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  • Committe Chair issue

    Very long story but could use some advice. My husband and I are Wolf leaders. Last year, the Pack was at about 30+ kids. This year our pack is down to less than 15. Our Committee Chair asked my husband if he could be Cub Master. My husband said he could not commit to that due to his schedule(he works weekends) At the time the current CC was the CM. The Chartered Organization Rep is the CM/CC wife. So when it came time to recharter in December, the CM put my husbands name down as CM and his name down as Committee Chair. Without telling him! This man has a son in Boy Scouts and has a daughter who has medical issues. I am a stay at home mom. I have offered my services to him several times. Have given him suggestions on how to do things. Each time he does not take it. We have a horrible torn out for Pack meetings. Only the Wolf group and 1 or 2 Tigers(there are only 3) The Bears occasionally turn up. There was no formal training for the Tiger leader except from me because she had no one else. The Pinewood was pitiful and the Blue and Gold was too. After we found out that he put my husbands name down without permission, we feel forced to take over. I don't want to go to another Pack, but I don't think that I can work with the man. He planned no camp outs for the boys this year because he was doing Boy Scout stuff. Which is fine but.....he also has a responsibility to the group he is supposed to be leading. Doesn't he? I guess I just need some ideas on how to handle this situation. I have had parents come up to me and say that they will probably not do this again next year if its going to be like this. It makes me sad. Now I feel like I'm ranting. Our Last leader meeting is tonight and suggestions would be helpful. Thanks

  • #2
    another post from either an Ipad or Iphone.

    Paragraphs are your friend......

    Find another Pack is the easiest solution.

    Sounds like your CC/CM is finished with Cub scouting. He is looking for the door but just hasn't found it yet. Speak to the COR/wife and mention you would like to be CM....Being a stay at home mom you have plenty of time to run the pack.

    He can't just put your name on the charter as CM with out an application to go along with it.......It might just be our council, but everytime you change position you are required to submit a fresh application.

    No, is always a valid answer and response especially if you did not say yes to being a leader.

    Far as the cc/CM planning stuff, a pack isn't a one man volunteer to plan the Fall Pack campout. Didn't like the pinewood derby, start planning now to improve it.....

    Failing to plan is planning to fail.


    • koolaidman
      koolaidman commented
      Editing a comment
      I agree with everything Basementdweller said here. Personally, I'd start shopping Packs.

  • #3
    It is the same within my council. Every change in Adult Positions, a new App is required.
    Have your husband send an email to the CC & COR stating that he is not the CM, but are Den Leaders. You are not forced to do anything.

    Time for you both, if possible to go to Roundtable and find the District Commissioner and let them know what is going on. You cannot take over the Pack.
    There is training within the District for all positions. Go to them and tell the Pack Leaders that you are.

    The CC & COR are not doing any service to the youth of the Pack. They need to move on. Parents need to step-up and take on positions within the Pack.
    Hence, my note about finding the District Commissioner. They can get you a Unit Commissioner to help get your pack pointed in the right direction. They also can get the District Training Chair/Team involved and get everyone trained. The District Exec can look over the Charter and see what's going on with that.


    • #4
      Well, he can try to put your husband down as CM but as was pointed out your husband has to fill out a new membership form for the new position and turn it in to council for it to be legit.

      Find a new pack. I know the saying is "for the boys" but you can let some of those other parents step up and help.


      • #5
        Ummm.... Perhaps your councils are different. In our council, if you are registered in the unit, your name can be shifted around between different positions in the unit WITHOUT a new application. If you are NOT registered in the unit, yes, a new app is needed.

        But for years, I've changed leader titles both at recharter and as needed using a change of leadership form.

        Tiger den leader --> Cub scout den leader
        Cub Den leader --> Webelos den leader
        ASM --> scoutmaster
        Scoutmaster --> ASM
        Committee member --> ASM


        • mozartbrau
          mozartbrau commented
          Editing a comment
          Wow that is different. My council you need a new app for every position. SM=app. MB Counselor=another app. It is a standing joke in our area exactly how many apps you submit in your Scout life. My personal record is 5 so far. I know someone who has submitted 8. So much for the 21st Century technology.

        • King Ding Dong
          King Ding Dong commented
          Editing a comment
          I think your council is the exception. I just got back from talking to scouter services and the only slack they will cut is we don't have to fill out all the references if we are already registered.

      • #6
        Fred is full of it....or his council just isn't running it right....... Like MB I have filled out a dozen or so apps over the years.

        First the cub pack and troop are separate organizations.....

        You would have to make application to join......If they do it at recharter time we are required include a new application with the charter as well as a youth protection certificate.


        • #7
          Nope Basement, Fred is correct. You can change positions in the SAME unit (Pack and Troop for the same CO are still 2 different units) without a new app, I was Den leader for 3 years then Cubmaster for 2, and never filled out a new form when I switched. Some councils may require a new app, but not all.


          • #8
            Not in our council.....


            • #9
              ADCinNC is right. You have to already be registered in the unit. You need an application to associate with a unit. Each unit is an entity in and off itself. After registered in the unit, you can change position without a new app. Still takes COR signature though. Our council has a single page form. I'm the CC & COR in each of my units. Just makes life a lot easier.

              At recharter time though, you can change people's titles almost at a whim within the same unit.


              • #10

                What happened at your leader meeting last night?

                As Seattle Pioneer has suggested in another post, your Pack should change the Leader Meetings to Parent Meetings. All the parents are members of the committee and they should be encouraged to attend and provide input and volunteer to help out--especially if you are down to 15 scouts. I assume the CC/CM is running all the events?? At this point, all of your parents need to take on a role within the Pack: Camping Chair, Blue and Gold Chair, Competition Chair (Pinewood, Raingutter Regatta, etc.), Service Projects Chair, Fall Recruitment Chair, Fundraising Chair, etc. Who is in charge of these activities?

