AlFansome

Oak Tree-

My point was that if you don't pull a permit, you're still covered. Whether or not you do the proper prep and whether or not you pull a permit doesn't affect the coverage which will still be in force, as you say.

Guess it didn't come across clearly when I typed it.

From a posting by BSA on Facebook:

"Here they are! Final requirements for the new Geocaching Merit Badge: http://bit.ly/9eos7v. Learn more about the Merit Badge, Get in the Game!, and using geocaching to recruit and retain members at Geocaching to Promote Scouting, Philmont Training Center June 6-12. Register online at MyScouting.org, under Event Registration. Open to all programs and experience levels."

Direct link:

http://ww2.scouting.org/100years/100years/sitefiles/1000/YourSource/PlanningTools/Geocaching/Geocaching_MB.pdf

I thought the badge was originally called GPS/GIS or something similar? Is it now officially "Geocaching"?

Scouterclaude-

The basic fact still remains that if do your appropriate preparation and do everything that's required by a Tour Permit (and yet don't actually pull the permit), you are still covered by insurance. Not pulling a permit doesn't change that. Likewise, if your Council (not a trainer) says directly that you don't need a Tour Permit for such-and-such outing, then you also don't need a tour permit in order to be protected.

For better or worse, right or wrong, there are lots of shades of gray in this area and BSA has yet to make it explicity clear when a permit is needed and what the repercussions are (or could be) if you don't pull one.

If you feel that this is an issue and wish to convince the leaders in your Pack to adopt a policy that Tour Permits are alwayws required, then that's a good thing IMHO.

Scouterclaude-

The GTSS does not require a Tour Permit for a unit outing. It says that it's "important". It does not say "required", "mandatory", or "necessary".

Why is it "important"? So that your Unit leadership follows the process and dots its i's and crosses its t's, as I've described before.

It would be nice if there were more specific guidelines from Council, National or both, but unfortunately, that's not the case.

You as a unit leader are more than welcome to insist on Tour Permits for each and every outing and make it a Pack policy, since it's a vital part of planning a safe outing. However, the trainer was accurate in saying that they are not specifically required (unless your Council or your Unit does have such a policy in place).

"high and dry"? Not really.

As I understand it, a Local Tour Permit (when required by Council) is a tool that is used to make sure that the tour leaders are following BSA policies and guidelines with regard to training, GTSS, and other safety items as listed on the Tour Permit.

If you get a Tour Permit, then you are assured (and Council has confirmed) that you have followed guidelines as prescribed by the BSA and/or your Council.

However, if you do NOT get a Tour Permit, yet still DO follow all the guidelines, then (from an insurance perspective) not much changes. Insurance coverage remains in full effect and your leaders are covered, since the Tour Permit is merely a tool to confirm that you've followed the guidelines, not a document that is required for insurance purposes. (If anyone can find something to the contrary on National's site or documentation, please contradict me, as I've never seen anything to that effect.)

Now, if something were to happen on the outing, and you followed the guidelines on the Tour Permit, but you did not get the Tour Permit, you're still covered by insurance, but would certainly get a little more scrutiny that if you had dotted the i's and crossed the t's and gotten the tour permit ahead of time.

FWIW, in our Council, if I try to get a tour permit for a den outing to a local fire station, I get the evil eye from the secretary at council for wasting her time. Typically, it's for out-of-council or overnight events or anything that would involve any sort of non-field trip experience (hike, service project, etc..). Even then, I've never been able to get a definitive answer either way from Council...we just try to avoid the evil eye!

Yes, typically a Pack will not duplicate den numbers across levels as you suggest. Is is a rule or requirement? No, but it's convenient to avoid confusion, which is why it's done that way.

Also, when done that way, a new tiger den might be den 4 or den 3 and not necessarily den 1 since '1' and '2' may already be used for older boys. As a den ages out or stops using a den number, its number gets used by a new incoming den. This is about the only thing that I've seen people question with regard to den numbers...might be why your group does it the way it does.

FWIW...in my son's old pack, we never used den numbers at all, since we always had 1 den per grade. All the boys came from a small, private school and we never had more than one den per grade. In our case, it was just the Tigers, Wolves, Bears, and whatever the 2 Webelos dens called themselves.

