AlFansome

Moosetracker-

Check out http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/Alerts/Insurance.aspx

Basically, BSA insurance is primary for registered scouters in most cases. For unregistered volunteers, it's secondary to the personal policies.

Also, check out the last paragraph regarding "Official Scouting Activities". The implication is that you do an activity not allowed by the G2SS, then BSA insurance doesn't kick in.

From page 5 of the Cub Scout Outdoor Program Guidelines at http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/510-631.pdf should provide all the info that you need.

Short answer: One adult must be Safe Swim Defense trained and agree to enforce the plan even at a pool. If a lifeguard is provided by the facility (or hired for the event), then lookouts and Scout lifeguards are not strictly required.

Hopefully, you won't need to be the "rules" guy on everything this pack does (i.e. BALOO required for pack camping, Tour Permits, etc..etc..). It may be the case, though, that the Pack leadership is lax on dotting i's and crossing t's, in which case you'll need to decide which things your going to go to the mat over and how quickly you want to push things. As a Tiger Den leader, you've got years of Cub Scouting ahead of you. Don't burn bridges too quickly...slow and steady and you'll be able to turn around the pack attitudes over time, particularly for things that are a potentially large safety issue.

Finally, just as fyi...you're always "covered" by BSA insurance as a Scout leader on a scout outing. Whether or not BSA insurance (and your personal liability insurance) would be on the hook for $$ in case something goes wrong would be the only thing affected by not following the rules. Follow the rules...less exposure for you and the BSA. You're still covered by insurance either way.

Eagle92-

The Scouter's Training Award is actually for Roundtable Staff (http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34169-60.pdf).

The Boy Scout Leader's Training Award has been that way since 2006 at least (according to the publication date of http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34169-55.pdf).

Same medal and square knot for both, however.

"The SM and ASM, CM, WL, DL devote more of their personal blood sweat and tears to the boys than any other volunteer and should not be lumped in with those who write policy and push paper in the background. "

Wow.

So what about an ASM who's done the following to earn the award....

* Help with two annual unit and/or district Friends of Scouting presentations.

* Participate in six Boy Scout leader roundtables.

* Serve on the staff of a council or district training event.

* Help with two annual unit and/or district Friends of Scouting presentations.

* Fulfill requirements of a troop committee function from the Troop Committee Guidebook.

Do they deserve it? None of those 5 requirements have anything to do with direct boy contact and would typically be the type of requirements that CCs, MCs, and CRs would fulfill to earn the award.

Maybe there should be another award for ASMs-who-help-out-when-needed-but-dont-shed-blood-sweat-or-tears-like-truly-worthy-boy-scout-leaders.

If a pack is using the Tax ID number (TIN) of the CO, then it should not file. In a perfect world, the CO would get the income/expense numbers from the Pack and then roll them into the CO's tax return. Many times, however, the CO just ignores what's going on with the pack with regard to taxes for a variety of reasons.

If a pack is using it's own TIN that its applied for (because the CO doesn't want the pack to use it's TIN or for whatever other reason), then the Pack *should* file a tax return to keep the IRS happy. Most likely the postcard form 990-N is what's required.

You are correct on both. Adults do not wear merit badge sashes (only Order of the Arrow sashes at appropriate times). Tigers (and Wolves and Bears) wear blue uniforms.

Sorry, Beav...you've stepped in it on this one:

From Board of Review Training at http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/18-625.pdf --

"The board of review is a chance for the troop committee or other

adults in the community to get a sense of how the troop is doing and to permit them to offer

support where needed."

And from the same document:

"The Scoutmaster can introduce the Scout to the board members and may sit with him to hear the

boards decision, but should not be present during the actual board of review."

You can of course equivocate and parse "forbidden" and "should" and get all lawyerly on us, but the gist is pretty clear. The BOR is a chance for the Committe to evaluate how the troop is functioning and is typically done outside the presence of SMs and ASMs.

Likewise in our council in the Western region. This year's course was WE3-23-10. Next year, they'll be W3-23-11-1 and W3-23-11-2. (No more 'E' in the 'WE' part, either).

sherm-

Except that WB21C's outdoor experience isn't intended to teach outdoor skills. Cub Leaders don't go to WB21C to learn how to take a pack camping...that's what BALOO is for. WB21C is a leadership training course (whether you agree with the content or focus or not)...it's not an outdoor skills course.