                Your CC/CM is burned out and done. Unfortunately, he doesn't know how to transition his position or to ask for help. It is going to be the responsibility of the remaining parents to pick up the reigns. Rather than make suggestions on how to do things, you should tell him exactly what you are going do and then do it. He doesn't need suggestions, he needs volunteers.

                Otherwise, you will lose members and you will need to move to another Pack.


                • #11
                  Originally posted by ADCinNC View Post
                  Nope Basement, Fred is correct. You can change positions in the SAME unit (Pack and Troop for the same CO are still 2 different units) without a new app, I was Den leader for 3 years then Cubmaster for 2, and never filled out a new form when I switched. Some councils may require a new app, but not all.
                  My brother is in a council near national HQ. In fact he does his registration at the national HQ which doubles as the council HQ and scout shop. Even there, he says, you have to complete a new app for each role you hold. ASM to SM = new app. SM to TC = new app. SM + MBC = two apps. Etc.

                  This is at national. So my money is on that you need an app for each role stupid as that sounds.

                  As far as the question originally asked, there is no way someone else can sign you up for something. That, in every council, is a big, fat no-no.


                  • #12
                    Not to delay this as it's not key to the original poster's comments...


                    See "Does a leader need a new application for each time ...". It indicates it's okay at recharter because the IH is signing the recharter. Our council has a short "Change Of Position" form that requires the COR signature (same signature that goes on the new leader application) to approve the position title change. I'm the CC & COR in our units. So I sign that form and it's a done deal. It's really not that big of a deal and not requiring a new application saves a lot of headaches. Plus every time I've rechartered our pack, 50% of the leaders (i.e. most of the den leaders) change position anyway between (TL, DL, WL, CM, ACM, MC, etc)

                    I've only needed to use the form when replacing the CM or SM or when a leader is chasing knots and needs every month of credit possible.


                    • #13
                      Plus ... SM + MBC is two applications because one is a troop registration and the MBC is a district registration. Two different units.


                      • #14
                        Council tells us volunteers the do a new background check with every if that is true or not.......honestly I just don't see them wasting the money doing my background check for the 8th time.....

                        No doubt some do and some don't. Consistency in the BSA


                        • #15
                          Am I reading the original posters rant wrong?

                          This one guy is stuck with leading the entire pack and doing all the paperwork for it. Her and her husband have 0 time to step up to even be the Cubmaster and run Pack Meetings. The guy is keeping Committee chair, so all her husband has to do is be the showman for the Pack Meeting and keep the kids pumped up? I assume her husband attends the pack meetings so no big difference in leading them than just sitting there.

                          Complaining on how this one guy doesn't plan campouts or make events great for the pack? He is one guy! Suggestions on what work he should be doing is TOTALLY different from saying "Hi, we will handle the plans for the blue and gold and make it awesome", that works a lot better than saying "You know you could do this and this and that and make it good, yes you do the work and I will just sit here and tell you what you should be doing!"

                          I donno, I would suggest to take a BIG step back and look at how the Pack must look from this guy and his wife's vision. They are having to fill every position and be responsible for everything. You need to actually step up and DO things, not just expect this poor couple to do everything on their own, or do things that you suggest.

                          I would highly recommend having a parent meeting and getting more parents to step up in your Pack. If you do not get ANY parents willing to step up and help out next year with the Pack, well then I would consider the Pack dead. Have ideas of things that the parents can step up and help out with. Be proactive by volunteering yourself to plan an event or two. Packs are only great packs if the parents put the time and effort into them. Its very hard for one couple to do it all alone.


                          • ScoutNut
                            ScoutNut commented
                            Editing a comment
                            What JC said in spades!

                            It sounds like your Pack is made up of a bunch of folks who want it all, but don't want to actually DO ANYTHING. They want "Someone Else" to do the work to make the Pack go.

                            It is NOT the job of the CC (or CM) to plan/run Blue & Gold, Pinewood Derby, or campouts. That should all be done by other volunteers (leaders, parents) in the Pack. But wait, there ARE no other folks willing to step up and take on these activities. The CC/CM/COR can only do so much without any help. So some activities fall by the wayside.

                            Training new leaders - Again, this is the job of a Pack Trainer, or your Council/District, not a CC/CM/COR who is already over worked. Perhaps the CC directed the new Tiger leaders to the BSA's online training, and/or your Council/District's in-person training, and they just did not wish to take advantage of any of it. With everything else your Pack wants the CC to do for it, he does not have the time to spoon-feed leaders who are unwilling to do anything for themselves too.

                            Being "forced" into the CM position - A Pack can NOT be rechartered without someone registered as Cubmaster on the charter. A Committee Chair can NOT register as BOTH a CC, AND a CM. It sounds like the CC asked folks to step up as CM, and could get NOBODY to commit. At that point the CC, and COR had 2 choices -
                            1) Declare the Pack officially dead, and close down completely.
                            2) Put the name of someone on the charter as CM to give the Pack a bit of a reprieve, and then - hopefully - find someone who will be willing to actually do the job.

                            It seems your CC chose option # 2.

                            Silly him. It sounds like he should have chosen option #1.

                            BTW - it seems like every Council is different in how it handles recharter positions within a unit. My Council is also one of those that does NOT require a brand new application when positions are being changed WITHIN the SAME unit. We are allowed to simply change position titles on the charter at recharter time. The Charter Org signs off on it, and the new charter, with new positions, is a done deal.