Announcement

Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

Did anyone else get hate spewing email this morning?

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Did anyone else get hate spewing email this morning?

    About the upcoming vote on homosexuals allowed to be members.. I think a wee bit late, as the time of National polling is done, and now it is just a few people voting on the issue.. But the topic was of a side-note..

    I am looking at it more as how can anyone call themselves a Scout and send this hate spewing, fear mongering complete with about 10 resque pictures of the most flamboyant of the homosexuals (I don't know why one guy carring a female blowup sex doll down the street made him part of the flamboyant homosexual crowd, but.. OK.. The others were more on track with the homosexuals.. Anyway, how can you send that out to other people in your scouting group, and still be called a moral decent scouter??

    I didn't recognize the name of the person, but my working at district level and having sent out training announcements through e-blasts means I wont know everyone.. It could be spam mail that just happened to connect with a real scouter.. But the email encouraged me to pass on the email to all my friends and fellow scouters, which made me fear someone in our district / council brainlessly did just that..


    I forwarded it to my DE, pre-empted with a note that it was not sent to him in order to pass it to all scouters I knew, but for him to check if this guy was in our district/ council, so that he could take the correct actions against the person sending the email..


    Just curious if anyone else has recieved this delightful post, and if you did anything about it.. Hopefully you did not pass it on, because I don't think you will stay a member of the BSA much longer after you did.. My feeling is the words may not have put him over the top. With that he may have only gotten his hand slapped. But he crossed the line sending out the pictures that were in the email..

  • #2
    I have not, fortunately. I would be very interested in seeing what the crazies are up to. Any chance you can post it somewhere and provide a link?

    Comment


    • #3
      Well, it's the internet...who knows who the person really was.

      [img]http://www.unc.edu/depts/jomc/academics/dri/idog.jpg[\img]

      Comment


      • #4
        King Ding Dong -- Nada, Nada, Nada.. Except for my DE, no one else.. I don't want to be kicked out.. I thought about summarizing the words (minus the pictures), but then I would still be helping them "spread the hate and fear mongering".. So, you will just have to hope to be so lucky that someone will choose to share it with you..

        I will give you a very brief overview though.. This thing is 10 pages long in MS Word, just the text alone, without the pictures.. Some stuff that we have heard here about homosexuals being the same thing as pedophiles, with some crimes of pedophiles for the scare tactic.. Linking Homosexuality (as well as planned parenthood) to the government sterilization in the 50's and some wild extra claims on the subject.. That ALL major religions are against it, and if they are not they can't inturpret their bibles correctly.. Here is a good line.. I will write it exactly as it is written "There are still many who realize the truth of the problems caused by a female Scout leader. It is sometimes an unavoidable necessity if there are no men for the role, but it should be a last resort." Some added fears that what we see on the surface is not all there is, there are secret secret nasty things that never reach the light of day, (Something along the light of if the guy in the news with the 3 women he kidnapped and tortured for 10 years is a heterosexual, well then that is how all you heterosexual males are, only turn it around to be about homosexuals). And then there are the pictures.. Lots & Lots of pictures, some with almost naked females with pasties, Men were better clothed (shucks), but some nice bulges accented in their choice of attire, then just wild rainbow outfits and weird haridos (all pictures had the benifit of captions that, had lude remarks about them.). All seem to be from some gay pride parade of some sort..

        Mozart - It does have an email and name attached, so unless the person was hacked, you know who the person was.. The question then becomes are they in the district or council, and if so is that their valid email, and if so you can then question him about it, and perhaps others around him as to how loud and intolerant his comments have been in public settings.. Someone as brazen as this would not be just sending out email..

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by moosetracker View Post
          Mozart - It does have an email and name attached, so unless the person was hacked, you know who the person was.. The question then becomes are they in the district or council, and if so is that their valid email, and if so you can then question him about it, and perhaps others around him as to how loud and intolerant his comments have been in public settings.. Someone as brazen as this would not be just sending out email..
          Not the case. Bad guys don't need to hack an account to create an email that appears to come from somebody else. It's a 7 second process once a person's email is known. There are some things in place to slow it down but it's not difficult.

          Comment


          • #6
            My son & husband send out emails that LOOK like they are coming from them, but if you look closely you can tell it is from someone else that is using their name.. I got hacked once and I sent out email, that looked like it was truely coming from me, I had to change my password and my security question, and they never went out again.. I program for the LOOK like it's comeing from someone else all the time at work, due to automating a process that spits email, or sending email through a program.. Program asks who they are, and then when they send the email the program makes it LOOK like it came from them.. But, if you look closely you can see that it did not, even without getting into all the heavy technical crap they use to track down real serious criminals..


