Eamonn

Fellow Forum Members. I do think if we want to discuss other parts of the Scout Oath and Law, the right thing to do would be to spin off and start and new thread. As for the personal attacks? Maybe a thread on a Scout is kind? Eamonn.

Have him find out as much as he can about as much as possible before he takes the job. How much will he be paid? What time off will he get? When is he expected to be where and wearing what? If these sound a little daffy? They are things that we have had problems with at camp with people on staff. Make him aware that he enters into an agreement that states how much he will be paid. It's his choice if he is willing to take it or not. If he agrees it doesn't matter what other people are being paid. As for the interview, it is a great learning experience for a young fellow. He needs to go looking neat and clean. Remove any body piercings. Sound enthusiastic about wanting the job. Be honest. Don't be shy. Remember he is selling himself not his Dad!! Make the interviewer aware of any special needs he might have or commitments that have been made that might interfere with him being at camp for the entire camp. Be polite. Remember to breathe!! That along with a few prayers and I'm sure he'll be fine. Eamonn.

I have lost count of the times that as OJ was growing up Her Who Must Be Obeyed said "Boys are washable!" Because kids are kids they are supposed to get dirty. Some dirt might even be healthy for a kid!! But hand washing is so very important that we do need to stress it and ensure that Scouts do wash their hands before handling food and after using the rest room. The part of the Scout Law that deals with being clean is open to all sorts of interpretations. Sometimes I worry that we the adults do tend to "Over-load" the meanings of the Scout Law. I find that looking back to what I did and what I got up to as a kid does at times help prevent me from becoming a sanctimonious old poop! There is a time and a place to be washed, neat and tidy and there are times when being washed neat and tidy just isn't that important. As an organization that tries to teach ethical choices, having Scouts know when it's important and when it's not is the big thing. Eamonn.

Before the 21st Century course came along the Scoutmaster or the Cubmaster had the final word at the course on ticket approval. This changed when the 21st Century course came along. Now the Troop Guide has the last word. He or She does work or is supposed to work closely with the ASM Troop Guides. The other experienced staff members are also on hand to give a hand when needed. Before the participants leave to go home from the course a Ticket Counselor is supposed to be provided for each participant. Some Councils do have a Wood Badge Coordinator who works with the Course Director, some Councils leave this to the Council Training Chairman and some leave it all to the Course Director. Pre 21st Century all changes to a Ticket had to be approved by the Scoutmaster or the Cubmaster. Now days the home Ticket Counselor can approve changes. Selecting the right Ticket Counselor for the participant is not an easy task. A lot of times the person who on the course served as Troop Guide will take on being the home Ticket Counselor. If there is such a thing as an ideal Ticket Counselor? He or She will be: Trained to do the job and understand how the Ticket is part of the course. Understand that the Ticket is the participants Ticket and that he or she owns it. Be someone local, who understands what is going on locally and is easy to get hold of if need be. Have time to meet with and work with the participant. Have a understanding of the position and the section that the participant is serving in and their role in Scouting. The home Ticket Counselor does approve that the ticket has been completed within the time limit. If problems arrive?? As a rule the Course Director is the person to contact. When the home Ticket Counselor gives the final approval, the Course Director should be the person who contacts the participants Council and notifies them that the participant has completed the course. Different Course have different ways of managing how the certificate and Wood Badge regalia reach the participant. Some courses do not include the costs involved and go back to the participant and ask for him/her to pay for the regalia. When I served as CD, I ordered all the certificates and regalia before the course started. When a Ticket Counselor contacted me to let me know that someone had completed their Ticket, I contacted my Scout Service Center. The registrar updated that persons training record on Scoutnet, someone in the Service Center printed the persons name on the certificate. I then contacted the participant and found out when and where they were going to have their Beading Ceremony. I asked who they wanted to present them with their beads? I then made sure that the person they wanted to do the presentation had all the regalia and the certificate in time for the ceremony. We didn't have any problems with any of our Ticket Counselors on the course I directed. In the past we have had Counselors who have gone MIA. When this happens the Course Director can ask someone to step in and take on the job. Many moons back, I was working on my Cub Scout Trainer Wood Badge Ticket. As a ticket item I had planned to do something at Pow Wow. As it happened Pow Wow that year was canceled. There was a chance that it might be canceled the following year. I was worried that if this happened my ticket would be not be able to be completed. The old Cub Scout course was offered by the Region. I needed the approval of the Cubmaster to change the ticket. Being as I'm in the NE-Region, which covers the Transatlantic Council, she was somewhere in Germany changing the ticket was a real headache. I'm not sure I'd use the term "Keep tabs"? I know I kinda encouraged the Troop Guides on the course to encourage the members of the patrol they were working with to really think about their tickets, making them take time to grasp what their Vision and Mission really were and set goals that were worth while and did stretch the participants. My hope was that the Tickets didn't become just a list of everyday things that would be done anyway. When the course was over I did make copies of all the tickets. Not to be nosy or make any real judgment on them. (What was done was done and no matter what I thought the Tickets had been approved) I did notice that all the tickets from one patrol were just not good. It became very clear that the Troop Guide just hadn't got it. He was from another Council (Ours is a cluster course). I waited a few weeks and went for a drink with him and when I talked to him about this, he still just didn't understand this vision and mission thing. I met with the ASM Troop Guides and She said that she had really tried to work with him, but kept getting no where. She put it down to him thinking that because he served in Venturing that he thought he was some kind of a rebel?? I did contact the Training Chair from his Council and had a word with him, I also contacted the guy who serves on our Area Committee and made the suggestion that he not be asked to serve on a Wood Badge course again. I did notice that when the time came for his Council to host a course he was named as a Staff member. Sadly the course never got off the ground due to not enough people signing up. -I had nothing to do with that!! (Honest) My hope would be that the person who serves as the home ticket counselor and the participant form a relationship that goes far beyond the ticket and that the counselor is someone who is willing to take the participant under their wing for a very long time. Eamonn.

