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  • Service Hours... double dipping ok?

    Can a Scout use the hours accumulated from a Scout Service project for both rank advancement requirements and school requirements? Scouts in our Troop who attend both public and parochial schools are required to earn a significant # of hours -- 75 for the public and various amounts for the different parochial schools. Is it double dipping if they use the same hours for both?

  • #2
    SM call. Base your decision on the aims of scouting - character, citizenship, fitness. If you are achieving your aims, then it works.

    Explore why the issue is coming up. Perhaps take a look at your troops service projects - is there good participation from the scouts? Or are there scouts that dont participate in them (or would choose not to participate in them if given a choice) because they believe that they have met the rank requirement through school "required" service?

    If the first, then the issue wouldn't arise, because the scouts have far exceeded the minimum required for rank advancement.

    If the later, then your troop has a different issue - that scouts are seeing service as a requirement, rather than as an opportunity to do good deeds by helping others for the simple reason that others need help. Something that is done because that is what a good citizen does.

    Addition: sorry, I misread the original message. You specifically asked about a participation in a scouting service project. As moosetracker says, it is the schools call as to whether they accept it.(This message has been edited by venividi)


    • #3
      May also be the schools call.. It was not a question for the Scoutmaster when my son went through it, because the school set the rule that the service time could not be while doing a service project with some other organization.


      • #4
        Clears his throat.....

        so what is the lesson we are teaching by double dipping???

        So is it about short cuts?????

        In my opinion, it is not ok. I have several parents that disagree, of course in their opinion their 12 year old has earned his eagle.


        • #5
          I agree, the call is up to the school. But I don't see why not, as long as the service projects are good, solid work. Labeling service as 'school' or 'work' or both doesn't change the experience, and depending on the school's requirements could be an undue burden on the youth.


          • #6
            I don't see a problem using the hours for both. Think about how many other school items we count towards advancement. I'm think Cub Scouts right now. Sometimes to book specifically states that an item can be part of a school, family or scout activity.
            An example: The 4th grade curriculum has a section on electronics that mirrors what is in the Webelos handbook for the Science Activity Pin. Since we know the boys will have it covered we do not need to go over it all again in a meeting. We may have a quick activity using some of the items learned. But why rehash the material.

            There are just a few items in Boy scouts where the handbook states that items can not be used for double-dipping.


            • #7
              My youth don't go to private schools and don't have any requirement for service hours for their education.


              • #8
                Basement It is not a private school thing.. The public schools are getting into the act too.. For our public school it was I believe Junior & Senior year and about 100 service hours..


                • #9
                  Our troop has no trouble with double dipping. Why not? The scout did something nice for someone else. The response should be entirely "wow, that's great. what a nice thing to do.". It's about character development and not balance sheet accounting. But then again, we rarely have trouble finding service hours to list.

                  It's key to emphasize we do service because it's a moral good and it's a reflection of our care for others. We are not doing service to legalistically check off a requirement (a bad lesson to teach).

                  In my mind, "required volunteer service" is an oxymoron ... in the same way that sending a check to the IRS is not a charitable contribution.

                  It's also an oxymoron to do volunteer service because of your own needs (checking off a requirement). For example we do camp service projects to say thank you and to leave the place a little better for the next group. Not because we need service hours for advancement.

                  Advancement is a dance. We're looking to develop a scout's character but also must complete the requirements as stated. BSA never says anything about it that so why not count it. Favor the scout.


                  • #10
                    Some schools have minimum service hours.
                    and I believe some states have added service hours as a graduation requirement.

                    for instance my high schooler has to have service hours for scouts--working on his Eagle project
                    service hours for FFA (5 hours a month)
                    service hours for NHS (10 hours a month)
                    and 30 service hours per semester for the high school itself

                    if there was no overlapping, the student might be hard pressed to meet all of these required volunteer hours.

                    some of these will count things done scouting,
                    some will count OA service, and some won't count unless it's for another community organization, and some will count cleaning up a neighborhood park of trash even if mom was the only adult present to verify completion.

                    If volunteer hours are required,
                    are they then voluntold hours?


                    • #11
                      Guess our unit might be the exception....we typically get 4 or 5 hours a month just for the troop and pack. Delivering food boxes and working the CO's food pantry.


                      • #12
                        We encourage our youth to leverage their Eagle projects or Bronze award requirements for school requirements. It makes for senior projects of a higher caliber. Our school holds them up as exemplary projects.


                        • #13
                          I count it.


                          • #14
                            I would think it would be up to the school, but hopefully they will allow it. Otherwise that is one more thing competing for the time of the youth in our Troops. And given the choice between a project required for graduation and a requirement for Star Scout, I suspect graduation will win.


                            • #15
                              Yah, hmmmm.... Really?

                              Six hours of service sometime in da space of 6 months is really so terrible and awful and onerous for da poor, traumatized, incapable lads that they just have to double count it with what is required for National Honor Society? :P

                              Yah, service should just be a regular part of a boy's life, and I'd expect for a Star or Life Scout being a regular part of his life means a fair bit more than averaging 1 hour a month (and only when there's an award in play).

                              Now, I reckon a bit depends on da nature and purposes of each group's expectations. If da school just wants to get the kids out doin' stuff, then they might accept an overlap with, say, a church youth group expectation. But in terms of a scout's Honor, I'm not convinced that a boy should ever try to double-count service for which he is receiving an award or recognition.