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  • #16
    Here is what I would suggest:

    1) Get your son into a new Troop - one that does things right - or form a new Troop - and don't be afraid to recruit from the old Troop - surely, your son isn't the only one who is tired of Troop meetings being all dodgeball all the time.

    2) Stop doing joint fundraisers, outings, anything between the Pack and the Troop - separate them administratively and progamatically.

    3) Contact the DC and tell him you want a new UC assigned to the Pack. Given that the DC appears to know what's going on, the DC should have no problem with this. If the DC balks, tell him/her it isn't a request, it's a demand and if it isn't met, your next call will be to the Council Commissioner.

    4) Make it clear to the Troop that the Pack will not be automatically feeding the Troop it's Webelos - that the Webelos Dens will be visiting multiple Troops and will be letting parents know what to look for in a good, Boy-lead Troop and a bad Adult-run Troop - and that you wn't be afraid to use any Troop as an example of a badly run Troop, even if it's the Troop that shares a CO.

    5) Go have a cuppa with the CO - explain what's going on with the Troop, how it is negatively impacting the Pack, and how the Pack is dealing with it - if the CO starts balking, go start a new Pack with a different CO (perhaps the CO of the Troop that the DD has suggested could be re-started) - and poach mercilessly from the old Pack, though I would be surprised if it comes that way - Frankly, it doesn't sound as if the CO is engaged at all.

    6) - MOST IMPORTANTLY - See #1. Nothing else matters right now than the fact that your son is very unhappy and wants to quit Scouting altogether. You need to focus on fixing that one way or another. If you can't get him in to a new Troop, then let him quit - you forcing him to remain a Scout in a Troop that he downright hates isn't going to do your relationship with your son any good.


    • #17
      Frankly, I found it too painful to read all the way to the end.

      I suspect you're probably right, and they're probably wrong. But at this point, I don't think it really matters. Your son needs to find a different troop.

      If it's the same CO, and they expect the Pack to be "feeding" the Troop, then it's probably time to find a different pack.


      • #18
        I understand how this --

        Aftermath.. 1 scouter hospitalized, 1 scout hospitalized, and 4 scouts have to see the doctor for various ailments aquired during summer camp. Mainly from excessive chigger bites and not taking care of blisters that got infected and became very nasty. Did I mention one scout for shoes only brought flip-flops?

        -- could make you concerned. But any Scout who doesn't know how to take care of his own chigger bites and blisters needs a serious personal hygeine and personal first-aid refresher. And chigger bites will go away with time.


        • #19
          Well, follow up... all I can say is OMG! The CoR refused to return phonecalls. We started the new troop, the CoR got wind from the scoutmaster and went BALLISTIC. They waited for us to recharter the pack (needing me to charter as the trained cubmaster), then after that called me the day after Christmas and fired me. I sent a letter to all the parents... I was fired for a conflict of interest, my wife was fired for being married to me, and if she was a committee member even the committee couldn't say things (slander me) around her. My younger son should also find a new pack. They will take care of the other commitments we have going for us.

          Well... we start getting calls from parents and leaders... parents explain that their son was NEVER going to troop 200 after what they had personally seen, it was just nice that I had made a new troop to continue on. They ask if they can join the pack we are taking our son to. I have found out since then the principle parties in this, and the scoutmaster was given a transcript of the phonecall between me and CoR (excuse me?!?). Hmm... one of our leaders was suckered into helping, and was spreading all kinds of lies... too bad she got caught by every person involved, but some were so off and they had seen them with their own eyes. There were so many lies being told it wasn't even possible to get to the bottom of them all... the call was an interview, but they had called the 'new' leaders and informed them of our dismissal three days before that? The decision hadn't been made, but your telling a leader to remove the CC from the checking account?... wow.