They are a den. The word "patrol" is not in the Cub Scout vocabulary. When they pick a name, it's a den name. If/when they pick an emblem for their right sleeve if they wear the green uniforms, then it's a den emblem. When they make a flag or come up with a yell, it's a den flag and a den yell.

There are 2 types of charters:

1) The BSA grants a charter to Councils to administer the BSA program in a geographic area.

2) The BSA (on recommendation of a local Council) grants a charter to a local organization to use the Scouting program

This info from:

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/Relationships/TrainingtheCOR/03.aspx

Also, here's an example of the charter application between National and a local Council:

http://www.wrbsa.org/professionals/miscellaneous/2009%20Application%20for%20Council%20Charter%20Renewal.pdf

There's more info on the BSA charters to Councils in the National Bylaws as well. You can sort of make it out in the slow-loading, redacted version at:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/8919588/Charter-and-Bylaws-of-the-Boy-Scouts-of-America

I'd wear the brimmed hat if it came in my size. I've got a fat head (literally!) at 8 1/4. Typically need an XXL or so, which that hat doesn't come in.

If anyone knows of a close substitute, let me know!

Luckily, the centennial green uniform cap fits great, so that's what I wear.

03/17/2010

http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2010/03/update-bsa-historic-merit-badge-program.html

"You may have heard rumors that the Historic Merit Badge Program has been canceled. Not true.

What is true is that the BSA is putting finishing touches on the program now, and the end result will be well worth the wait.

The Youth Development team plans to release the program soon, and once that happens, it will consist of much more than just adding Signaling, Tracking, Pathfinding, and Carpentry to 2010s list of available merit badges.

The team wants todays Scouts to get a sense of what Scouts in the 1910s experienced. They want Scouts to earn the merit badges in ways similar to those used by Scouts back then. The world has changed drastically in 100 years, but the fundamental lessons of these merit badges have not.

In the spirit of being green and making the program accessible, you wont be able to get printed materials for the merit badges. Instead, have your Scouts go to scouting.org.

Theyll have access to scans of the original pamphlets for each of the four historic merit badges. However, because the language and techniques used in those badges comes from the early 20th century, the BSA has been hard at work crafting supplements that will help put the requirements in a modern context.

The site also offers program implementation guide, a camporee guide, a Boy Scout resident camp guide, a training session guide, press releases, and other materials that councils, districts, and units can use to promote the program.

Stay tuned to Cracker Barrel for additional news as we get it."

You can also combine e-mail and texting as well. In order to send an e-mail out that gets received as a text on someone's cell phone, you can use the following e-mail address formats, depending on the cell phone company. (phonenumber will be the full 10-digit number including area code, so a Verizon customer's e-mail address would be 2125551212@vtext.com)

If indeed a youth member prefers texts over e-mails, then ask for his/her cell number and carrier and use that in your e-mail list.

US Cellular: phonenumber@email.uscc.net

AT&T: phonenumber@txt.att.net

T-Mobile: phonenumber@tmomail.net

Virgin Mobile: phonenumber@vmobl.com

Cingular: phonenumber@cingularme.com

Sprint: phonenumber@messaging.sprintpcs.com

Verizon: phonenumber@vtext.com

Nextel: phonenumber@messaging.nextel.com

SunCom: phonenumber@tms.suncom.com

Powertel: phonenumber@ptel.net

Alltel: phonenumber@message.alltel.com

Metro PCS: phonenumber@MyMetroPcs.com

CPAMom-

From your location that you entered when you registered, you and your son are in the Cherokee Area Council based in Chatanooga:

Cherokee Area (TN) Council

6031 Lee Highway

Chattanooga, TN 37421-2930

Phone: (423) 892-8323

Web Site: http://www.cherokeeareabsa.com

Go to http://www.thescoutzone.org/locator.html and enter your zip code. You'll be presented with a list of troops in your local area. (I've listed them below). Also, check just over the border in Tennessee as well by entering a zip code from up north a bit. If any of these are convenient to your location, I suggest you visit a few more troops to see if there are others in the area that may have a more robust program for your son. Contacting the council at the above number would be the best way to get contact info for the specific troops.