I'm with Dan. There is no such thing as the ideal uniform. Different troops participate in different activities and some do more outdoor "Stuff" than others. I kinda think if you were to look at the programs offered by say 15 -20 Troops, you would find that the amount of time spent doing activities that require a special uniform is not that great. I'm not and never have been more than the average type Scout. While I do seem to spent a lot of time in outdoor type stores buying the latest and newest equipment, at a normal everyday Boy Scout camp I'm happy with a t-shirt, pair of shorts and a decent pair of boots or shoes. I did invest in a good quality gore-tex rain suit. I have over the past year started wearing Cool-Max t-shirts. I like them a lot, but even buying them with a discount they cost about five times more than a normal everyday t-shirt. So for camp I'd be fine with the everyday cheap shirt that most camps sell with the name of the camp on it. I don't like hats or caps, but depending on the weather do wear one. I have a couple of campaign hats left over from my Wood Badge days. They are about useless, having to put a rain cover on a hat? Just seems silly to me. They require far more care and attention than a hat should ever need. When we were at Philmont OJ wanted the Philmont shorts, so I bought him a couple of pair, he grew out of them and I got his hand me downs. They are nice shorts, but to be honest for what I do the everyday Boy Scout shorts do just as well. I'm not really sure what the ideal anything is? I have been thinking about buying a new car. There are a lot of different cars out there. Before I buy one I need to put my emotions to one side and look at what I'm really going to use it for? How much I'm willing to spend? How much is it going to cost to run and maintain? A 15 seater van would be nice for the Ship, but am I willing to drive a 15 seater van to work and back everyday? A Hummer would be great for off-roading, but I don't go off-roading!! A Smart-Car looks like fun and is cheap, but is very small. Before we say something is "Ideal" we need to look at what we are going to use it for and how often it is going to be used. It seems to me that a lot of Scouts in our area seem to think that a pair of blue jeans and a Scout shirt is ideal for just about everything!! Eamonn.

