epalmer84

This issue has cropped up on several Scouting-related Wikipedia articles, but none are referenced so the content does not stick for long. If National had revoked James Dale's Eagle, it would have been very public.

As to receiving Eagle Scout after a long period...

The longest known period between board of review and presentation is for Philo Farnsworth, the inventor of the TV. He would have been 100 in 2006, but he died in 1971.

The oldest known person to have had a board of review was Eugene Cheatham, one of the Tuskegee Airman. He was allowed to have a board of review at age 89.

Ed Palmer

Hmmm... My garters and green tabs are sitting on a shelf here in my office, along with my red beret, merit badge sash and knife.

Ed Palmer

Don't forget that Den Chief training is also available online.

http://olc.scouting.org/

Ed

Mike Judge was on the Wikipedia list a long time ago, but was removed when we could not verify his status. He still appears on some of the mirror copies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Eagle_Scouts_(Boy_Scouts_of_America)

Ed

Here are the BSA requirements:

http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/advancementandawards/meritbadges/trail.aspx

I don't see anything restricting this to any membership level.

Ed Palmer

Let's look at the current version of the U.S. Flag Code as shown by the Government Printing Office:

http://www.access.gpo.gov/uscode/title4/chapter1_.html

Under Sec. 8. Respect for flag., we will find:

"(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations."

That's it. There is no specification for the manner in which the flag patch is worn.

If you want the reference for the U.S. Army, AR 670-1 is available at:

http://www.usapa.army.mil/pdffiles/r670_1.pdf

Page 241 shows:

"(2) The full-color U.S. flag cloth replica is worn so that the star field faces forward, or to the flags own right. When worn in this manner, the flag is facing to the observers right, and gives the effect of the flag flying in the breeze as the wearer moves forward. The appropriate replica for the right shoulder sleeve is identified as the reverse side flag."

So, the military does it one way and the BSA does it another both are correct. What is the fuss?

I found an old photo of some Cub Scouts; one has the flag on the right sleeve and one is wearing it old style with the flag over the right pocket:

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?q=boy+scout+source:life&imgurl=1caf1fb4dc6a4665

Ed P.

The Se Scout website has a new National volunteer org chart:

http://www.seascout.org/for_leaders/organizational_structure/BSA_organization_chart.jpeg

Since Sea Scouts is stuck off by itself, some have interpreted it as Sea Scouting being separated. Frankly, the chart does not make a lot of sense to me; I suspect it is an early chart or something is missing. Also note that the Sea Scouting website is not an official BSA site.

Ed Palmer

Shenandoah is in my council, I don't know anything about Barnhardt or Bud Scheile so I can't give you a comparison. If you have any specific questions, please let me know.

Ed Palmer

WOSM calls it the World Scout Emblem.

"The old requirements for the world crest were abolished in 1989, not 1991."

You are right: I was stationed in Germany at the time, and there was a lot of acrimony when Transatlantic Council put out that everyone could wear the World Crest. I still have my card from earning the WC.

"When Mrs Chug enrols a Beaver Scout (6-8yrs) into her colony, she hands the bright eyed little youngster their World Badge"

For those a bit mystified here: Chug is a member of The Scout Association in the UK. They call it the World Membership Badge and use it as a joining award for each section (membership level) of Beavers, Cubs, Scouts, Explorer Scouts and Scout Network.

Ed Palmer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Scout_Emblem

Congratulations!

There is no official way, but I do it this way:

* Place the thong through the woggle and drop it till it stops at the beads

* Place the thong around your neck

* Put on the neckerchief

* Put the the woggle on the neckerchief and pull the beads down

I keep my neckerchief on a pants hanger so it does not wrinkle with the thong and woggle hanging from it so all it together.

Ed(This message has been edited by epalmer84)

If a Scout appears at a flag ceremony wearing jeans and a t-shirt and salutes, where is the harm? The concept is one of respect to the flag as a symbol or our nation.

Ed Palmer

Early versions are defective the DVD presentation is out of sequence. Call National at 972-580-2538 for replacements.

Ed

Refer to the Advancement Committee Guide #33088. Under Miscellaneous Topics, you will find a section on Youth of Other Nationalities. The Scout must present evidence of membership and advancement, and then must appear before the advancement committee to determine his rank.

Ed

And it is certainly much better than the material the BSA had in our early Boy Scout handbooks. When B-P published Scouting for Boys, quite a bit of content related to sex education was cut by the publisher a lot of that seems quaint by today's standards.

Ed

For a public ceremony, keep it short. Folks who are standing for twenty minutes are not going to be thinking about the flag.

Ed

The case in point is not about the BSA's discriminatory practices, but about the defense of a trademark.