Bart gives good advice...find a resource to get accurate information (or better yet, engage the CO and do what they tell you to do).

For some background...

Here's a link to the IRS website concerning Form 990, which is the form that non-profits file:

http://www.irs.gov/charities/article/0,,id=169250,00.html

In general:

Under $25K in income -- file Form 990-N

Over $25K in income -- file Form 990 or Form 990EZ

Your CO should be the one to tell you how they'd like the Tax ID numbers and tax reporting handled.

It's the single-quote in the Subject that's causing the problem. The code that inserts your post into the database doesn't handle it correctly and causes a syntax error to be thrown after it generates the database 'insert' command.

Remove the single quote in the title and you should be fine. This has been seen many times before...

If the Scouters taking YPT online do not enter their BSA ID into their online profile, Council has no clue that that particular Scouter has taken YPT unless you hand them a printed YPT certificate. As Pack Trainer, I always get the BSA IDs from the Council registrar to give to all my leaders (they are on recharter reports as well). Once the Scouters update their profile with their BSA ID, all is well (as far as training taken online goes).

That being said, however, could it be the case that the folks at Council processing the paperwork always ask for proof of YPT whenever they receive a new app (even if the person assures them they are already YPT trained)?

If you've personally given your YPT cert to Council, however, they shouldn't ask for it again (unless they insist on YPT for each new app presented, of course).

Finally, if you log into your MyScouting account online, you can check Council's (or close to Council's) records for ANY scouter if you have thier BSA ID or if they have a semi-unique name. Click on "Training Validation" on the left and enter the BSA ID, or click advanced search for a bigger search. If Council's asking you for YPT for someone who shows up via this search as having completed YPT, then it's time to complain loudly to Council.

All the info you ever wanted to know about beads and other Wood Badge history is at http://www.scoutbase.org.uk/library/hqdocs/facts/pdfs/fs145001.pdf

From that document:

"When foreign countries established Wood Badge

training after the pattern set by Gilwell, the person

in charge of originating the course was designated

a Gilwell Deputy Camp Chief, representing Gilwell

Park in his own country. According to a tradition

supposedly established by Baden-Powell, that

person could wear fivebeads. Most of these fifth

beads were presented in the 1920s and 1930s but

what happened to them and who wore them is not

known."

Your mileage may vary, but my $.02 as a Chartered Organization Representative for 5 units and as Treasurer of my Kiwanis Club:

- As OakTree says, it's up to the CO as to how much involvement (if any) it has with Pack finances.

- If you use the CO's Tax ID Number (TIN) when opening your bank account (with CO permission of course), then I would advise you to at least make sure the CO treasurer knows about this as a courtesy, in case he/she cares.

- If the CO has more than $25K in income, they generally will need to file a Form 990 (at least) with the IRS as their tax return. (I'm no tax expert, and there are exceptions). You can google form 990 for more info. In my case, our Kiwanis tax return is pages upon pages long for various reasons.

- If you get your own TIN for the Pack, then you wouldn't have any filing requirements in the scenario you mention with such a small amount of income (again, I'm no tax expert).

- Finally, a COs tax year may not end on December 31st. If a CO wants an income/expense statement from the Pack so that they can roll those numbers onto the CO's tax return, the request may come in the middle of the calendar year.

Hope this helps and doesn't add to the confusion!

When I was a Cub leader, I applied for a grant (since the local REI said it was a good thing to do), and got the Peak Pack along with LNT cards and other stuff for free.

Check out http://www.lnt.org/programs/packing_with_PEAK.php for the info...not too bad a process and as I recall, I got the items pretty quickly. As I recall, my goal was to educate X number of Cub Scouts about LNT and then do a service project.

Well, Ed, just because you say so doesn't mean it's true.

If you'd like, you can pretend that I'm Merlyn. I'll ask you for facts to back up your position and you can just keep posting things intended to keep the argument going without adding any value whatsoever to the discussion.

