Can OA lodge/Chapter officers wear silver loops without their troop numerals. What About Regional insignia
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1) WELCOME TO THE FORUMS!
2) For Lodge and Chapter Chief's, yes they can wear Silver loops, but no on the regional patch. According to the Guide to Officers and Advisers
The lodge adviser and lodge chief are members of the council camping or Boy Scout committee, and chapter advisers and their chiefs become members of their respective district committees.
So if your Lodge Chief can find one of the old Lodge Chief POR Patches that came out in 1993 or 1994, he can wear that without the unit numbers and silver loops. I also know of LCs wearing repros of them too (the patch came out of Supply without approval, so they had to destroy whatever inventory they had left. Lost of folks were buying them up when the word came out). If you can't find an old LC patch, the a Council Committee patch is available. Be advised they are restricted, and I will tell you that staff will look at you funny and question a youth getting that patch. But yes it is authorized
National never made a Chapter Chief Patch (although a Chapter Adviser one exists ?!?!?!?!) so he would need to wear a District Committee Patch. Ditto the strange looks and questioning. Also be ready for some adults to look at him funny and question not only why he's there, but why he has a vote on the committee.
Regional patches are restricted to employees, regional level Scouts, Venturers, and Scouters. Sea Scouts don't wear regional insignia. Only time you see Scouters wearing regional patches not in a regional POR is at Jambo.
I know that the patch for my region is available at the NLS trading post and know many who got one and wear one. should I ask the advisor about the patch or the silver loops?
I know many folks wear regional insignia who are not suppose to. Heck I admit two of my shirts have it on b/c when I took them off, you could tell a region patch was there I wore them so much when I was a DE.
per the IG
This insignia [regional insignia] is reserved for regional officers, regional committee members, local council professional Scouters, and national staff with a regional responsibility and is worn on the right sleeve in position 2. Adult regional world and national jamboree contingent staff and leaders may wear the insignia only during their assignment at the jamboree. The same rule applies to specifically designed regional insignia for a national event.
Do talk to your adviser. Depending upon Whether you're a LC or a CC, plus how involved you are on the committee, he may recommend not wearing it. Me personally if you are going to be active, then I recommend it, as wearing your regular shirt A) may be seen as a sign of favoritism, and B)let others know you important role on the commitee, representing the youth of the district or council. Let's face it, there are only two youth voices, possibly three, Council Boatswain, among the adults running a youth program. Your voice and your role is VERY IMPORTANT as us old fogeys can sometimes forget why we are here.
Two asides. #1 I only know of 1 CC who went to a district meeting, and after all the politics and infighting said never again.
#2 I find it interesting that there are official District Venturing President and Council Venturing President patches, but no OA Lodge Chief and Chapter Chief patches.
http://www.sageventure.com/venturing/files/CouncilVenturingPres.pdf(This message has been edited by Eagle92)(This message has been edited by Eagle92)
Are you really sure of your posts, nowhere in the pub's does it state OA youth officers can wear silver loops or regional patches. As far as the council camping committee is concerned OA youth officers have only an honorary place with no voting privileges. Now the adult lodge advisor is alowed to wear the silver loops as it is a council position with an official patch, youth officers do not have the same recognition.
The Officers Guide states that both the Lodge Adviser and Lodge chief are part of the committee, not honorary members, and the Chapter adviser and Chapter cheif are part of the district committee,not honorary members. being part of a committee entails full voting rights, and access to the appropriate insignia if they chose to wear it.
I know in the two of the 4 lodges I wasactive in, the LC was a member of council committee, and did vote. Now the uniform and/or insignia they wear varies from LC to LC. One lodge I know of had the LC wearing the old LC Patch until they ran out of them, then I think they started using repros. In the other, the LC sometimes wears what they want to wear. Sometimes it's a unit uniform, sometimes it's a uniform with the exec committee patch, and sometimes its the "summer camp uniform" consisting of Venturing field uniform, Council camp staff CSP, Camp Staff or Camp Area Director POR, and.... silver loops.
- Sep 2008
Can't comment on the loops, but in the IG quote above, it clearly lists only the professionals on the local level that may wear the regional insignia, with the exception of those temporarily serving the region at a national event.
here is the thing
The National Chief, Nat Vice-Chief and Regional Chiefs ALL wear gold loops and appropriate national/regional office insignia.
On the Venturing side, there are office patches for National, Regional, Area, Council and District Venturing Presidents, and them wearing gold or silver loops (as appropriate) and regional insignia (again, as appropriate) is not just allowed but encouraged.
For whatever reason, nothing is done for the Section, Lodge, and Chapter officers.
As noted, the Lodge Chief and Chapter Chiefs are supposed to be members of certain committees by virtual of their position. In some councils, the LC is on the exec board as a youth representative. So why shouldn't they wear the appropriate office patches/loops to indicate that? Now, that would have to be done with the approval of the adult leadership, not the youth decided to do that on their own.
