Eaglemom2b

Thank you for that link. I watched a few of the videos describing the cooking requirements. They are informative and interesting. I particularly enjoyed the Leave No Trace idea.

Great insight, Bart. I recently volunteered to be a den leader next year and my one and only stipulation - no cub day camp. I can't handle the chaos. Weekly den meetings - no problem. Monthly pack meetings - can handle those. Day camp - my prescription for Adavan will need to be renewed.

I would say no. The req. says 'study a tribe that lived/lives near you'. If you are in AZ then you may not use the Cherokee because they were/are not in your area. If you use the Cherokee you are changing the req. The req. doesn't say 'study any native american tribe or trace your native american ancersty'. If your son wants to do that he can work on the Geneology merit badge; that would be cool. There are many other tribes you may use: Navajo, Apache, Hopi, to name a few. 1. Give the history of one American Indian tribe, group or nation that lives or has lived near you. Visit it, if possible. Tell about traditional dwellings, way of life, tribal government, religious beliefs, family and clan relationships, language, clothing styles, arts and crafts, food preparation, means of getting around, games, customs in warfare, where members of the group now live, and how they live.

Let me get something straight? You have a boy plan a menu, prep the meals and cook the meals on his own? For advancement? I love that idea. In our old troop the meals were planned and voted on by the entire troop (and often times vetoed and/or influenced by the adult leaders); lots of lazy man oatmeal and boxed donuts for breakfast. The Quartermaster then purchased all of the ingredients and was in charge of making sure all of the necessary cooking equipment, etc was loaded for the campout. Different boys were supposed to be selected to prepare the meals and clean up but the QM was responsible for how well the meals turned out (burnt or edible), portion size, condiment availability, etc. The QM was supposed to be responsible for making sure things were cleaned and ready to use at the next meal. The QM had this responsibility for 6 months; of course the spring/summer QM had a much tougher job then the fall/winter QM, the troop doesn't camp out for three months during that period. Never, ever in the five years we were with that troop did an individual scout plan, shop for and prepare a meal for his patrol for advancement. The only boy to earn the Cooking MB did so through summer camp and I have always wondered how well that program fit the reqs. BTW - no one in the troop ever really volunteered to be QM because it required the most amount of work and, if the boys and adults were unhappy with the food,received the most criticism.

Quote "Our standard for Badge earning is not the attainment of a certain level of quality of knowledge or skill, but the AMOUNT OF EFFORT THE BOY HAS PUT INTO ACQUIRE SUCH KNOWLEDGE OR SKILL This brings the most hopeless case on to a footing of equal possibility with his more brilliant or better-off brother. " This has been an interesting conversation to read. I am amazed by the passion expressed in the various posts. Here's my .02. Even without an expressed proficiency level the part of the quote in all caps is problematic. Boys know how to work the system, especially in this day of IEPs, 504 plans and no child left behind. The 'brilliant or better off brother' is watching the other boys get off a little bit easier and what are they doing? Complaining to their parents, the MBCs and other scouters about the unfairness of it all. This is why so much has been dumbed down (and not just in scouting); why should one boy be required to demonstrate a skill level so much higher than another boy's because of a perceived difference in ability? I am not talking about boys with true deficincies, they should be granted special allowances, and I believe there are rules that already address boys with special needs. Let's take the Cooking MB since it was referred to earlier. Scout #1 is an able bodied boy, and would qualify as a better off brother under BPs definition. He is to cook a meal for his patrol. He tosses some noodles in a pot throws in some spaghetti sauce and calls it good; little planning little effort. He meets the qualifications set forth in the reqs. But what is his effort level? It doesn't require much skill from a brilliant, better off brother to make spaghetti. Scout #2, also a brilliant, better off brother, chooses to make a three course meal in dutch ovens. His recipes take some time and effort. He produces a nice stew, some corn bread and a dessert. He also meets the qualifications set forth in the reqs. His effort is much greater than that of Scout #1 but both are viewed on equal terms as set forth by the BSA. Scout #3, is the less fortunate boy. He has no cooking ability and is a little awkward; in current society he qualifies for special ed and shows some impairment. There is no way he could cook at the level of Scout #2; even the spaghetti dinner from Scout #1 would be initially challenging for this scout. He attempts the spaghetti dinner anyway and presents it (albeit a little overcooked) to his patrol as if he made dinner for the president. Where is his effort level? Certainly well above that of scout #1. He also satisfies the reqs. What about Scout #4? He is also one of the better off brothers. He has attended the campouts where the three previous scouts have shown their cooking ability and he knows what has passed the reqs. What will he choose to do? Most scouts, in my experience, will follow in the footsteps of scout #1 and make the simplest, least effortful meal he can manage that will fit the requirement. In all honesty, the other boys in the Troop will probably encourage him to keep it simple, do the least amount of work necessary. The spirit of 'ability and effort' has gone by the wayside in favor of equality, special accomodations and ease. It is easier to allow boys to meet the minimum reqs. instead of challenging them to rise to the occassion, learn something more difficult, put in some effort and earn the privilege of saying "I did this".