As a practicing Roman Catholic, I make every effort to attend Mass and fulfill my obligation. I very rarely if ever miss going to Mass either on Saturday evening or on Sunday. I do remind all of our Scouts about going to church over the weekend and invite the RC Scouts to tag along with me. If for some reason we are unable to make a service over a weekend activity, we are fortunate that we live close enough to the local Cathedral where there is an evening Mass on Sunday. The RC Scouts do know about this and depending on what time we arrive home, they can if we are home in the afternoon make their own arrangements or if we are running late I'll offer to give them a ride. At this time the Ship doesn't have any Scouts who belong to what might be called out of the ordinary religions. A lot of times some of the non -catholic Scouts will opt to attend mass with us. I'm not sure if the fact that I normally stop and bet a bite to eat after Mass has anything to do with this? Back when I was Scouting in London the Troop was a lot bigger and the Scouts belonged to a good many different religions. It wasn't always possible to accommodate the religious needs of everyone. The Scouts and their parents were aware of this and they decided what they wanted to do or not do. I and the Troop of course respected their wishes. When OJ was a Boy Scout if he participated in an event that meant that he missed Mass, we would go to the Sunday evening service, of course when he was older and could drive himself things were easier. Being that we live in an area where a lot of people have Italian or Polish roots, most of the time Mass or getting the Scouts to Mass was included in the program. I would hope that Troops where a lot of the Scouts do belong to certain religion would have adults who also belong to that religion and the programs offered would allow for this. Eamonn

Not trying to hijack the thread or anything. But... I have never played laser tag and as of now have no plans to play. I'm also not into video games. OJ has over the years managed to somehow get me to buy some of this stuff. Right now he has an X-Box 360. One of the games that seems to be very popular (OJ doesn't have it!) is Halo. At several local OA/Scouting events,Halo competitions have been held. Isn't Halo a war game? (I'm asking because I don't know!) Eamonn.

I'm sure the old Lad and his Mrs. Appreciated it. During EuroJam, Gill Clay, the granddaughter of Lord Baden-Powell, took to the skies at Gilwell.The founders granddaughter was seen climbing Gilwell Parks newest activity High Ropes. Gill, who is in her late sixties, climbed the 12-metre pole with more ease than a lot of people half her age, and launched herself onto the trapeze. Wish I'd been there to see it, Eamonn.

The UK ScoutBase has lots of games of every sort for all age groups. http://www.scoutbase.org.uk/direct/games/ Have fun Eamonn.

As ever I could be way off base. Still it sometimes seems to me that a lot of people would be happy if they or maybe somebody else?? Were accountable to someone or if there were some consequence for not doing things by the book. This might of course be what OGE is getting at in the Thread "No Uniform Required"? Some seem to think or want the BSA to have a policy on anything and everything!! I do think or like to think that I know what we have in place now and how it is supposed to work. I really disagree about the " The local BSA professional" I might agree with a SE but I think most DE's don't know that much. (Yes there are exceptions to every rule, but the turn over of DE's in some Councils is just too great.) Beavah, I'm not sure who you mean when you say: " whoever is ready to accept legal and financial responsibility" Could you explain? Maybe I need to eat a little more fish!! Ea.

I think I remember reading in The Two Lifes Of A Hero,by William Hillcourt that BP and Kipling didn't know each other, but met on a boat crossing the Atlantic. It was on this trip that Kipling gave the OK for Cub Scouts to use the Jungle Book. Baden Powell was 100% against younger boys being members of Boy Scout Troops, in fact from what I have read, it seems to me that he viewed Cub age boys as a bit of a pain in the neck. Ea.

Victonate I'll bet that things didn't get to where they are now overnight? So with that in mind, change isn't going to happen at a great rate of knots. While you might have right on your side and it sounds like you do!! You might also be suffering from the "Training High". Cut the SM a little bit of slack. Find a nice way to tell his Lady wife that you do appreciate the help she gives to the Troop, but at the same time tell her to go take a very long hike!! (In a nice way!!) Look at what isn't right and find ways of supporting the SM that will bring about change. Become the resourse guy. Find materials that might help him, find (select) people to come on board and give him a hand. Look for the things he does well and don't be scared of giving him a pat on the back. Sure at times you will have to bite your lip and maybe count to ten or even one hundred. Take it one step at a time and most of all try and enjoy the good things along the way. After all in many ways you set the tone!! Eamonn.

"there is no testing and no enforcement of program standards unless somebody steps seriously out of line on something in a way that attracts public attention. " This is of course right. But it got me thinking. If there were to be some kind of enforcement? Who would the job fall too? Eamonn.