(oh, and the Council & District Committee patches aren't restricted. around here they are available to anyone to buy at the Scout Shops, not behind the counter.)
- Feb 2008
"Council camp staff CSP, Camp Staff or Camp Area Director POR"
I don't mean to take this thread off-topic, but what are those? Does your council have a specific camp staff CSP and POR patch?
Interesting post but in all my years in scouting I have never heard in any of the councils I was/am part of the Lodge Chief being on the council exec committee or camping comittee(except in an honorary capacity)and in either case never having any voting rights. OA National and Regional youth officers may be a different story but on a local level it has always been viewed as a temporary one year position with no special privileges,special badges of office, or voting membership on any council committee. Their main function is planning out the lodge activities for that year.
According to Scoutstuff.org the district and council committee patches are restricted. that's where I got that info form.
As for why they don't have LC and CC patches, I was told by my boss in supply that the youth's primary role is with his unit, and that there is no need for those patches. When supply put them out, one of the committees had a hissy fit and told us to destroy the ones in inventory. My boss personally handled that, but we only had one or two left in inventory. Those patches came out 1995 or 1996, as that was my first gig with supply as a PT. I know my friend the LC bought 3 of those patches.
Yes, we have Summer camp CSP. It is the regualar CSP with "Camp Boddie Staff" written in gold letters on it. If memory serves they only give you one per summer camp, and I don't think you can buy them either. Trust me they didn't have them when I was on camp staff back in the day, AND I WANT ONE WITH THE OLD CAMP NAME! Don't see many folks wear them, but a few do, usually the rangers.
Also there is a POR patch. I think I've seen 2 designs (Stag's head on one, the other is the FDL), and two different wordings depending upon position. Again this is if my memory serves as most folks don't wear them and you only get 1 per summer camp.
As for why the silver loops, b/c they are employees, even if seasonal. Beats what they use to do when I worked staff, pick a ribbon and make their own. Each year had their own colors. Don't ask.
In the lodge I grew up in, LC voted. Current lodge ditto. Only thing 'special" is that my current lodge pays for the meal as our meetings are usually working dinners.
As for the DC, lots of times the CCs I've worked with usually have jobs and cannot make the meeting, or that's their game nite. I know of only 1 CC who attended a meeting, and after the bickering and politics, he and his dad both, dad at time was ACA, now CA, swore never again. Luckily committee has stopped the worst of it.
I have seen a few Camp Staff POR patches, usually specific for that camp.
"Interesting post but in all my years in scouting I have never heard in any of the councils I was/am part of the Lodge Chief being on the council exec committee or camping comittee(except in an honorary capacity)and in either case never having any voting rights."
I have been hearing of this a lot more in the last 10 or so years, including see LC wearing Council Exec Board patches. Whether or not they are voting members I can't say (probably not), but the LCs I know of sit on the exec board as a youth representative. If there is a Council Venturing President, they, too, sit on the board as a youth representative for Venturing. Typically they are there to provide a report of what is going on (lodge, venturing), not have a say in decisions.
- Aug 2005
Why would the Chapter/Lodge officers need to wear any color loops other than the ones they wear on the uniforms their unit wears? Our chapter/lodge officers never wore silver. They aren't members of the District Committee/Council Committees. The Chapter/Lodge Advisors were the OA reps at the committee level. Chapter/Lodge officers were invited to serve as advisory or honorary members, but were not actual members of the committee.
If you were over 18, you either were an Explorer (now Venturer) or an ASM - and you wore the appropriate loop, if your uniform had a loop (Explorers could choose their own uniform - my unit didn't have a uniform with a loop).
The position patch you wore was the same position patch you wore on your regular uniform. If you were an SPL, you had an SPL patch on. ASM? You had an ASM patch on. No position (meaning you were probably an Explorer or an under 18-year old Eagle not working on Palms that didn't need a position)? Then you simply had no position patch.
My recollection as to why there is no Chapter/Lodge officer patches is because of what some might consider a quirk of the program, though I consider it the true strength of the program - true egalitarianism. In the OA, there are no ranks. Once you have completed the Ordeal, you are equal in brotherhood to everyone else in the OA. Brotherhood is not a rank, it's a re-affirmation of your dedication to the principles of the OA. Vigil is not a rank, it is a recognition by your peers that you uphold the traditions and purpose of the OA at the highest level - you aren't superior - you're the example.
When you're a Chapter/Lodge officer, you aren't putting yourself above any other in the OA. You are a true servant leader - you are serving because you enjoy serving - and you are serving the others. The best Lodge Chiefs are those that refuse to leave their place in the meal line to take a position at the front of the line just because they are the Lodge Chief.
Being a Chapter/Lodge officer is about offering service to your fellow OA members - if you need a patch to announce it to the world, then, in my opinion, you aren't deserving of the position.