Well...it was memorable and no one will forget it. -- I took the OP to be less of an objection to the breastfeeding incident and more like a a "now-I've-seen-everything" attitude. It reminded me of my college interview. Since I was more than 150 miles away from the main campus the school asked a local alumnus to do the interview. We met at a local restuarant and during the interview the interviewer got up to use the restroom. As she was walking out her skirt fell off. She just walked right out of it, picked it up, and continued to the restroom. It was all I could do to finish the interview when she returned to the table. I mean once you've seen someone in their underwear....

Yes. The weekly meetings go on as planned as well as the monthly events (for the old troop and the new troop). Summer is the best time for scouting. No pressures of homework or other school obligations. Boys can relax and have fun. I never knew reducing the schedule or doing an abbreviated summer program was an option. The ideas seems silly to me.

It was posted by The Summit along with this link http://www.scouting.org/filestore/marketing/pdf/eaglescoutsinformationgraphic.pdf

There were only 3 ECOHs in the 5 years my son was in his previous troop. I think the parent's paid for everything for all three. There were no shared decorations, themes or traditions. From what the families told me they paid for all of the food and the pin set. If the troop paid for anything it was kept quiet. For my son's new troop, I don't rightly know. Since my son should be earning his Eagle within the year it is probably something I should know.

Basement - You bring up something else I have been wondering. Should boys passively earn awards or do they need to actively persue the achievements? (after typing a long post I have decided that it should probably be a new thread.)

Thank you for the replies. I have found them quite helpful as I continue to ponder this question. I am currently reading the book Quiet by Susan Cain so the introvert-extrovert dichotomy is fresh in my mind. I realize that each troop and program is going to be different but in my experience it is the extroverts who do well and advance quicker. The Es seem to be elected to OA at a younger age, spend less time in BORs, and be elected to the 'desired' positions of leadership (SPL, ASPL, Scribe, PL) more times than not. The Board has shorter post-BOR discussions regarding the Es and fewer comments about how these scouts can grow in the program. Note: This is all anecdotal and in no way scientifically proven. Is on the other hand spend 2-3x the time in BORs, the Boards usually have numerous comments about expected changes, and they, the Is, usually have to repeat BORs in order to advance. In my experience there are fewer Is elected to OA and rarely elected to hold SPL or ASPL. They usually receive jobs like Librarian or Historian (jobs which, in our old troop, have zero responsibility and are filled only for POR/advancement purposes)or Quartermaster which is the job requiring the most work (the troop has an interesting way of defining the QM responsibilities). I did make it sound like Is are better leaders but that is not what I meant at all. I realize that both personality types have strengths and weaknesses and each can be effective in a variety of situations and circumstances. -- And remember from my intitial post: I do not necessarily equate introversion with being shy. I am an introvert and not shy at all. Although most shy individuals are introverts, not all introverts are shy. I also don't believe a true introvert can alter his personality so much that he becomes an E. He may learn coping mechanisms and behaviors that allow him to meet the demands required in the current situation but reverts to his innate behaviors as soon as he can.

Message sent. Will let you know if/when I hear anything.

I don't mean to be a pain but I am a tad concerned and confused. My son is dual registered as a Boy Scout and Venture crew member. THe Venture Crew is geared toward high adventure and the opportunities are wonderful. If he wants to earn the NOA Camping segment will the time spent camping with his crew count toward the reqs? Venturing is a BSA organization and his SM has told my son that those trips will count. What about the Adventure segment? My son went to Sea Base last summer for the Live Aboard program with the crew. They also go rock climbing on a regular basis. AS a matter of fact they are practicing tonight in preparation for a climbing venture next weekend. These are honest questions. I am not trying to be snarky or rude.

Re: neckerchiefs The neckerchief isn't a part of our troop's uniform so I didn't think about it from the perspective of uniformity with the troop. I know there are adults who are working through or who have earned woodbadge that wear special neckerchiefs. That's more along the lines of what I was thinking.