Not to take away anything that I said in what I posted. I have been blessed to have as a very dear and close friend one of the greatest Scout Leaders I have ever met. He has held just about every important Scouting Office that anyone can back in the UK. I however got to know him when he was still a everyday Scout Leader. He does know the program, he is a wonderful Trainer of Scouter's, but more than all of this he just seems to have way with kids. He knows how to talk with them and knows how to inspire them. He is also very good at bringing young Scouter's on board and making them feel that they are wanted and needed along with having them feel that they are doing a great job. I have known him for a very long time, in fact since I was a Venture Scout. He took me under his wing when I first became Scout Leader of the 17th Fulham. Over the years he has been my role model, my Scouting hero, my mentor, my friend. I love him dearly. While I'm maybe starting to think that I'll never be as good as he is. I do know that I learned more from just being around him and having him as a friend than I have from any training. He of course is all for training, in fact he was on staff when I took my WB at Gilwell back in 1975. Training is very important, but when you find someone like my friend that can show you the way. You are really blessed, even if at times you are green with envy. Yes Barry I do love this Scouting stuff. Eamonn.

No way am I guilty!! Cub Scouting and the real Jungle Book,not the Disney movie, did hail from my side of the pond. But the number of times I have been asked "Do you have Thanksgiving in England?" is almost countless. My normal reply is "No, we didn't have the Native American Indians, but Englishmen were the first to celebrate it!" Ea.

Hi Barry, While of course no two years are ever the same. In what might be called a normal year. (Last year was far from normal!!) For the District I serve: We "Lose" about 200 -225 Cub Scouts each year. About 70 -75 cross over and become Boy Scouts. School Sign Up Night in September brings in 125 -150. This Spring Tiger recruitment has in the past brought in 40 -50 of the little fellows. There is no real way of knowing if these boys would or wouldn't join in the fall. The thinking is that a Bird in the hand.. The history of this recruitment in the District is that I started this recruitment not long after Tigers started in the late 80's?? It was a District event held at one location. We managed to recruit something like 20 Tigers. It ran this way for several years and then we changed it so we had 3 recruitments going on at the same time. One in each school district. One area had a problem with finding a location, so they moved to the local YMCA. Somehow over the years that I haven't been around it has morphed into a Scoutoree. The feeling was why stop at Tigers? Why not all Cub Scouts? And if we are going to have Cub Scouts,? Why not include Boy Scouts? In a lot of ways it became a one day Camporee where no one camped?? The first year it did a fair job of high lighting Scouting in the District and the sales from hot dogs and snacks were good. But it never managed to do a good job of recruiting. It is also very close in date to the District Boy Scout Spring Camporee. I'm now changing it back to the school district recruitment. Of course a lot of the people who were in favor of the big Scoutoree Type event are a little upset. It seems that the past District Chairman and DE didn't use budgets and the money made from the sales of snacks was used to buy stuff for Day Camp. Which didn't have a budget!! Eamonn.

The UK ScoutBase Library does a good job of looking back. http://www.scoutbase.org.uk/library/history/cubs/ Johnny Walker's Scouting Milestones is also very good: http://www.scouting.milestones.btinternet.co.uk/index.htm You do need to scroll down a bit and find the link!! There is a really nice photo of Colin Walker's son in his uniform, which is very much the same uniform I wore when I first joined as a Wolf Cub. Back then even I was a cute little fellow!! (No comments from the peanut gallery please!!) Eamonn

I was invited today to attend the kick off luncheon for our District Community FOS. I was asked to talk for a few minutes about the value of Scouting in our community. The lunch was held in one of my favorite restaurants (Mark you might know it -Nino's?) The food was good. While there were a few new faces, I was happy to see a lot of the people who have been around for a while, some who I recruited back in the day. Our District Community FOS Chairman was stepping down and he was being replaced by one of my best friends who had served as our DE for about ten years. We have a new DE, who started his new job on January 1st, of this year. So far I'm really impressed with him. I was made feel very welcome. A lot of people said that they missed me and asked what I'd been doing. I had a chat with the photographer that the local paper sent to take the pictures. Turns out he had been a Sea Scout in Florida, I invited him to the next Ship's meeting to meet the adults. He has 3 girls who are Sea Scout age!! I had already decided how much I was going to donate to this years FOS. To keep everyone happy I decided to break it down so that the Community, Council and District all get a share. Of course it all ends up in the same pot, but by doing it this way it helps everyone meet their goals. I know the guy who owns the restaurant, I gave him a card and came away with a pledge from him. So I gave him five more cards to work. The DE thanked me for sending him the presentations that are being used for the Family FOS campaign. He asked where I got them? I told him from a friend I met on line -Thanks Bob White!! It was kinda nice to be back. I had a great day. Eamonn.

