We have been recently told by our COR that adults should not wear patrol patches. Has anyone else ever heard this?? We were floored of course, because we see adults with patrol patches all the time.
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- Oct 2007
Does an adult belong to a patrol? Nope, they might be advisors but they aren't members of that patrol just like Troop Guides aren't members of the patrol that they advise. Wearing a patrol patch often gives the adult the idea that they are "in charge" of the patrol and consequently they treat is like a den of 3rd year Webelos.
If you look at the Insignia Guide and the inspection sheets, you'll see that there is no place for a patrol medallion on an adult Boy Scout Leader uniform.
If we look at the inspection forms, we'll notice that women in Cub Scouting may wear the Den Number or medallion on their right sleeve but that is missing from the mens' inspection form.
Of course, many adults in Boys Scouts do wear a patch for the "Rocking Chair Patrol" or the "Old Goat Patrol" but that is completely unofficial.
In the end, do what the COR tells you to do. He's the proxy for the owner of your unit.
- Jan 2006
Two possibilities, no, three THREE posibilities...
One, the adult wants to be a member of the Scout's Patrol (Eagle, Beaver, Cougar, etc.). Either for nostalgia of his/her days gone by or to show support as a Patrol dad/mom. Not appropriate. The adult ain't a Scout.
Two, the adult wants to be a (sort of) member of the "Adult Patrol" (Old Goat, Rocking Chair, Coffee Can, etc). Solidarity? Nostalgia? Empty spot on the uniform that needs filling?
Three, the adult just plain wants to be a Scout, either again, or for the first time (missed out when he/she was young, made a mistake WH/SWY), wants to be included.
I've seen the RCh patch awarded as a recognition of the adults efforts on behalf of the Troop. Sort of a jr. grade WB.
Is this different than being a recognized ASM?
FOUR FOUR reasons...
If the COR says don't wear the patch, then make sure he/she understands why the Troop dads/moms wear the patch. If the reason doesn't stand the light of day, then take the patch off and start the conversation over and convince the COR. Maybe the reason(s) aren't worth the effort, maybe the reasons need to be rethought and re-understood. Thank the COR for their concern for your unit.
""Nobody expects the Rocking Chair Patrol...""
- Jul 2002
I haven't taken Wood Badge...
but the one thing that pops into my head when talking about adults wearing patrol patches would be that they took Wood Badge. That they are wearing the patrol patch for the patrol they were in during Wood Badge.
I don't know what the adults are told when taking Wood Badge regarding the wearing of these patches
but that's just what I'm thinking
Well, I am taking Woodbadge right now. And we wear patches because we are working as a Scout in a Troop. This doesn't have to do with Woodbadge patrol patches. This has to do with the adult leaders "patrol" wanting to wear a patch such as the "old goats" or "rocking chair" on their uniform where the patrol patch would go.
Thanks for all the replies so far.
- Oct 2002
Hi and Welcome.
In the past forum members have discussed "Adult Patrols".
Some people are all for them and say that they work well, while others like me are not so keen on the idea.
The Adult Patrol Patch?
To my way of thinking becomes a Uniform discussion.
The "By the book" answer is that adults don't wear patrol Patches.
In times past Wood Badge participants were given a patrol patch to wear on their uniform shirt while attending the course.
While these patches are no longer given and wearing the patch is no longer part of the course, some courses still continue to hand them out.
While I would never wear a Adult Patrol Patch, I can't help thinking that at the end of the day there are far more important things to worry about and be concerned about than a little patch on a adult leaders shirt.
It most defiantly in my book is not a hanging offense.
Some people might say that by not doing things by the book the adults are setting a poor example for the Scouts they serve?
This might be true?
If a Troop feels that having an adult Patrol in some way helps improve the program that the Scouts they serve and wearing a little patch helps the leaders work better?
I'm happy to just ignore it.
But if the "Boss" (COR) Has strong feelings that they should not be worn? He is the "Boss" and I'd be just as happy no to wear one.
When your not sure what to do ? Following the rules is the best thing to do.
