Eagle732

Well the DAC went to a Council Advancement meeting two days prior to the training he had for unit leaders. He was told by Council fundraising moneys may not be used for food. Since raisin doesn't list where he's from I have no idea if we're from the same District or Council. I don't know if it's right or wrong but I'm thinking if they say don't and a boy does buy food it will at the minimum create problems and delays in the project.

Last night I attended a "Life to Eagle" seminar based on the latest Eagle work book which was given by our District Advancement Chair. He said that the Eagle candidate may NOT use money obtained by fundraising to buy food for crews.(This message has been edited by Eagle732)

Well I guess when your Roundtable Commissioner gathers a room full of Webelos Den Leaders and tells them JTE is how they should evaluate troops and what parents should use to choose a troop it's no wonder I have a different perspective on it. Time will tell how it's used and if it is helpful to weaker units or is used against them.

"Am I the only one that sees irony here? BSA prohibits Boy Scouts from using power tools and yet we will now have a welding MB." Anxiously awaiting "Nail Gun' merit badge.

Topshot, just read your dissertation. It is very well done. You might get some arguments from some on certain topics but I think you are on solid ground. As an example you still have many who swear by boots and not trail runners but they're living in the past. I thru-hiked the AT in 2011, 5 1/2 months, and wore out 4 pairs of running shoes and never got a blister. Hope you don't mind but I saved your work, It will be useful to my scouts. It will be suggested reading for my Backpacking MB scouts.(This message has been edited by Eagle732)

So with all this talk about how DE's and their bonuses, and how JTE helps National I have one question. How does JTE help my boys? Does it help them by diverting the finite resources of the adult volunteers? Does developing a troop budget when none was ever needed before help them? Does encouraging a fitness program to a bunch of kids so active in sports that we had to move our meeting nights to Sunday to avoid conflicts with games and practice help them? Even increasing membership and advancement might not be a good thing if it compromises the quality of the unit's program. I could go on but you get the idea. On the other hand if JTE encourages a unit to camp 10 weekend a year instead of 6 than that's good thing. If it encourages most adult direct contact leaders to be trained, great. But the DE's can encourage those important things through the UC's. If Council and National need statistics they should collect them from the information they have. They can certainly find the information on advancement and membership. If they need to know how many nights we camp or how many service projects we do send me a survey and if it's not too long, confusing or convoluted, with an entire page of explanations on how to fill it out then I'll probably return it. I believe most units will follow along with JTE and that's fine. I look at it like selling popcorn. My committee says they don't want to sell popcorn and I explain that if we even make the slightest effort we appear to be a team player and not one of "those units". So we hand out the order forms and order whatever the boys want to sell and the profits go in their scout accounts. Same with JTE, no effort, it's just done to get along with the powers to be. And the reason why there's no effort is because there's no perceived benefit to our boys. Also I don't like the grading of units. I see it as something that could be abused. I hadn't considered this until I attended a RT where the Commissioner brought the WDLs into the Boy Scout RT to discuss Web transition. The Commish held up the JTE form and said "this is what you need to be looking at when you're looking for a troop!". When I told our committee how district was promoting JTE as THE way to measure the quality of a unit they understood how important it was.I wouldn't be surprised to see all unit JTE ratings on the district website in the future. Why bother visiting several troops when Webs and parents can just join the nearest Gold unit? and johnponz, you did say "agree with", twice. You also said participate, once. (This message has been edited by Eagle732)

"When you agreed to volunteer in BSA, you also agreed to participate in BSA programs (maybe not explicitly but by association). If you do not like these programs, I would suggest you form your own youth organization that does not include them." Really? Either agree with everything or go home?

I can only imagine how tough it is to be a DE and have a substantial part of your salary dependent upon volunteers who may not have the same goal as many of the volunteers. (This message has been edited by Eagle732)

"In addition, while I am pretty certain anyone can teach it, at the end of the whole thing it has to be sign off by a member of the religious order (i.e., priest, pastor, rabbi, etc) " Actually the information from BSA says specifically that it should not be taught by leaders. From the Religious Emblems section on the BSA website: "Religious instruction should always come from the religious organization, not from the unit leader"

The youth ministry advisor for our church worked with my son on his religious award when he was a Web not his WDL. I would think the DL's job would be to make scouts aware of the program and direct them to their church or an advisor of the same faith if their church doesn't offer the program. From the FAQ section of Religious Emblems Program on the BSA website: "The religious emblems programs should be presented to youth members and their families as an optional program for them to complete through their religious organization. Religious instruction should always come from the religious organization, not from the unit leader. Parents need to be informed of these programs and told where to get the information for their particular faith."