If the responses to the thread I started a few weeks back about Scouting and the Chartering Organization are anything to go by? It would seem that most CO's have little or no idea about what is going on in their units. I don't see the methods of Scouting as rules. I see them as goals. Something that we the adults and each individual Scout should be working toward. Every now and then for a while it might be that everything falls into line and a Scout and the unit might have all these ducks in a row. On the same hand that same unit might for a while have everything fall apart and need to start over. This is because different Scouts have different needs. Of course this is very different than the Scoutmaster who tells the Scouts and their parents that "We don't need to worry about ....(Fill in any of the methods) because we don't do it that way". This to my way of thinking is just wrong. While I don't know much about other organizations, I feel sure that there must be other youth organizations that have the same aims as the BSA, but don't employ the same methods. Not to put too fine a point on it. If anyone isn't happy doing things the way that they need to be and should be done? They really should go find an organization that is a better fit for them. What they are doing clearly isn't Scouting and who knows they might be happier serving the youth in some other organization. While I don't see it ever happening. I do at times wonder what would happen if when the DE has his or her annual meeting with the Head of the Chartering Organization, were to say? "I very sorry to have to inform you but your unit is not following the BSA program." Eamonn.

Dave Steele who was once active in this forum made the observation that if you send an idiot to training you end up with a trained idiot. Looking at it from the other way if h doesn't attend training you have an untrained idiot. Training does not in any way ensure that everyone who attends is going to come away a better leader or a better Scouter. Just as being a Boy Scout doesn't ensure that the Scout when he grows up is going to be a model citizen. Still if we all thought we were wasting our time, working with the youth we serve? I think we would find somewhere else to devote our time and energy. Many of us have met the nicest, kindest people who do try and deliver what they see as a Scouting program, but sadly they miss the mark by a long shot. Being nice and kind are great qualities, but don't always ensure that the Scouts receive a quality program. Training does a lot to help them do a better job and deliver a better Scouting program. Of course the training is all about delivery of the BSA Scouting program. If I decided I wanted to toss the BSA program out the window and go with a UK Scouting program, the training would be of little use. Kinda like sending a soccer coach to a camp that teaches cricket. One of the last things I said to the participants at Wood Badge before they departed for home was that Training never ends. We all keep on learning something everyday. Some leaders find something that is of interest to them and really get into it, they take courses and learn more, which they in turn pass on to the Scouts they serve. We all learn from each other. Formal training's do help us find each other and can show us what we are doing right as well as what areas need work. I remember coming home from PTC thinking to myself how glad I was that I didn't belong to a good many of the Councils and Districts that the other people there belonged too!! Eamonn.

As you might imagine, I at times am at odds with what I know is a healthy diet and what is a kid friendly diet. Please don't tell anyone, but a lot of times I tend to go for the kid friendly diet. My thinking being that having food that they will eat and cook beats them not eating anything but junk. Sometimes I feel that the adults force Scouts into planning menus that are not what any normal family eats at home. I have a good friend who sits on the Council Camping Committee, he made a big fuss that oatmeal wasn't being offered at Summer Camp. Oatmeal was added to the breakfast menu. Other than a few adults none of the Scouts ate it. How many kids today eat a home-cooked breakfast? I'm in no way saying that they shouldn't be taught the benefits and the importance of well balanced meals and food or that Pop-Tarts and instant add hot water type food is what they should be cooking and eating. Learning to cook even at home has its own challenges, learning to cook at camp has more! I do think of all the skills that we pass on to our Scouts cooking is the one that they will use most when they grow up. Expanding menus and cooking techniques is a good thing and can be lots of fun. The Ship has been playing with ovens made from cardboard boxes covered with heavy duty aluminum foil, using charcoal as the heating element. So far they have cooked a few roasts and pies, but have not been able to get it hot enough to cook a pizza from scratch.(It works with frozen pizza!!) Eamonn.