It'll be fun! :-)

Nope! Silent auctions are fine. They are not games of chance (like a raffle).

http://www.scoutingmagazine.org/issues/9910/a-ksmp.html#sbarc

See also for another OK auction...

http://www.scoutingmagazine.org/issues/0711/a-projects.html#sbar1

(This message has been edited by AlFansome)

As the Chartered Representative of a Kiwanis club that charters 5 scout units, I can tell you that an "in general" impression of an organization as a whole is not what you're looking for. Rather, you need to look at "specifcally" how interested your local club is in sponsoring/chartering/operating/owning your Pack.

A few questions:

- Are there any Scouters, ex-Scouts, Eagle Scouts or anyone else with a connection to BSA in either of the clubs you are considering?

- Does the mission of those clubs (their activities, outreach, and general civic role) fit into what you think you'd like for your Pack? That is, do they do community service work or are they just a social club, for example.

- How interested is the Board of Directors (or other governing unit) of the club in sponsoring a scout pack? Have you showed them the typical Charter Agreement (google "charter agreement scout") between the Council and Chartered Organization so they can see what an active CO does for it's units?

If all you want is an uninterested rubber stamp, then just charter yourselves as a "Parents of Pack xxxx" and avoid bothering the clubs at all. If you really want an involved partner in delivering scouting to your boys, then consider the questions above.

(This message has been edited by AlFansome)

You need to think like a programmer at National...very counter-intuitively. As usual, the interface is lacking in clarity.

You need to go to the bottom and click on the "Contact Person" check box. This will un-check the "Council information" check box and you'll then be able to update the fields on top. Checking and un-checking the boxes at the bottom will cause different things to be displayed on your google pin on the map.

Luckily, the preview box on the lower right works well..keep playing with things until you like what you see.

Ours are now after one fire drill and manual clean up a year or two ago. Lately, any and all on-line training has been entered perfectly, while the in-person stuff is handled pretty well as well.

As an fyi, you can now check yours (or anyone else's!) ScoutNet training record by going to http://myscouting.scouting.org/, logging in, and clicking on "Training Validation" on the left in gray. I've got 4 pages listed if I query on my BSA id or MyScouting username. Advanced search works well if you don't know a person's BSA id, although you need to be specific in order to avoid having more than one person returned from your query (which will throw an error).

In our area:

AdvanceCamp: One or two-day local event with a merit badge midway designed for fast merit badge advancement.

Webel-o-ree: One night camp designed to have Webelos earn 3-4 outdoor activity pins (Forester, Geologist, Outdoorsman, etc.) plus one more (i.e. Showman)

Webelos Weekend: Held on Friday/Saturday night at the end of and between Boy Scout summer camp weeks at the Council camp. No advancement per se, just the run of the Boy Scout camp between sessions.

L.E.A.D: Leader Education and Development. A combination PowWow and Univ. of Scouting for all program levels including Venturing.

Placement of veteran unit emblems:

From http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/11.aspx:

"Veteran insignia. Veteran insignia is affixed to unit and local council flags midway between the top and bottom of the flag and midway between the pole and the flag emblem."

So, as you look at your flag, it's to the left of center of the flag.

As Eagle92 says, there may have been lapses in the unit registration that reset the clock on veteran unit status. The easiest way to verify the unit's tenure is to check last year's recharter report. In the upper right corner of the first page will be a field labeled "Tenure" with the number of months tenure that your council has recorded for the unit. Depending on the report format, it may also be listed about 2/3 of the way down the first page on the left in a field labeled "XXX Months Completed Tenure".

Alternately, a quick call to your Council registrar will get you the information as well.

ah yes...just what is needed after 14 hours of day one of WE3-23-10! Although, I must say that BEARS are particularly good leaders!

FWIW, here's a scan of a page from a recent version of the BSA liability policy that I found on some Council's web site a while back.

http://www.palmerpack215.com/upldDocuments/Unit134/2009%20liability%20ins.%20for%20charter%20partners.pdf

Note the wording "Official Scouting Activity" is again used with regard to coverage. Now, if we had a more official definition of that term than a BSA web page, then there'd be more certainty about when there'd be some exposure.

Or at least, enough fodder for the lawyers to start arguing about it. :-)

As a Chartered Rep for 5 units, I had seen that passage a few months ago and immediately send it on to my Committee Chairs and Unit Leaders (more as a reinforcement of what I've been telling them already than anything "new"). I don't recall that strong of a wording in the past...looks like it might have been strengthened recently.