fgoodwin

If you collect Scouting books, check out this website:

http://www.redhonor.com/

I have no financial interest in the website or publisher, but I just ordered two books!

You Scout historians out there will recognize the name:

http://www.paxtu.org/

Bob, I know you already know this, but it bears repeating:

On the Internet, just as in real life, threads (read: conversations) have a way of taking on a life of their own. You can start a conversation, but once its out there, you can no more control it than nail jello to a wall.

Life is much less stressful when you pick your battles and learn that those things beyond your control are not worth worrying about.

Just my 2

allangr1024: Rick beat me to it, but his website has some great suggestions for how to do Boy Scout recruiting in the schools.

He targets sixth graders (that's middle school in Texas) but I'm sure it can be adapted for fifth graders (last year of elementary school here).

Good luck, and please come back and let us know how it went.

Nick: I'm just speculating, but I wonder if Margaret took offense at the suggestion that her son s/b doing the asking, rather than mom?

I know that sometimes it takes a while for parents of newly crossed-over Scouts to understand that Boy Scouts isn't Cub Scouts, and well-intentioned parents shouldn't always be doing things for their sons. Boy Scouts is about the young man learning to stand on his own two feet. I'm not saying Margaret is a "helicopter" parent, just that it sometimes takes a while to understand the differences in the programs, and the expectations on the boys.

And I certainly don't mean to suggest that dads are any better than moms at letting go -- some of the most outrageous cases of "hovering" over new Scouts is by dads. But the responses to Margaret didn't make that point, either.

Just my 2

So how are teachers supposed to conduct class on this day of silence? Does the principal skip any announcements over the PA?

I guess the choir, drama club and speech-debate clubs can take the day off. And tell those coaches to keep it down over there . . .

Recruiting parents to help out is one of the skills covered in NLE.

[rant mode on]

Despite claims that NLE is useless, I think there are good parts to it that get overlooked because folks complain so loudly and often that it doesn't teach them how to do their jobs (which, of course, it was never intended to do).

[/rant mode off]

Cool -- what school is this?

hotdesk writes:"The council site that I used as a reference states that . . ."Sounds like a local council requirement -- there is no code for the IH on the official BSA adult application (again, your council may be different).

Outside of possibly your council, there is no requirement for an IH to register with the BSA; that is the COR's job.

hotdesk: I stand by my statement that IH isn't a registered BSA position. Yes, the IH has to sign the charter, but there is no requirement that the IH register with BSA.

Its true that an IH may hold any position in the unit if he or she wants to; that doesn't violate the limit against double registration because the IH isn't a registered position.

If you have documentation to the contrary, I'd like to see it.

And evmori: no one s/b wearing a BSA position patch if they aren't registered, wouldn't you agree? The patch may not equal their registered position, but I never said otherwise.

The "pass / fail" I refer to is giving the Scout advancement credit for his service in a POR.

So Stosh, you would give a Scout advancement credit for his POR, regardless of how well (or how poorly) he did it?

Where's the learning or leadership in that?

Stosh, IH isn't a registered leadership position, as far as I know -- there is no patch for it.

thebigguy writes:I would give the scout credit for the one job he did well, but not give him credit for the other.You know, that certainly sounds fair, doesn't it? But suppose instead of two PORs, the boy holds three (after all, if there's no rule against two PORs, where's the rule against three?).

Or suppose he holds four PORs, or more? If he succeeds at one POR but fails at all the others, does he still get credit?

Because there is no downside for failure, isn't that an incentive to try multiple PORs, hoping to get credit for one?

And since one is all he needs credit for, is it too much to ask the boy to pick one POR that he thinks he can do well and concentrate on doing the best job he can on that one POR?

Let's say a boy holds two PORs simultaneously -- let's assume he does a great job with one POR but fails miserably at the other.

At the end of his tenure (let's assume the two PORs end on the same date), he asks his SM (or whoever supervised him) to sign-off his advancement credit (4 or 6 months in a POR).

Does he get the sign-off because he successfully completed one POR, or is he denied the sign-off because he failed the other POR?

Eamonn writes:"Wonder what would happen if adults were only allowed to serve in one position /job ?"Adults may serve in as many positions as they can handle (the only limitation is that they may not register for two positions in a unit, unless it the COR registering as CC or MC), even though we all know its not the best way to do things.

The same can be said of Scouts; a boy taking two jobs means another boy isn't pulling his share of the load.

The other difference is that adults who wear multiple hats don't also try to sew multiple position patches on the same uniform, as was the case with the Scout whose mother started this with the question about where to place her son's second position patch.

So, while we may not all agree on the propriety of an adult or youth serving in two positions, surely we can agree that there is no provision in the Insignia Guide for wearing two position patches simultaneously (with the exception of the Musician patch)?