I can assure you that if anything was done contrary to the spirit of the award it was not intentional. All of the rides were completed following the standards set forth in the Cycling merit badge book (registered bike, helmet, buddy sytem followed) and were okayed by the SM and a registered MBC (non-parent). All rides have taken place within the last two years while DS has been a registered Boy Scout. It began as a troop badge but as soon as the other boys hit the longer rides (15+) they began to drop out. Partly due to the types of bikes the boys were riding; the little dirt bikes and trick bikes are not meant for distance riding. (Aside, no one in the Troop had ever attempted Cycling before because of the amount of work involved; earning Swimming at summer camp has been tradition for many years.) Many of the miles were earned while working for the Cycling merit badge. It took my son 4 tries to complete the 50 mile ride. The first three attempts ranged from 32-45 miles each and added up to over 100 miles which did not count toward the cycling merit badge. When the idea of applying for the NOA Riding segment was broughtup the SM, MBC, DS and I had a lengthy discussion aboutthe reqs. When we had questions regarding the requirements and approached the DE and the Council, no one could answer the questions; mainly because no one in our district has earned the award. However, DS was encouraged to continue riding. When he completed the basic reqs for the NOA Riding and submitted his application for the main patch and the Riding segment the SM took it to the Council office and specifically inquired as to whether or not DS met the requirements. It was the Council who identified DS as not only having completed the segment but also determined the number of devices earned. The application was approved and DS was encouraged to continue riding. Until this point no one has questioned the validity of the rides. Each ride has been logged onto Dailymile.com and submittd to the MBC. DS also has a computer attached to his bike that tracks his mileage so there is tertiary verification the miles were completed. Just so you know - our family rides (when we all go out and ride around town for fun) aren't counted in the miles. My son's rides were specific toward earning the award. -- At present my son has volunteered to help mentor any other boys who desire to earn the Cycling MB. We are trying to set up a summer riding program for the district. We have three MBCs ready to go but little interest from local boys. We were late in advertising, though, and summer baseball and swimming seasons have started; not to mention rising humidity and temps. -- I don't know what else to say. If we did do something wrong it was not for lack of trying to follow the rules.

Thanks for replying. NEPA - I like the neckerchief idea, really like it. I think I'll check with the SM and see if that would be okay to do for my son (if my son would agree to it, that is).

Do any of you know of a scout who has earned the National medal for Outdoor acheivement? I just looked through the reqs and my son is about half way there. He earned the Leave No Trace Trainer in April. That was a long weekend of training but he completed it.

I did a forum search regarding the NOA and noted that some of you said your sons were interested in earning this award (or portions thereof). How is it going? Are scouts earning the award? My son earned the center segment and the Riding rocker with three gold devices. With the bike rides he put in this week he is well on his way to the silver device. He is currently working on Cooking MB and wants to earn the Camping rocker as soon as he can. His third choice will be the Adventure rocker, which appears to me to be the most difficult to earn. Please update. I am curious to learn of the popularity of this award.

I was just logging in to share the link. The requirements seem just a hop, skip and jump more than the Kayaking BSA award. Not at all what I expected.

I have been thinking about this for awhile now and wonder if, like so much of modern society, scouting has based its program on the Extravert Ideal. With the emphasis pointing toward overt leadership, are introverts at an inherent disadvantage? I am not speaking about the 'shy' scout who might benefit from a little encouragement to develop his leadership/public speaking ability but rather the boys with demonstrated introvert qualities, like the desire to work in small vs. large groups, leading by quiet example and not through boisterous behavior, one whose ideas reflect quality but not necassarily quantity? The boys who are willing to demonstrate their skills and share their knowledge but allow other scouts to particpate in decision making and learn through experience?

In my experience... 1)relying on his experience and training as a scout and refusing to go through adult leader training 2)focusing more on the fundraiser and not so much on scouting 3)playing favorites with the scouts 4)recruiting more adults for the troop than boys 5)telling the boys the troop is boy led and then overriding and vetoing everything the boys want to do so that the current program looks exactly the way it did fifteen years ago when the SM was a scout 6)vocalizing the weaknesses of the current group of boys and comparing them to the boys of 10-15 years ago 7)vocalizing (in front of parents and boys) discontent with the District and Council leadership

I have been lurking on the site for a few months now and have appreciated and benefitted from the wisdom and knowledge of many scouters. Thank you to the powers that be for hosting this invaluable site. I am a mom of a Life Scout beginning his Eagle Project process. I am a District Committee member and working on becoming active in my son's new troop (he recently transferred troops) and his crew (joined over a year ago). I am also thinking about volunteering with a local pack because I love the CS program and miss it.

I am a mom of a current scout and a registered MB counselor. I am here to gather information to help my son's Troop move forward and to help my son become a better scout.