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  • #16
    --I have yet to meet a Venturer in my Council who could recite the Venturer Oath.--

    The Oath isn't bad at all, now the Code, it is just a train wreck trying to recite. In the last Venturer handbook the Code was replaced in the front of the book with the Scout Law, the code was put in the very back of the book.

    I see the Sea Scouts having the hardest time with this.(This message has been edited by click23)


    • #17
      All of my Tigers can recite the Cub Scout Promise and Law of the Pack.

      None of the girls in my daughter's crew can recite the Venture Oath, but know the Scout Law.


      • #18
        Venturers who are less connected with our troop have less trouble with the venturing oath, but value oaths in general a lot less.

        Not sure if this policy will change that. We're still blending cultures that have developed on different trajectories for 13 years of the youths' life.


        • #19
          I see a major rewrite of the cub scout rank requirements.

          I hope so.

          Do we really need to do the (now obsolete) food pyramid for several years?

          Webelos references publications that no longer exist.

          Boys do Webelos requirements that are the exact same thing for Boy Scouts, such as the Athlete pin requirements that mirror Tenderfoot. I understand preparing boys for the next program, but doing the exact same thing is pretty pointless.


          • #20
            Twocubdad - "never seen a cub earn rank?" - Not sure where you are coming from. The only cub rank requirement for the cub promise and law are in bobcat. Those requirements are "learn and say" for promise and just "say" for law. We use that as a time of dicussion about the parts of the promise and what it means to be a scout. I've never seen that requirement interpretted as memorize. The only memorize requirement is for AOL where it says "repeat from memory". If "learn and say" was to mean memorize, then AOL requirement would not say "repeat from memory".

            So when I say I've never met a den leader or cubmaster that knew them by heart, I'm serious. On the flip side, I've met many adults that knew scout oath and law instantly and without hesitation.

            I've got a great story about this actually. Our school has a set of somewhat gruff janitors that have been very helpful to our pack for years. Love working with them. I was passing time with them after an event and asked if they had been scouts. One of the janitors responded by reciting the scout oath instantly, perfectly and without hesitation. I'll never forget. It was a great moment. They had both been boy scouts.


            • #21
              I see the Sea Scouts having the hardest time with this.

              I don't think it will be a problem for our Sea Scouts, at least not the Promise part. We've had several discussions about how to deal with the fact that the current promise is so hopelessly outdated. Seriously, it just seems totally out-of-place having a female boatswain reciting the promise to "to preserve the motto of the sea, Women and children first."


              • #22
                Is this more violin playing while Rome is burning?

                This is really stupid. A Cub Scout is a follower. A Boy Scout is learning independence. They should have different Laws and Oaths. But heck, I still think they should have Lions and promise to be square.


                • #23

                  While the "women and children first" may seem quaint and outdated, it is not. I don't remember where exactly in Europe it was, I think in Scandinavia, but a ferry had an accident and was sinking. Instead of people helping one another out, especially kids who could not swim, there was a mad scramble for lifejackets and people fighting over them.


                  I've been back involved in Cub Scouts for only 4 years now, but the Cubs I've wokre with DO know the Promise and LOTP.

                  I for one do not like the change. the programs lose the age appropriateness and Venturing loses more of its identity. However I do like the Corps of Discovery proposal to use the Venturing Oath and Code as their own.


                  • #24
                    Eagle92 - I agree the concept is still useful, if the concept is "all the able-bodied people should help anyone who needs help before taking care of themselves." And the "children" part seems ok. The thing that seems really outdated is the idea that women are automatically part of the group that needs help, and isn't part of the group that is doing the helping. When women are serving on a ship's crew, I don't think we should assume that the passengers should be helping the crew members off. At any rate, I know that some of the women in our ship are happy to see the change.


                    • #25
                      had a nice young lady in the Crew who was quite the Female Lib type. As the Crew aged, the guys were all registering for Selective Service. I asked her if being the self professed womens equality advocate she was, did she fell slighted in not be able to sign up for Selective Service, she did change the subject...


                      • #26
                        Stupid move. Cub Scouts had its own traditions and migration to the new oath and law when Cubs bridge over helps provide a mental and emotional demarcation. They aren't Cubs anymore, they're BOY Scouts.


                        • #27
                          Like a dog wizzing on a bush just so other dogs know he's been there.

                          Clearly Fido needs a refresher LNT course.


                          • #28
                            I'm not a big fan of the change but it that's what is going to happen, so be it. I'm the CM of my Pack, my sons are Webelos I & II so they will be learning the Oath and Law anyway. But what about all the other kids that are already in the Pack and will still be there in 2015. Do we start that year off with the new oath and law that no one knows or should we start transitioning now. I'm thinking of having the boys start learning it now.

                            I don't worry about them no being able to learn them. If you've hung around with the little guys they can usually list every Pokemon or whatever the new trend is. I'm confident that once the growns up get used to it, the boys will quickly follow suit.


                            • #29

                              This is just another example of how the National BSA has lost their way and has no logical reasoning behind this move. Maybe it is time for for Irving, Tx to start trimming all the deadwood that exsists with their current staffing, and put in some people with true vision about what the BSA is truly supposed to be. Instead lets get rid of all those pencil pushing desk jockeys there now with all their moronic ideas in a pathetic attempt to save their jobs.


                              • #30
                                This is the straw that has broken the camel's back for me. It is time to be done. This is not the program I have been with for 43years, and now it is time for me to go as I am too bitter over this, and banned use of wheelbarrows and Radio Flyers, and $75 tins of popcorn.

                                I thank all of the great Scouters I have known thuout the years, and wish sanity will return to the program I love.
                                ETC(SW) retired