          A call to the excectutive revealled that the CoR was NOT the CoR and was not speaking on behalf of the CO. Opps, she had no authority to fire me. I was asked 'do you want your job back'... my only response was... "I cannot work with the current troop leadership, and I will not be in a position where I am constantly getting calls from council about lies, so no, you need to remove the leadership of the troop, and I won't make you make that choice, I am going to go where I don't have this kind of drama, I am a volunteer, and this is not what I did that for"

          So... the good and the bad..
          1. We are in a new troop with a single small patrol... and the boys love the fact they are getting all the say in what is going on, as long as it is within scouts.
          2. My leaders and cubs are now coming to the new troop with our son, to quote the boys 'scouting is scouting without those two'.
          3. The old pack is down to 4 leaders and maybe 8 cubs
          4. Several parents have dropped their kids from scouting, the dismissal of myself and my wife being a slap in the face and they have said if this is what scouting is they don't want to be part of it.
          5. The CO will be becoming active with whatever remains of the pack, most likely they will ask the boys to move to their other pack (the CO has two packs) and fold that one.
          6. The troop will still not get fed and will die off, as now they have no feeder pack at all, instead of getting at least a few boys.

          Talk about chomping on the hand that feeds ya!

          But hey, thanks for all your advise, I wish things could have gone better, but, even with hindsight there is nothing different I could have done... they made their choices. We look forward to a few more years of stress free scouting with people who are much into scouting and less into drama.

          and sorry i haven't posted anything else, I have been dealing with this for the past month, it is amazing how much energy it has taken up.


          • #20

            My situation wasn't quite as complicated. We had one new (two years, and former Scout of this same Troop), big mouthed adult who complained about the Troop program. I was the SM and followed the program for over 33 years. The program works. This idiot wouldn't take care of his Committee responsibilities, and the CC wasn't confident in his duties to keep this guy straight. Big mouth got the COR involved to stir things up even more, and since the COR didn't know his responsibilities, he allowed big mouth to hold a public meeting in the parking lot in front of the Scouts to openingly critisize me. I took this as a "no confidence" vote from the COR. After this public meeting (I didn't defend myself), I quietly approached the COR (we all go to the same church that sponsors this Troop), and resigned.
            Two years later at a wedding reception for one of my Eagle Scouts (and Iraq veteran), several former parents of Scouts from the old Troop wanted to look into starting a new Troop in the same neighborhood. We all started meeting weekly on an unofficial basis. We talked to the former Scouts (the old Troop went from 20 active Scouts to 5 sort of active Scouts), about starting a new Troop. We explained that it would take some work on their part, but we could create a new program for them once again, doing it the right way. They were very excited. We contacted Council/District, found a sponsor, and chartered 12/30/10.
            We start with three former Scouts (experienced leadership that I trained at the old Troop), two cousins, and four friends. It's a great start, and we hadn't started recruiting yet. We have all required adult leadership (trained), and more on the way.
            Before we thought about starting a new Troop, I had two serious talks with my pastor about the old Troop. He said he understood my concerns, but the church wants to be inclusive and didn't want to remove any Scouts or leaders from the old Troop. The old Troop will recharter with just the minimum adult leaders and Scouts. They have no Pack or connection with the church. I see no future for them. The old Troop has a Scout building (the Scouts built it back in 1968, I was there), canoes and a ton of equipment I donated to the Troop over the years. Of course, it all belongs to the church.
            So, the new Troop starts from scratch, but these new Scouts are excited about their new program.

            I think you made the best choice, so your son can be a part of a real Scouting program. Build it and they will come. Congratulations. You can have some fun too.

            And that's what it's all about. WWW



            • #21
              I love stories with a happy ending!


              • #22
                Sometimes, our senses of duty and resilence both hurt and help us.

                Sometimes we stay in situations that aren't healthy out of loyalty, etc.

                But there are times it's best to cut bait......

                Best wishes in your new unit! The fresh air is no doubt welcome after your previous unit.