Chickamauga, GA

Troop 64 Elizabeth Lee United Methodist Church

Troop 224 Oakwood Baptist Church

Flintstone, GA

Troop 211 LDS Church Chattanooga Valley

Troop 316 Flintstone Baptist Church

Fort Oglethorpe, GA

Troop 17 Fort Oglethorpe United Methodist

Troop 52 First Presbyterian Church

La Fayette, GA

Troop 1 First Baptist Church

Troop 70 Lafayette Rotary Club

Ringgold, GA

Troop 71 Graysville United Methodist Church

Troop 77 Kiwanis Club Of Ringgold

Troop 99 Ringgold United Methodist Church

Troop 208 Boynton United Methodist Church

Rising Fawn, GA

Troop 29 New Salem United Methodist Church

Rock Spring, GA

Troop 15 Rock Spring Produce

Troop 125 Rock Spring United Methodist Church

Trenton, GA

Troop 84 Trenton United Methodist Church

Troop 143 Optimist Club Of Trenton/Dade County

Don't have dates, but there's some info on the changes at http://scouting.org/filestore/training/ppt/what'snewinleadershipdevelopment.ppt

which can be found via the link at the bottom of March's training update at http://scouting.org/training/trainingupdates.aspx

Also, leadershipbsa@gmail.com seems to be a good contact for info on the new courses.

Check out http://scouting.org/training/trainingupdates.aspx for the March training updates.

- draft syllabus of co-ed NYLT available for the asking

- Venturing now open to 13 year olds (if they've completed 8th grade) --OR-- 14 year olds

- two Powerpoint presentations available at the bottom of the page concerning new/updated training courses and also the required training initiative that's being rolled out.

Snippets from the slides to chew on:

------------------------------------

1) Program-neutral training:

- Other than the specifics of how to do your job unit leadership training, ALL of our leadership courses will be open to all Programs and will be program-neutral

- This means Coed

- Proper age specific program 18 year old youth may choose NYLT or Wood Badge (but Wood Badge is probably better)

2) Regarding co-ed NYLT and NAYLE:

-All Youth Protection guidelines must be followed

-Mix of Programs and genders on teams preferred (use buddy or Truddy [3-deep] system)

-Attendees can SLEEP in different places with no proven impact on patrol method

-As with boy only small age spread within teams preferred (ie dont mix 13 yr old boys with 17 year old boys or girls)

- Many councils have been doing this for years with NO issues

- Philmont treks and Sea Base also coed

- Common outcome is raised performance for both males and females

3) Wood Badge syllabus changes:

- New Presentations on Diversity/Inclusiveness (Day 2), Communications Patrol

and Generations (Day 4, replaces original Diversity session)

- We are testing a new Patrol Project idea in January if successful, you may have the option to use this in 2010

4) WB (and other) Beads:

- Wood Badge, NYLT, NAYLE and PLC staff are all eligible to earn 3 and 4 beads

- Guidelines in the new NYLT syllabus

- Quartermaster can earn 3 beads

- Course Director may earn 3 beads if they do not qualify for 4 (ie NYLT CD may not have been WB Troop Guide and so not eligible 4 beads)

- Course Director Conference attendance REQUIRED of Course Director for ANY staff to get beads

- New Certificate in production

5) Mentoring:

- A new course on Mentoring is under development

- This Mentoring course is required for the new Leadership Society Award, which is open to Boy Scouts and Venturers

Oak Tree-

Depends on the tax status of the fraternal organization. If 501©(3), then tax deductible as a charitable expense. If 501©(4), then no, not as charitable, but perhaps for a business deduction. My Kiwanis Club sponsors 5 units and we're 501©(4). The process to create a 501©(3) charitable foundation is in process, but until then, donations made by our parents or the community to our units aren't (technically) deductible as charitable expenses.

See http://www.lectlaw.com/files/tax13.htm for lots of details.

Also, I'm in no way a professional in this area, so feel free to ignore and discount everything I've just said! :-)

Make sure to celebrate Pi Day on Sunday with a slice of your favorite...

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/03/12/pi.day.math/index.html

...and in our Council, we've merged PowWow and University of Scouting into L.E.A.D (Leader Education and Development). Gives a chance for CS and BS and Venturing leaders to mix, as well as the opportunity to take classes across the spectrum, which is helpful if transitioning from CS to BS or from BS to Venturing or to a district position. Going to LEAD counts the same as going to Pow Wow with regard to knot recognitions.