            The true telling though will be how he is vocally expressing his opinion on the issue.. Has he been in his DE's face spitting garbage similar? Have other complained about his comments? If he is stupid enough to send this out, what would happen if you walk up to him and discuss the email like it was an eye opener to you, or you agree with what he said in it? Anyone who is believing this crap is not running on all fours to begin with, and is already full of himself..

            Comment


            • #7
              Well someone went down the list of emails at our council, or is in our council, and sent out to the Scouters on his email list.. My DE just responded.. He said he got it too.. They all did, and the council is nine to happy.. (I think he meant to say "none to happy:, not "nine to happy").. He didn't comment on if the person was a real person or not.. I will have to see if anyone else in my family got it, and I think I will ask the trainers at tomorrows training if any of them got it (not the participants)..

              Comment


              • #8
                Like my Cub Scouts used to shout every time there was the sound of breaking glass....I didn't do it!

                Just ignore it. That stuff speaks for itself and people who think it is meaningful are hopeless already.

                Comment


                • #9
                  No emails around here. I did, however go to one of our council's "town hall" meetings on the topic and was very disappointed in and saddened by my fellow Scouters.

                  Comment


                  • packsaddle
                    packsaddle commented
                    Editing a comment
                    You were expecting something different?

                  • Krampus
                    Krampus commented
                    Editing a comment
                    My town hall was disappointing as well but mostly because leaders were reluctant to express their views in public. I think they may have been reluctant to "come out" on either side of the debate for fear of alienating friends and colleagues. The in-your-face fanatics on both sides have polarized this issue, and any decision, so much that whoever loses is going to feel slighted and oppressed.

                    I have seen emails on both side of the debate. Some have been reasonable and some have been hateful. Par for the course.

                • #10
                  Nothing here, thank goodness. I could do without something like that (especially when I'm normally happy to see anything related to scouting arrive in my inbox.) As for the sender, some people get hacked, some get 'mimicked' (just for someone with an agenda to look authentic, and they can easily do so as long as they have the know how) and some people just feel that strongly about it. I was not a part of any discussions on this matter for our pack nor do I know how our council/the other packs around here feel about it. I imagine I would not share the same ideas as most in our group and may be why I wasn't included, no way to know for sure (still learning the hierarchy with all this as well.)

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    The email sounds dreadful. But it is a perfect example of what to expect when a policy exists that treats a class of people as inferior. Basically it gives the green light to haters to spread their hateful message. Scouting doesn't need those people. If the BSA allows gays, it will flush out this kind of trash.

                    Just imagine what a gay scout will have to endure by gay-hating scouters if the proposed policy is approved.

                    Comment


                    • packsaddle
                      packsaddle commented
                      Editing a comment
                      What makes you think they don't 'endure it' already?

                  • #12
                    Originally posted by packsaddle View Post
                    What makes you think they don't 'endure it' already?
                    I highly doubt Scouters go around spouting gay hate speech in the course of doing their duty any more than they spout racial or religious hatred. Sure, there are likely those who feel that way. But I think most Scouters, regardless of their feelings on the subject, spout hate speech or actions in front of scouts.

                    Comment


                    • #13
                      I didn't get the email and no one I know did either. I'm happy about that, but very disappointed in the fact that such an overwhelming majority of leaders and parents are in favor of keeping the ban. The ones I work with directly seem to be pretty much on the side of letting gays in at all levels. Now, I don't see that happening in the near future. I fear the vote will be in favor of keeping the status quo. I guess I could live with that, but knowing all these other Scouters feel the way they do makes me uncomfortable. I will probably continue as a Scouter, but will never feel quite the same about Scouting again.

                      Comment


                      • #14
                        Kahuna, either we will keep things as they are, or allow homosexual scouts. People will be unhappy either way. Even if we allow in homosexual scouts, some people will be still be unsatisfied because we won't allow homosexual or bisexual or transvestite adult leaders. Other people will be unhappy because we don't allow in atheists. Others will be unhappy because we don't allow girls in as scouts. Others will be unhappy because we don't allow scouts to use medical marijuana in summer camp. Others will be unhappy because we won't let someone with a past felony conviction become a scout leader. There are always new causes, and new groups advocating those causes, on the horizon. The BSA occupies the precarious position of being seen as a National Institution, along with Mom and Apple Pie, so any group seeking validation will always advocate for inclusion or change of policy to accommodate them. Sometimes that will be appropriate, other times not, and we will all unfortunately have to disagree on some of those.

