part of OA for that. (I got out of boy scouting as a youth before I was able to join OA).

Also, what is the opinion on joining OA as an adult? I have been eligible, but turned down the nomination last spring, as I wanted my son to belong first, and not take away from his experience. I was not planning on joining, as I wanted him to have "his own thing" in scouting to do, as he is already stuck with me as his SM of his Troop.

Frank

It was my thought that he should be the OA Rep as well, since he is interested and will be willing to try to encourage our other scouts to attend OA meetings and activities. I do not know what the lodge does for ceremony teams; I will ask him to check it out. Ditto for elections - he may not want a position right now, especially since he is coming off a sting as a PL for our Troop which kept him quite busy.

My son was tapped out this past summer for OA and just completed his ordeal last month. He went to his first OA meeting at the district level and seemed to enjoy it, although talking to him afterwards, it did not seem like they accomplished much for a 2 hour meeting. Mostly just discussed upcoming trips and played cards. He is still very excited about belonging to the OA, and I would like to foster his enthusiasm. Just for reference, our Troop is not very involved in OA, as from among the 20+ current OA members we have, none of them currently go to the OA meetings. Similarly, at the district level, usually only about a dozen OA members show up for the meeting; that seems light to me for a district that has almost 30 active Troops. I do not know how active the OA is at the Council level, although there is a winter camping weekend organized by Council that he will be going to.

What things should I have my son do (other than attend meetings) that will help him get the most out of OA? He is thinking about trying to become our Troop OA Rep: is this a good idea since he just joined? I do not belong to OA so I will not be going along on his trips; as I am his Troop's SM I would like to see him have some activities where I am not around.

Funny, but I just got a question from our database administrator last night on this issue. Since Troopmaster will not double credit trips: i.e.- They must be solely labeled as camping OR backpacking OR hiking, he wanted to know how to credit trips. As a courtesy, we use Troopmaster to record each scouts accomplishments so they have a record. I told him to capture that camping nights so they could use it to document their work for the Camping MB, which you must have for Eagle. The other info is captured in the trip description field if they need oit to document hiking or backpacking. Regardless, it is used as a tool to help the scout to keep track of the trip he went on so as to achieve requirements for MBs. It is up to the scout to present this info to their MB counselor. The MB counselor then has to decide whether to accept it or not. Most allow double counting of camping with hiking / backpacking, but will not double count backpacking and hiking together. You can also use backpacking as hiking credit but not the other way around.