...and LNT Trainer and troop Webmaster are new PORs for Star, Life and Eagle.

SMT224-

Hypothetically, what happens when a boy is using a previous book and gets to filling out his Eagle Application and realizes that he doesn't qualify because the requirements have changed?

How do you handle older scouts teaching new or added requirements to the younger scouts when they don't have the current books?

Do you allow older scouts to use new PORs for Star, Life and Eagle since those new PORs are not in their older books?

Seems like things are complicated either way...

From the "Cub Scout Leader Book" 2005, Second Printing on page 33-4:

"Webelos Scout overnight campouts introduce the boy and his parent or guardian to the basics of the Boy Scout camping program..... In most cases, the Webelos Scout will be under the supervision of a parent or guardian. In all cases, each Scout is responsible to a specific adult."

Further, from page 21-9 of the same book in the "Webelos Den Overnight Campouts" section:

"If a parent or guardian cannot attend, the boy's family should make arrangements for one of the other parents or another adult relative to be a substitute at the campout. It is essential that each Webelos Scout is under the supervision of an adult and that every adult has a share of the responsibilit for the campout."

As you can see, a parent is NOT required by the program laid out by BSA. An uncle, aunt, grandma or grandpa who is a guardian or is designated by the boy's parents are perfectly acceptable, in general, in addition to "one of the other parents".

Now, can a Pack make up their own rules that are more restrictive? Yes, they can. Does it make sense to do so? Usually not, unless there's been some sort of issue in the past.

You say that 3 dads brought 2 children. Were both children Webelos Scouts? If this is truly a Webelos campout, the intent is to get Webelos-age boys on the transition path to Boy Scouts with Webelos-only activities (while still under the supervision of a parent or guardian). It's not intended to be a family campout with younger siblings.

In my opinion, if this leader is the Webelos Den Leader, you need to go up the chain (as it were) and talk to the Cubmaster and the Pack Committee Chairperson. If you are unfamiliar with the organization of the pack, there is a clickable chart at http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/AboutCubScouts/ThePack.aspx with all the info on each position.

Lay out your case that BSA docs mention that it's allowed (and certainly not prohibited) and ask if this is indeed the Pack's policy. Hopefully, the Cubmaster and/or Committee Chair see your side of it and further campouts won't be run under the same (seemingly arbitrarily enforced) "rules".

Regarding Lifesaving and Emergency Preparedness...

From the Eagle Application, requirement 3:

*6 EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS OR LIFESAVING

*Cross out badges not earned. If a crossed-out badge was earned, it may be reentered in 13 through 21.

Same thing goes for "*9 CYCLING OR HIKING OR SWIMMING", where one is required for Eagle, and the other two can be used as electives (if earned).

Better yet, check out the Eagle Scout application at http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/512-728_web.pdf

If the young man can fill all the spaces on "Requirement 3" appropriately, then the merit badge requirement has been satisfied regardless of in which order or for what rank the badges have been used before.

You can read Dale's own words here:

http://www.salon.com/people/feature/2000/07/17/dale/

Or, send him a message on Facebook:

http://www.facebook.com/jamesdale

WCS-

It's an interpretation thing. The only sentences that directly address this are like the one that SctDad points out from the award's progress record:

"Dates of service used to earn this award cannot be used to earn another key or award."

This has been discussed before on the board and the majority opinion then was that if you are in multiple, registered positions in different units (or at the district level), then you basically have two or more tenure "clocks" running at the same time. So, time in as a District Committee member would count towards that knot and time as a Cub Leader would count towards a Cubbing knot, even if you hold both position at the same time.

As an example, I'm a new ASM in my son's troop and also continuing on as the Pack Trainer in the pack my son just bridged out of. IMHO, I could work towards both the Scouter's Training Award and the Pack Trainer Award at the same time. Some would disagree.

The one thing we can all agree on (I think) is that you can't double-dip and try to count one year as Den Leader towards BOTH the Den Leader Award and the Cub Scouter Award.

From the BOR Training Module at http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/TrainingModules/BoardofReviewTraining.aspx:

"Some reasons to have a board of review may include a Scout's lack of advancement, perceived trouble in the troop, or a certain event at the last campout or troop meeting. Ideally, a Scout should sit for a board of review every six months, whether he is advancing or not."