                        I don't belong to any group with whose policies I am in complete agreement. Because every group is made up of other humans who also think (as I do) that they know best how to run things, there will always be disagreements. If new policies make the group unsafe for youths, legally hazardous to me, or if they are immoral, I will leave. I'm still on the fence on the proposed new policy, tending towards retaining the old policy, which is workable and strikes the best balance for youth inclusion (DADT, without sexualizing or discussing scout's identities) without becoming mired in a legal morass. I get that others disagree with me, but the majority seem to favor my position at this time. We will never have a compromise or solution that makes everyone happy in our politically polarized society. Never. Things may change over the years with a new generation coming in, but most people also tend to become more conservative as they age, so public opinion may not change as much as some think, and recent history has shown us that the public opinion on some liberal positions (and some conservative opinions, to be honest) that once seemed certain to become the dominant mode of thought in society have, in fact, reversed themselves, so nothing is certain. Today's Scouts will also be tomorrows Scouters, so the same process will apply to them. Certainly, my views were more liberal when they I was younger, but people change and evolve.

                        Certain politically liberal regions of the country may have a loss in membership if the new policy doesn't pass, and certain politically conservative regions may take a larger hit if the new policy does pass, but in most cases, personal inertia will be the guiding force and as long as people are generally happy with their son's involvement in Scouting and with the personal relationships they've formed in Scouting, I think the majority are likely to remain.

                        They may grumble, post angry forum messages, and wear rainbow kerchief slides or those little rainbow knots to broadcast their disappointment to whomever will notice, (or a "Does not Equal" symbol patch, or whatever) but I think most people will be okay with the status quo, or the new proposal. If the new proposal is the foot in the door that causes radical changes within the organization that some fear (mandatory gay sensitivity training in adult leader training or NYLT, gay scout participation in Gay Pride parades as in Canada, etc.), then yes, expect a lot of people to start leaving.

                        Comment


                        • Kahuna
                          Kahuna commented
                          Editing a comment
                          All of which is why I will likely stay on Scouting, although my feelings about my fellow Scouters will not be quite the same as they were. Of course, they really haven't been the same for a while now, because the people in Scouting are not the same. I shouldn't be surprised, since society has changed so much, that people in Scouting change too. What it really comes down to for me is, how can I help boys (nothing against girls, they just aren't what this program is about) to become better men and better citizens.

                      • #15
                        Well then it seems it must have been sent out by a local guy, or some group targeting specific Councils.. Everyone I have asked got the emails, of course I only asked those in district or council I did not ask the unit level scouters. So someone could have pulled our email off the council website, or, they have access to the council list through other means.. Don't know why they would hit a northern Council with it, it only will anger us in the opposite direction then where they want to push us.


                        Krumpus you haven't been watching the news have you?.. There are scouters in uniform standing in open public squares spreading these hate messages with signs and public speechs. With kids all around them, be it youth scouts or just youths with their parents passing by a public place


                        Comment


                        • AZMike
                          AZMike commented
                          Editing a comment
                          "No member may use Scouting to promote or advance any social or political position or agenda"

                          KingDingDong and skeptic,, would you also interpret the proposal to mean you shouldn't wear accessories reflecting a political agenda on the Scout uniform (political campaign buttons, rainbow knots, rainbow kerchief slides, patches supporting - or advocating against - LGBT inclusion, etc.)? Does the new resolution support removal from scouting for those that violate this rule?

                        • packsaddle
                          packsaddle commented
                          Editing a comment
                          AZMike, as it has been explained to me by council, we have ALWAYS been subject to removal if we engaged in activities like that, even wearing little rainbow things on the uniform.According to that particular SE, BSA has always had the option of using that means to remove speech. So...fair is fair.

                        • King Ding Dong
                          King Ding Dong commented
                          Editing a comment
                          I would follow the Insignia Guide. Campaign buttons and patches outside the temporary location are not allowed. There is no restriction on slides.

                          You raise an interesting point because there is a certain amount of individualism allowed on the uniform. If a rainbow slide were allowed, would an aborted fetus slide be allowed ? Extreme example, but not implausible. Or a "God hates fags" temporary patch. In the case of patches the BSA could certainly start enforcing its current rule against non-BSA sanctioned patches on the uniform. The slides and neckerchiefs I am not sure about.

                          I suppose I would support banning symbols that are commonly used to portray issues that are really outside the purview of Scouting.

                          I think removal from scouting is a last resort for those that after warnings refuse to comply with National rules.
                      Working...
                      X