Where does the Insignia Guide state that DC cord cannot be worn at the same time as the DC position patch?

My son was awarded the DC Service Award cord, and he wears that with his DC position patch.

And there was one question begging to be asked that no one mentioned: why is Margaret's son holding down two PORs at the same time?

I guess there's nothing prohibiting that in the BSHB, but ISTM that you can't do justice to either POR if you hold down more than one simultaneously.

I suppose its a good thing no one asked . . .

John, I agree with you, that I need to be more Scout-like in my responses. An old saying goes something like "there's nothing so difficult to remember as what it was like not to know".

Sure, we could have had a one-post response that gave her a direct answer to her question -- but w/o mention of the Insignia Guide, she (or the next person) would be back asking yet another question that could be answered by reference to that document (or some other relevant BSA publication).

Personally, I much prefer an answer that contains citations to an authoritative source -- otherwise I can't tell fact from opinion (informed or not). How much harder will it be for a newbie to make that distinction?

I liken this to NLE -- the purpose of that course isn't to answer all your questions; its to give you the tools so you know where to look. I believe the best answers are the same way -- yes, answer the question, but also give the person asking sufficient info so he or she will know where to look the next time.

And in the particular case of Boy Scouts, I know I went through a difficult time weaning myself away from guiding my son's every move after he crossed over -- I suspect many of us did the same. At some point, Margaret and all other new Boy Scout parents will have to learn that same painful lesson.

Sparing her that info won't make the separation any easier for her, but I certainly could've chosen kinder words for saying so.

If the question is, "Would I recommend Scouting to my friends and neighbors", the answer is "yes".

Your son can wear his Eagle Rank badge as soon as National approves the application forwarded by your Council.

The approval will be effective with the date of his EBOR; the date of his ECOH has nothing to do with it. In fact, an ECOH is optional and not every Eagle Scout wants an ECOH.

Finally, I hope your son will be wearing his Eagle rank patch to NYLT, and not his Eagle medal!

E and GW: didn't your fathers explain "The Rules" to you when you were getting married?

Rule No. 1: The woman is never wrong.

Rule No. 2: When in doubt, refer to Rule No. 1.

I've been married 22 wonderful years and they've been all the happier because I followed "The Rules"!!

My son and I recently transferred from a mega-troop sponsored by our church to a much smaller troop that is actually slightly closer to us.

We made the switch because, despite the fact that we go to the church sponsoring the big troop, my son didn't know any of the boys in the troop, because the church and the troop are located in a different school district. My son knows several of the boys in the smaller troop, because it (and the church) are located in our school district.

I was happy to make the switch if it meant my son (a Life Scout) staying in Scouting -- things got so bad in the mega-troop, he threatened to quit several times. And I've posted here about many of the issues in the larger troop, almost all of them a result of it being an adult-led troop (despite loud and vocal protests to the contrary). One of the first things my son noticed at the smaller troop was how the boys seem to be running everything (that's as it should be).

One irony of leaving the bigger troop where my son apparently had no friends: they voted him into OA this year after not voting him last year.

Make no mistake: just because a troop is big and "successful" doesn't mean everything is rosy and problem-free. And sometimes a smaller troop just makes a better fit for certain boys.

[Cub packs & dens may find some of the suggestions useful]

Born to be wild: 15 outdoor activities for the family

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080414/LIFE/804140314/

http://tinyurl.com/4m96cb

April 14, 2008

DAWN SAGARIO

REGISTER STAFF WRITER

Even though it may not feel like it, spring is technically here.

But officials with the Polk County Health Department and Polk County Conservation are concerned that many kids will stay in front of the TV.

Check out 15 ideas to get the whole family outside:

1. Go on a treasure hunt

2. Look skyward

3. Hit the trail

4. Set up a bird feeder

5. Cast your line

6. Celebrate Earth Day

7. Take supper outside

8. Organize a cleanup

9. Help wildlife in [your] County

10. Plant it

11. Start a collection

12. Start a critter album

13. Check out a Park Pack

14. Let your children help you build a rain garden

15. Search for wildflowers or morel mushrooms

[excerpted; the full article contains a short discussion of each item]

GW: the Musician office doesn't count toward POR, maybe that's why the patch has its own position on the right sleeve.

Margaret, welcome to the Forums.

There's an old saying that if you give a man a fish, you've fed him for a day -- but if you teach a man to fish, you've fed him for life.

That saying is appropriate here because your son needs to learn how to find his own answers, and he's no longer a Cub Scout, so having mom do it for him isn't really the best way for your son to learn.

By the way, the Musician patch isn't really a position patch; as the others have said, consult your Insignia Guide, and encourage the PLC to become familiar with it (if they aren't already).