- Jan 2004
There is no endorsement in the insignia guide for an adult patrol patch. I personally see the value in culling the adults into a patrol to keep them away from over helping their kids. So although we do not wear "Old Goat" on our arms I refer to the adults attending the campouts as the Adult Patrol. A patch could go along way towards keeping a mind set to stay away from the kiddies.
I think too often we scouters over interpret the Scoutmaster's HANDBOOK and Insignia GUIDE as rules and regulations. There was more emphasis in the early books to use waht works rather than use it precisely this way. If a strong unit has built up a organization using adult patrol patches why mess with it? I believe programs should be built around and for the people not the opposite. Besides at round table half the old timers there have patrol patches either from woodbadge or some silly one.
Getting your COR to change his mind will be difficult. You may be able to if you are able to persuade him that there is value in building team spirit and a sense of belonging at the adult level.
gigibw, welcome to the Campfire
Your COR has expressed a desire. The Chartered Partner is the owner of record of a Scouting unit, and within the limits of the Charter Agreement, can prescribe policy for how units shall operate. If he/she says "no Patrol patches", it's a Nike "just do it" moment.
I used to be an Owl... ... and I wear the Owl patrol patch superglued to my WB leather nametag, underneath.
I believe there is a "Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America" prohibition against adults wearing articles specifically intended for the youth (merit badges and rank come especially to mind). To my way of thinking this includes Patrol patches, even if Supply Corporation sellss the "Rocking Chair" patch.
We can and should model patrol behaviors to the youth, and we should let the youth grow and develop with us watching from a distance ... but we should not pretend we are back as youth program members. We adults serve the youth in their growth and development. Period.
My opinion.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)
- Oct 2004
I (proudly) wore an Antelope patrol patch while atending WB C-19-06 and during the period while I worked my ticket. I had it on my uniform the night I was presented my necker, woggle, and beads.
I removed the treasured patch the week after the beading ceremony...the outline of the patch and the holes from the stitching are still visible. The patch is now resting next to the certificate I received along with my beads...looks good there.
I still see many Scouters that wear a WB patrol patch on their right sleeve, that is their choice. I have yet to get a WB name tag that will have an Antelope patch on the back...but I'll get around to it.
As for adult patrols and patches...if it works for you and benefits the Scouts...great. If it is just a thing that the adults are doing and it distracts from the boys...then get rid of 'em. Do what the COR asks...you're lucky to have a COR who knows what a patrol patch is.
- May 2008
Howdy! I found this forum recently and figured this would be a good a place as any to toss in my two pence.
I wore my patrol emblem during Wood Badge training (Britton's Beavers, SR839), but took it off when I attended my troop meetings between the Wood Badge sessions. Our leaders at Wood Badge reminded us of the uniform policies regarding adults wearing patrol emblems, no matter if they were Wood Badge specific or the youth ones corresponding to the Wood Badge animals. I still have my Beaver Patrol badge, but it is stored away with all my other memorabilia from the training. It'll probably go on a patch blanket or a rucksack with the rest of my collection.
In our little troop, the adults decided for a bit of fun to wear a patrol emblem that best represented us on the right shirt pocket, as that spot on the uniform is essentially for patches that don't belong elsewhere. Don't know if we're following the letter of the regs moreso than the spirit, but we are trying to stick by the regs, rules, guidelines, etc. as much as possible.
- Jul 2002
Like others have stated previously, adults should not wear patrol patches. Fact, many do. I look at it in the same way I view new Scouts wearing a Totin' Chit pocket flap or an older boy wearing his Paul Bunyon award on his shirt. Is it correct? No. I view it more as a misdemeanor and not a felony. Just like I don't criticize the SPL who still wears the patrol patch of his former patrol.
In our council, at summer camp they allow adults to earn the "scoutmaster merit badge." Of course, it really is not a merit badge at all but it does have strenuous requirements all based on getting the adult to help out and to get involved in the activities. The patch is the familiar "rocking chair" patrol patch. As a Scoutmaster, I encourage the adults to earn this and we use it as our patrol patch for our adult patrol - the rockers. Having an adult patrol does a few things for me. One, it gets the adults to act as a patrol and not hover over their son's all the time. Two, it can serve as a role model as to how a well functioning patrol should operate.