Some people might not need all the training that is available, while others will get a lot from the training's. I thought I was a good listener until I went to Wood Badge and we took the time to look at listening. For work I was trained in looking out for inmates who showed signs of being suicidal. Most of it seemed like common sense, but since the State has started training people what to look for the suicide rate has dropped by over 50%. The World Scout Organization is working with the World Health Organization on Teenage Suicide. The World Health Organization does have a paper for teachers that is used to train them in recognizing the signs of teenage suicide. I think trying to dismiss the training's that are out there as being unnecessary and un-needed is not a very good idea. Eamonn.

Maybe I'm missing something? As I see it before any Scout is asked to leave a unit or has his membership revoked we follow a process which involves a fair amount of people. Scoutmasters deliver the program and matters that could result in a Scout being asked to leave should be dealt with by the Troop Committee. The Troop Committee decide what the tolerance will be on a case by case basis. If an adult leader is ignoring or worse encouraging bullying they could take steps to remove him or her. Sometime back Barry posted that for the Scouts a Troop is the real world made smaller or down sized to boy size (Help me out here Barry - I think I have it right?) Our Scouts learn not only from what they do well or do right they also learn as much from what goes wrong and from what they do wrong. So when Mr. PL orders little Tim to get the water or he is going to beat him up! We the adults can explain to Mr. PL that this is not the best way to go about getting things done. If on the other hand he repeatedly beats up little Tim, we need to involve the Troop Committee and leave it in their capable hands. They have he G2SS to use as a reference. Eamonn

Not sure if this is going to come of saying what I want it too? I have known some adult leaders who from what I have observed (And I could be 100% wrong!!) seem to act like they are some high ranking military officer. They seem to see dealing with tasks as being more important than dealing with kids. Some units seem more like Boot Camps than Boy Scout units. I like to think that I do really care for each and every kid I serve. Each and every child that joins a Scout unit has different wants and needs. Some children have needs that do need to be handled by professionals who are trained to deal with these needs. Some of the Scouts we serve see Scouts and Scouting as just another activity that falls on a Monday night with the odd trip to camp. They are busy and involved in a lot of other activities and meet and deal with a lot of adults. Some they will like and form an attachment with and others they will tolerate in order to participate in the activity. This does not make them any less of a Scout than the Scout who sees Scouting as being the center of his or her world. While of course there are exceptions to every rule I would hope that Parents are the people that a Scout would turn to for emotional support. We as volunteer leaders might at times notice a change in a Scout and after talking with him or her, mention the change to the parent. The Scouts we serve, if they remain with us for a long time do go through a lot of changes. Moving from one school to another,puberty, questioning their values and the values that they might see as being forced upon them. Some will want to experiment with things that might not be good for them and try new things that could have not so great consequences. When OJ turned about 14 it seemed that his mother and him were arguing all the time and not getting along very well. By the time he was 16 or 17, it seemed to me that him and I were for some unknown reason becoming very distant. I was thankful that he had the support of his friends and a few caring adults who were willing to listen to him and make him aware what his options were and maybe at times give him a very friendly kick in the pants! Taking the time to listen to our Scouts is very important. Helping them ask and answer there own questions, without jumping in trying to fix everything or judge everything for them is important. Each and every kid needs a friend. I do try to take on the role of an older very experienced big brother. However I never forget that they are not my kids, they do have parents who are their primary care givers and I'm not trained in dealing with everything that might come along. They need to know that I do care and that I'm there for them. While of course the BSA has built opportunities into the program for us to meet and talk with Scouts, I find that having two or three Scouts stuck with me on a long drive is a great time to talk and find out more about what is really going on, that and a few of us working on boat repairs seems to be the best time for open two way communication. Eamonn.

Stosh, I'm not sure where kids learn to become bullies. Some might learn it from the example set by their parents, some might learn it from other kids or from having been bullied? RE: " don't always see giving directions even in an intimidating manner is bullying." Each case needs to be looked at looked at on its own. But the idea of a PL ordering the patrol members to do it or they run the risk of him beating them up? Does seem to me to be a clear case of bullying. We the adults do need to step in and see what can be done to change his "Style of leadership". It clearly is not the style that we want or require in Scouting. I see it much the same as the Leader who tells a Scout who has done something that doesn't seem right to sing a silly song or do push ups. Eamonn.