                • #23
                  WoW! Your posts really ring with me. Check out my post on appropriate discipline for another story of a dysfunctional troop.

                  My H was an ACM and when our youngest son moved up to the troop last March, he decided to stay because all new leadership was taking over and were inexperienced. He also volunteered to lead the Webelos 2 den. In our pack, the Webelos den leader takes the boys to the local troops to visit.

                  Due to the issues outlined in my thread, last week, my H informed the SM of our (currently former) troop that he was NOT bringing his Webelos to visit as long as the current CC and ASM are in place and, by the way, he has committed to lead Webelos 2 for the next 3 years (until the troop celebrates its 100 anniversary - IF it's around).

                  We have also begun a venture crew (we have older sons of 20, 16 and 14 who moved over to that unit, along with some of their friends and we are hoping for some cross-registration from the troop). I am the CC, H is the crew advisor, and my son who was expelled from the troop is crew president. We've had 2 successful meetings so far - a group cooking event and a shooting sports roundtable which the crew members ran for the other VCs in the district. Our next meeting is supposed to be a course in the new CPR methods run by an Eagle Scout (in his late 20's) who will probably join us as an adult leader. His mom is a friend of H's from college and after her divorce, H was like a father figure to this young man.

                  I mentioned our activities just because I wanted to show that a new group can start and do good things.

                  I know how hard it is when that 11 year old in unhappy and wants to quit scouting.

                  Good luck to you.


                  • #24
                    concscouter - Good Luck, and happy Scouting!

                    BTW - Call your council registrar and make sure they take you, and your wife, off of your old Pack's charter.


                    • #25
                      Well, not a happy ending... they just kinda said they cannot commit to the 28 derbies we had setup for fundraising. They took the equipment sunday, and then let the other packs known last night... mind you, first derby is Friday.

                      OMG, this is insane. District is involved, chartering organization is involved. 1000+ cubscouts let down. I can't get a track till mid-feb. Anybody near STL that can loan me a track and timer for three months?


                      • #26
                        I kindof have a disconnect concscouter..Not sure where the 28 derbies & the equipment they took from you has to do with everything else in the post.. Didn't you just start the new troop? what equipment do you have yet that can be taken away? How was your very small troop planing to host 28 Derbies for fundraising.. Wouldn't that have been a huge undertaking? What kind of derbies??

                        Color me confused!!!


                        • #27

                          My interpretation is that the pack that Conc left has the only track in the district, and rents it out to the other packs. Conc as the old leader did all the work to lend it out, scheduling derbies with the rest of the district and what not, only to have the new leaders say, no we are not going to rent it out anymore.

                          Sounds spiteful if you ask me.

                          One idea is that if the CO is on good terms with ya Conc, then inform them what has happened and how it is affecting the entire district. Your new unit may have some problems getting it, so I wouldn't count on you using it, but hopefully the new leaders will reconsider for the rest of the district. Their pettiness to you will prevent them from lettin you use it.


                          • #28
                            @eagle92 - you got it right on the money. It doesn't serve the entire district, just half of it.

                            Wow, not only did I contact district, but so did several other units. For one day, the entire district turned upside down. I am on good terms with the old CO, and several other issues are being looked into. I don't know what is going to happen to the old pack, but I think we left them with just a few boys (I can't help it if the boys follow me). But, this all stems from the troop being mad that I might take all the boys, and their spitefulness (you hit it right on eagle92) and instead, they managed to destroy the pack that feeds them. Really smart, but here is the most important thing to me...

                            Not my problem anymore. I can't fix everything, but I can make sure that in the new unit I just formed, I give the best program I can to the boys. I can commit to helping the feeder pack and support them in what they need. I know that may sound mean, and selfish, and maybe not scoutlike, but if they continue down the path they are following they won't be around much longer, so they won't tarnish scouting anymore anyway. It will burn itself out and resolve itself.

                            thanks everybody for the kind words and support and reading my ramblings.