Well the podcast they did on it last year said if too many units earn gold they would make the requirements harder. So I assume that if a requirement was too hard they would reduce them. I see for 2012 they've reduced the number of short term nights camping. Must be too hard to go camping once a month. (This message has been edited by Eagle732)

Ours are filled in and submitted at recharter. The DE sat with our CC for 1 1/2 hours going over and filling out the form. He was a happy camper. Fitness starts next year, guess we'll be doing PT every meeting Another idea for more points. For fitness make up a form similar to the Tenderfoot requirement #10. Have Scouts take it home and keep track of their progress throughout the year. Turn it in at the end of the year. Anyone who turns it in gets invited to a "Let's get fit" pizza night! And as a bonus extra cheesy bread and soda! And we wonder why they leave. And I wonder why everyone takes this stuff so seriously.

Great post Twocubdad, our units did almost exactly the same. Only exception is that we send a Scout to NYLT but ours is over two weekends in the spring so it's not competing with summer camp. I picked up some great ideas on how to score even higher next year and since a Scout is Helpful I'll share them with you. 1. Do an advancement projection one month prior and if needed push through borderline slackers. 2. Raise dues, then only the serious kids will join and we'll be comparable to rec. sport in cost and perceived value. 3. Hold new apps two months, this avoids the new kid loss on the books. This rarely happens but every scout counts (towards the numbers). When parent start asking where their son's membership card is we'll just say council lost the paper work. 4. Hold all adult apps until after their training is complete. They can still do their job and go on camping trips but just won't be registered. 5. For the budget just tell them we have one, that's easy. 6. Court of Honor 4 times a year, just pencil 'em in, no one's counting. With all these improvements along the insignificant things we already do like going camping and working the Patrol Method (I'm a big GGB fan!) we should easily break 2,000 next year!

BDPT00, I don't buy into JTE. I don't care about the whining. Everyone has their own opinion. Our unit did it because we figured from past experience, the DE would do it for us if we didn't. Better that we put in what we want than someone who knows zero about our unit. We were Gold. We will not buy JTE patches. If a unit wants to do it and they see value in it then that's fine. If they don't then I don't think it should be mandatory. The fact that DEs are saying it's mandatory (which it isn't) tells me there is more than a few units not participating. Just my opinion.

johnponz, it's great that you visit your units monthly, from my experience you are the exception. I went years without seeing a UC. Still I don't buy into the JTE thing. I'm not one of those guys that's against everything National, Council or District does. In fact in addition to being a SM I also volunteer at the District and Council levels.

When we submitted JTE it was just SWAG. Let the professionals do the figuring, that's their job. Our job is to take boys camping and and promote the Scout Oath and Law. That leaves little time for such foolishness.

It was announced with great glee tonight by our DE that District qualified for BRONZE! Nothing like striving for mediocracy. JMO JTE is a PIA. YMMV

I feel for you hopalong. The guys that complain no one does a good enough job are also the ones who complain that they don't get any help either. Go figure.

In our troop adults and Scouts all pitch in to help break camp with the SPL in lead working through his PLs. SPL's job is to make sure everyone is pitching in until the job is done. However when I see Scouts sitting on their butts and not helping the rule is all adult helps stops and the Scouts do the rest by themselves. It only took a few times for the Scouts to figure it out.

"tried to arrange one kinda like Beav indicates (only Life Scout and above), but the Committee went bonkers and emailed the District Camping Chair and I was told in no uncertain terms that we could not do so." 300 feet is now 300 inches. My yardstick remains unchanged and applied whenever possible

JTE is a PIA

Seems if the SM is saying "if you don't like it find a new SM" then maybe that's what the CC/COR should do. The sooner the better. Keeping someone in a position they don't want to be in only leads to no good.

I'm sure the scenario I quoted in my earlier post is quite common (and I thought, somewhat humorous). Scouts have everything they need until they show up without it:) I consider these teaching opportunities.

"There is no sharing between patrols so there is no question who is responsible for what." We allow sharing, after all a Scout is helpful. The owning patrol still had the responsibility to get the item back. Exchange between the SM and a PL during a recent camping trip. PL- We don't have a stove SM - Why not? PL - I don't know, somebody took it out of our chuck box. SM - What would you like me to do? PL - I don't know, can we use the adult's stove? SM - Sorry, it's being used right now. Find a way to work around it so you patrol can eat. PL (looking dejected that I didn't solve his problem) OK. A few minutes later I see our extra single large pot burner that we use for heating dish water getting carried over to the patrol site. The put their griddle on it and started cooking pancakes. I walked over to the PL and said "I knew you could figure it out on you own, good job" Next camping trips: Same PL - We don't have the hose for our stove. SM - WHAT!!! And on it goes

We have an adult QM advisor, he is a committee member. He does the things the scouts can't do. Tow the trailer, order equipment, major repairs etc. The SPL chooses the QM, and something new for us, each patrol will have a QM which will also act as assistants to the troop QM as needed. Each patrol is assigned their own equipment such as tents, chuck box, etc. Everything is marked so we know who belongs to what. No one other than that patrol uses its equipment and they are responsible for it. If the SM can't talk with his ASMs you've got bigger problems then needing a Klondike sled.