As for myself, I have a shirt with the patrol patch that I wear to troop functions - outings, troop meetings, etc. However, for "formal" meetings - roundtable, COHs, council meetings, Jambo's, etc. I always wear my "proper" shirt - sans a patrol patch.
So yes, your COR is correct. The next question I would ask the COR is if they would mind if you did wear a patrol patch if that is your desire.
As for Wood Badge (please, not Woodbadge), we all know that the Bears are the only real patrol that counts. There are lots of trinkets and patches related to Wood Badge and the various critter patrols. When emulating a troop, the adults are scouts and scouters so the wearing of position patches PL ,SPL etc. is okay for adults as well as for patrol patches during the course.
- Aug 2007
At our Woodbadge, the staff encouraged the patrols to adorn themselves with small uniform modifications that were specific to their patrols. Thus, the Antelopes wore leather hide pieces sown onto their belts. The eagle patrol came up with some kind of feathery sash, and the racoons had some kind of sunglasses that looked like a mask. We Bears (the only real patrol that counts) did not do much of this, except to wear a necklace of bear claws.
The message for scouters here was that patrols can add to their uniforms small tokens to show the patrol identiy, but they cannot take away from the normal uniform, and everyone in the patrol must have the same thing. I understood also that the troop can do such a thing for troop identity and spirit. One troop in our town wears a large 1880's type Cavalry hat with different colored hat bands to show special troop recognition. One wears the red beret's.
Perhaps we can adorn ourselves with a patch, as long as it is not permanently attached. An armband with a patch, or perhaps velcro would do the trick. I see the value in giving the scouts and the scouters some symbol of troop identity for scout spirit purposes, as long as the underlying uniform is preserved.
- Dec 2006
In our Troop we have come to calling the adults the "Geezer Patrol". We have set ourselves in this manner as a way to model to the youth an acting patrol. We have our design for a patch to let the scouts know they can do the same. At Summer camp we participate in the Adult Patrol Games and earn the merit badge for adults as well. We have our own Geezer Patrol cheer. On camping trips we set up our own duty roster and assign other duties to the adults as needed (ie Grubmaster, quartermaster). We have participated in several Patrol Service Projects, Working at the Habitat for Humanity warehouse for a day, Sewing blankets for the needy, Cooking for a Dedication Ceremony for the Open of a new Condo Unit for Habitat for Humanity.
Some may say we are just playing Boy Scout and as adults we are are not supposed to.
As I stated at the beginning, we are trying to model a working Patrol for the Scouts. We feel that if we ask the Scouts to work this way, Patrol Method, we should be able to do the same. We never have kids ask us, "How come the adults don't have to do it?" We lead by example. So by wearing our Geezer Patrol patch on our sleeve we are just showing a little Patrol Spirit, just like we ask our boys to do.
As far as Wood Badge patrol patches, neither I nor any of the adults in our Troop wear ours at Troop meetings. Its only during a beading ceremony that we remember who was in what patrol. And only then do we Buffalo reign supreme.
artjrk, welcome to the Forums...
"We lead by example. So by wearing our Geezer Patrol patch on our sleeve we are just showing a little Patrol Spirit, just like we ask our boys to do."
Only one problem. There's a prohibition in the Uniform Guide about adults wearing articles of the uniform designated for the youth program. Patrols (vice the Method) are for the youth.
We should not wear Patrol patches. Period.
I may be a Uniform Libertine, but this is one place where I am to the right of being card-carrying Uniform Police. It's great, and I laud you, to model the Method. That doesn't mean we ape the procedures.
- May 2008
Modeling patrol behavior (for the sake of setting an example and for organization) should be applauded. A patrol flag and a duty roster would be nice touches. Modeling proper uniforming should also be applauded... and that would include not wearing a patrol patch on an adult uniform.
It's pretty easy to do both.
Thanks, John. The Insignia Guide is not hard to understand, but it's apparently hard to follow.