If Wrenn had called it by any other name and used a similar program, I doubt there would have been any issues. Rather intriguing that a trademark attorney would register a trademark like this. Also interesting to note that YouthScouts has not been a registered company in California in over a year.

The documents at the YouthScouts site are intriguing, but pages are missing from the PDF files, so it makes it hard to follow.

http://www.youthscouts.org/districtcourt.html

What really amazed me from some of the transcripts is the lack of historical knowledge on the part of some of our professionals, such as the editor of Scouting.

A partial list of BSA trademarks are at:

http://www.bsalicensing.org/trademarklisting.htm

No one has made much fuss over the BSA protecting their trademark on terms such as pinewood derby, jamboree, Scout Gear and the like.

Ed(This message has been edited by epalmer84)

We were at a Methodist Scouting dinner last night. One of the men at our table was a former BSA DE and is now the camping director with the GSUSA council. Someone asked about men in the GSUSA- he replied that he never had a problem.

Ed

I'm on a T1 and none of the applications were working earlier. The COOB is now working.

Ed

Please strike from my last post:

Now, as to active in a position of responsibility, I have not found a BSA policy or guideline.

I don't have an answer for you on this. The orientation links back to an applications page:

http://www.scouting.org/Applications.aspx

Nothing on that page works; I left feedback for the webmaster. Maybe it will get fixed soon.

Pedantic definition mode (if I don't do it, someone will):

Venture patrol is a Boy Scout patrol program

Venturing is the older membership level (the other levels are Cub Scouting and Boy Scouting; note the active form)

Venturers are the members in Venturing

Venture Scouts are a section in Scouting Ireland

Venturer Scouts are a section in Scouts Australia

Ed

http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/GuideforMeritBadgeCounselors/RankAdvanceFAQ.aspx

Question: For the Star, Life, and Eagle Scout ranks, how is "Be active in your troop and patrol" defined?

Answer: A Scout is considered to be active in his unit if:

1. He is registered in his unit (registration fees are current).

2. He has not been dismissed from his unit for disciplinary reasons.

3. He is engaged by his unit leadership on a regular basis (Scoutmaster conference, informs the Scout of upcoming unit activities, through personal contact, and so on).

The unit leaders are responsible for maintaining contact with the Scout on a regular basis. The Scout is not required to attend any certain percentage of activities or outings. However, unit leaders must ensure that he is fulfilling the obligations of his assigned leadership position. If he is not, then they should remove the Scout from that position.

Now, as to active in a position of responsibility, I have not found a BSA policy or guideline.

In my opinion, active here means as long as the Scoutmaster and SPL allows the Scout to maintain the position. If the Scoutmaster and SPL feel that one of the youth leaders is not doing the job, then that leader should be counseled; if not effective then he should be replaced and counseled again.

You do have to take care to not set the Scout up for failure. The Scoutmaster and SPL have the responsibility to ensure that youth leaders are trained and they understand the duties of their position. The failure of any youth leader reflects back on the Scoutmaster and SPL. While being counseled, the Scout may realize that he cannot perform the job for some reason and will relinquish it.

Ed Palmer

>Actually ed, if you were in the army now you would wear the flag on the right shoulder ABOVE you unit patch. That is the new standard with the ACU (Army Combat Uniform).

Looking at AR 6701, dated 3 February 2005, page 241:

"If the SSIFWTS is worn on the right shoulder of the utility uniform, the full-color U.S. flag cloth replica is placed 1⁄8 inch below the right shoulder sleeve insignia"

Where SSIFWTS is shoulder sleeve insignia former war time service.

Ed

This is where we need a "perennial issue list".

Bottom line: There is no universal regulation on how flag patches are worn. The U.S Flag Code makes no mention of this.

I don't know when it was added to the uniform, but the BSA has been wearing the U.S. flag a lot longer than the current use by the Army.

The wear of the "reverse side full-color U.S. Flag cloth replica" by the U.S. Army is governed by AR 670-1.

http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r670_1.pdf

I was in a Realtor office yesterday; they had a series of photos of relatives in the military. There was a photo of a Marine captain in Marine Corps Combat Utility Uniform. He was wearing a subdued U.S. flag centered on his armored vest above his rank.

I have seen many firefighter and EMS uniforms with the flag worn in the BSA style and some in the reverse style.

BTW: If I were still in the Army, the flag would be worn on my right sleeve under the 1st Cav combat patch.

If you want to pitch a case to change the flag wear, please don't base it on the Army way is the only way.

Ed

>Mexico is actually "The United States of Mexico."

The official name of Mexico is "Estados Unidos Mexicanos", the official English translation is "United Mexican States".

Ed

It is also in the 1967 Fieldbook.

Ed Palmer